I've had the TIE/fo on the brain for a couple weeks now, and finally got the chance to run it. I put three Zetas in with an old standby of mine, a souped up Rexler Brath (HLC, Hull Upgrade, Predator). These would take the place of 4 Academy Pilots that often accompany this build. I ran it against quad TLT Unhinged Thugs and Glitterstim/Crack Shot/HLC Brobots (A&B).

A few overall first impressions:

On Zetas vs Academies in a general comparison:

48 points vs 48 points

PS3 vs PS1

12 hit points (3 shields) vs 12 hit points (0 shields) -Although the extra kill shot required to kill the Academies generally makes up for the lack of shields

Green 2-turns + Red 2 S-loops vs a Red 3 K-turn

Generally, the first round of engagement firepower was the same in these squads, because an Academy dies pretty commonly before it gets to shoot. A Zeta died less frequently thanks to that extra shield, but it still happens. Obviously against PS2 stuff, the Zetas are always going to get shots off, which helps.

Academies make fundamentally better blockers, because of lower PS and the extra ship, but are actually a little harder to plan for subsequent turns, because the one you want alive to block next turn is more likely to die. The maneuverability of TIEs prevents this from being a major concern, though.

The 2-speed S-loops are great at knife-fight range, which is where I like my TIE Fighters (and TIE/fos are still TIE fighters in my book). It gives you that many more options for turning around, and often blocking while turning around. In a lot of situations, it keeps them closer to their targets than a 3- or 4- K-turn, increasing their average damage dealt. This great move is compounded in its goodness by the fact that you can clear stress with a 2-turn, so these little guys stay in the fight that much better. They ended up having a better "on target" time, or duty cycle, than the Academies.

The increased durability and duty cycle of the Zetas was pretty close to making up for the overall decreased offense compared to the Academies.

I tend to like to fly my TIE Fighters in very loose formation. I'm not sure that a lot of the FO advantages I've stated would hold up in a Howlrunner miniswarm (or even regular swarm) formation.

Thoughts vs. these two specific lists:

vs. TLT Thugs:

The 3 Zetas were great compared to 4 Academies in this specific matchup. The PS was obviously a huge advantage to both fire first and dodge into the Range 1 bubble with Barrel Roll. In the end game or if the formation broke up, I could generally rely on a single FO taking out a TLT Thug, despite being worth about 2/3rds the points. A minor advantage was in durability. Poor dice could see an Academy taken off the board with shots from 2 TLT carriers. While this could happen to the Zeta as well, it would get its shot in, and the extra hit point meant that I only needed one attack from the TLT to go my way in order to either survive or suck up fire from a 3rd TLT.

vs. Brobots:

In this particular Brobot build, the extra hit point of the Zetas made it more likely that the second Aggressor had to fire at the same target in order to kill the ship. This sometimes translated into better defense over time, despite having one less ship. The extra Academy would have been quite useful as a blocker, though, and the PS loss would have had no downside. The 2-speed S-loops are game-changers against Brobots. The big base in a lot of approaches can easily block both 3- and 4-speed K-turns of the TIE/ln. The 2-speed S-loops of the TIE/FO were amazing both because they were easier to pull off, and because they could block some moves and put guns on target against different moves from the same ship. That's a pretty sweet option to have, and something I wasn't expecting when I first threw the FOs in the list.

Those are some of my initial impressions with the Empire's new TIEs, but I know there are people that have been running them much more than I have, and I'm interested in hearing their (and everyone else's) thoughts.

the complete range-2-band is pretty genius on the FO. I really like to fly them.

they won't "kill the swarm", but they complement it nicely here and there.

also: a red segnors/koio followed by hard2 (green!) with a roll can block a lot of things 2 turns in a row. it's a very fun blocker in a big 'everyone bumps'crowd.

the complete range-2-band is pretty genius on the FO. I really like to fly them.

they won't "kill the swarm", but they complement it nicely here and there.

also: a red segnors/koio followed by hard2 (green!) with a roll can block a lot of things 2 turns in a row. it's a very fun blocker in a big 'everyone bumps'crowd.

Yeah, I'm not even sure I consider it a swarmer. It's advantages in maneuverability and durability don't make up for the loss of offense in massed formations, I think. It's more of a solid filler ship. You don't mind losing it, and it will fit just fine if the points work out in your squad. It's kind of an alternative to mid-tier named TIE Fighters (Dark Curse, Backstabber, Night Beast, Blackshots). Tougher, lower PS for the points, no special ability, but some cool dial options. Not really right or wrong, just different.

I've run them a few times since they arrived, and I play against a guy who plays them a lot (with Whisper).

That S-loop is really the /fo's saving grace, in my book. If you're thinking of taking just one basic /fo to round off a list, I find it hard to justify it over backstabber, or an academy + EU for some lucky ship. If you're taking some en masse, to escort an ace, as you did Bio, then I think they start to shine, as the arcs and blocks they can make in a packed knife fight are very impressive.

The only pilot that I've found to stir the embers of my bitter cynic's heart has been Omega ace, who brings a new kind of