I am GM'ing for a group of 6 people and we have decided (as a group) that we would play a light side based campaign for F&D. So far everyone in the group is going to start their character with either 50 morality, or as a paragon of light with 71 morality, both work well for a group starting out.

I have one person who want's to start as a dark side force user, and the main problem I have with that is his reasoning behind why he wants to. He originally setup his character as having 50 morality, knowing he would probably fall to the dark side and then try to redeem himself as the story progresses. After the group decided to not start at the Knight level, and instead power level through 3 sessions to gain their lightsabers, a mentor, and a base of operations, he decided that he didn't like not having the extra XP that would have been given to him at Knight level so he decided to go dark.

His main reasons for going to the dark side are:

1. Have more wound threshold, and he doesn't want to be a weakling and die right away (he is setup to use Presence as his lightsaber skill, not Brawn, so his wound threshold will be lower than normal)

2. He wants the additional XP to use during the setup of his skills and characteristics

3. He is frustrated that things are going the way he wants them to (even though the group decided to play this way) so he is saying things like, "why should I even have my setup like it is right now at all if I don't have a lightsaber, I might as well just put all my XP into using blasters."

This is making things very difficult for me because I was going to start with the BG, BG expansion, the game in the back of the CRB, and the game from the GM pack...if you play through these they basically will walk you through getting everything you need within the first few sessions. Since he is not getting his way and is frustrated that he isn't getting the XP and everything he is causing problems for me, and this person has been known to try and mess with things in the past to get me going a bit.

I have already told this player that his reasons are ill-founded because there won't be a ton of fighting action until after the lightsabers are created, everything is scaled down in difficult because everyone is just starting out, and he is thinking more about the present instead of the future of his character...he will gain a lot of XP and will have a lightsaber within 3 sessions so it won't be that long to get going.

TL;DR - 1 player wants to be dark side for reasons that don't make sense and I feel he is trying to mess with me because he has done so in the past

What would you do in this situation?

What extra XP? If he chooses 29 morality, he won't have any of the extra XP to burn. He also won't gain a benefit to his wounds until he drops below 20 Morality (per p. 49). If his intention is to start dark and then redeem himself, he will never see those benefits (per p. 52-3). Did he also agree to playing a LS campaign with everybody else, then drop the character concept on your lap? Because if he did agree, and everybody knows he agreed, then you have every right to tell him to start again.

Off topic: if you play the beginner box, you dont need to play the adventures in the corebook and GM kit. PC can already gain a lightsaber in Lure of Darkness.

On topic: invite him to leave your game if what you are planning doesn't satisfy his expectation

Blackbird: If I understand the story, I think the player agree because he thought they will play at Knight Level but now he is angry because that's not the case.

Give them a slap.

They need one.

Off topic: if you play the beginner box, you dont need to play the adventures in the corebook and GM kit. PC can already gain a lightsaber in Lure of Darkness.

Story. Just swap the rewards out and you still have 4 adventures worth of sessions.

Blackbird: If I understand the story, I think the player agree because he thought they will play at Knight Level but now he is angry because that's not the case.

That depends on whether or not Knight Level was a sure thing to begin with or an up in the air possibility. And the player's choice to go dark side doesn't make sense if XP is his worry, because, per RAW, he forgoes 5 or 10 XP for -21 Morality, and his justification of needing the extra Wounds doesn't make sense if he plans to redeem the character, because he would have to spend a few sessions willingly lowering his Morality to get those benefits in the first place. And then what, start going light and lose that benefit a session later?

Tell him to stay home.

Sounds like he is throwing a tantrum.

I can understand a player being frustrated if the 'rules' for character generation kept changing and now he feels like he can't create the charcter he wanted to at the beginning...but it looks like he's handling that poorly.

As already stated - taking the lower Morality option means you do NOT get bonus XP.

Why does he want to start dark side instead of doing it after start as he was originally planning with Knight Level play?

Seems like he can do the same thing but he's just starting out with less XP and no lightsaber?...

Maybe approach him by saying that you (and the other players) are putting trust in him that he's not going to jerk the group around by playing a 'darksider who goes lightside' character arc and that for the game to work he needs to trust you that the game is going to be fun, he'll get a lightsaber soon, and his character concept will be supported but it may require a few sessions build up.

Everyone is going to have to grow into their character - which is what one would normally expect in an RPG. And it's not uncommon to have a wide disparity between starting character and character concept either.

After going back and looking into it further, I see that Blackbird is correct. The + 5 or 10 XP is one choice and the +/- 21 morality is another so that point is moot.

So the person who is having the tantrum is one of my best friends, unfortunately he does seem to excel at trying to mess with me during the game at times. I am getting very frustrated with him because that attitude isn't the best when it comes to being productive when we play. He just told me that he will conform but he acted very childish about it..."why even bother trying to do what I want when you are just going to say no anyways..."

I let him know if he can talk to me about it and come up with a backstory and how he will plan on redeeming himself, then we can move forward, but if he is going to put everyone at odds and backstab the whole group then we can't have that happen.

How old is this person?

How old is this person?

Old enough to know better and not act like a child.

3. He is frustrated that things are going the way he wants them to (even though the group decided to play this way) so he is saying things like, "why should I even have my setup like it is right now at all if I don't have a lightsaber, I might as well just put all my XP into using blasters."

Just to err on the side of caution:

Are you adding any rules, restrictions, prerequisites, or limitations on lightsaber acquisition? I'm assuming not, but I think in fairness I should ask as some GMs like to make sabers hard to get.

How fast are you getting lightsabers? The official adventures seems to have the players getting sabers within 2 or 3 adventures tops. Are you sticking to that formula? If so you might just be willing ot say "Hey, you'll all be getting lightsabers a couple adventures in, so don't be afraid to put XP in it if that's your thing."

How fast are you getting lightsabers? The official adventures seems to have the players getting sabers within 2 or 3 adventures tops. Are you sticking to that formula? If so you might just be willing ot say "Hey, you'll all be getting lightsabers a couple adventures in, so don't be afraid to put XP in it if that's your thing."

My plan was within 2-3 sessions they would be essentially at Knight level. They all wanted to start with the extra 150XP, but I wanted everyone to learn about their characters and help them discover how they will start using the Force and what they can do without lightsabers. So as a compromise, I told them that we will start at the base level of XP, then for the first 3 missions everyone will gain 50XP so we can be to the 150XP mark and then afterwards we would slow back down and go to the 15-20XP per session/adventure that we were planning on.

How old is this person?

Old enough to know better and not act like a child.

Then I fall back to post #6 in this thread....

I am on the, "Tell him he can stay home", side. I do not cater to single player desires that effect the whole group.

I especially don't put up with Tantrums or Whineyness because your not getting your way.

Put it plain to him. "The group decided this. You can either accept it or Not play, but you are not going to ruin the fun for everyone else. Continue to behave this way, and I will make the choice for you."

You are, of course, free to use as much or less tact than I.

In the end, especially since he is "Pushing against the grain", sounds like he Likes to be the focus of attention.

Drama Queen alert.

If he isn't willing to accept the groups call on this, I wouldn't put up with him personally. It really sounds like he intended to be a problem for the group, so the group would have to focus on him from the start.

I tell my players right away in "session 0" what sort of game I want to run, including themes and such. If I want to run a more heroic game, I let them know. And I tell them, if they can't play that or don't want to play that, then don't play. Of course, their input is always welcome as well.

Has anyone rules that if your character's Morality goes below 20 through their deliberate actions that character will become an npc from then on?

Just remembering something from WEG Star Wars along those lines was wondering if anyone had used that as away to prevent what's been mentioned in this thread?

I ended up talking to him about this and he is saying he will conform and doesn't want to argue about it anymore. I have a feeling that this will come out when he is playing, because when things have gone badly for his character in the past he would usually tend to stop roleplaying as much and kind of dismiss himself from what the group is doing (go hide in the ship to "scan the area" for 30 minutes).

Since we started playing EotE about a year ago he is the one person I have had the most problems with, but the problem is that he is the one who brought me into this group of friends...I was in his wedding last year...we are really close but it makes me really frustrated when I tell him I don't want any of that "f**k with the GM" attitude he had at times in the last campaign, and then have something like this come up. I have a feeling if I "invite him not to play" then that will put even more of a strain on the group because we are all friends.

I did reiterate that everyone will have their 150XP by the 3rd session as well as their lightsaber and just about everything else the group needs. He does seem defeated right now because he didn't get what he wanted, but hopefully this doesn't translate into a negative when playing like it did before.

Just play the game, if he chooses to have a sh*tty time, that's on him. Don't worry about what he thinks, just put on a good game and I bet he'll come around if everyone is having fun.

Slightly OT but six players is an awful lot of players. I typically cap my games at 4 players plus GM. Otherwise the risk of player boredom becomes a very real threat with a lack of spotlight time.

Slightly OT but six players is an awful lot of players. I typically cap my games at 4 players plus GM. Otherwise the risk of player boredom becomes a very real threat with a lack of spotlight time.

That is true, I have only played with 4 players thus far, but now one of my other friends wants to join as well as a coworker of a current player so it's creepin' up. I run our sessions a bit lighter than some probably do, we still joke around a bit and consume copious amounts of alcohol throughout the night, so it's not as hardcore as some. I was debating on asking if people wanted to split it up into 2 campaigns, where I GM one of them and someone else GM's the other but I don't think everyone involved has that kind of availability especially if there were a couple of crossovers...

Slightly OT but six players is an awful lot of players. I typically cap my games at 4 players plus GM. Otherwise the risk of player boredom becomes a very real threat with a lack of spotlight time.

Again, a Matter of opinion, preference, Gm skill, and group dynamic. This may be true for you but not all.

My Star wars group has 7 players and they have a Great time.

I regularly run for tables(on and offline) of at least 6.

It seems he is demonstrating (As a player) a great reason for starting dark side. He is frustrated that he isn't as powerful as he should be, this player frustration will serve him well in playing a darkside character.

I am also about to start a F&D game and alot of my players have jumped on the lightsaber talent trees during character creation. I realised this and told them it's probably better to choose a diffeent starting tree as lightsabers won't be accessible until about Knight level play. Maybe over your player a "do-over" and see if you can get him a character he can enjoy so that your sessions run smoother.

If he still continues to be disruptive then I would ask him to leave the group.

That's an interesting idea.

Still interested in finding out what happened next even if only in case it ever happens to me.

What is the background for the game you're trying to start?

Are we talking KOTOR, Dark Times or just after the Battle of Yavin?

Just wondering how he planned on explaining his character's darkside fall...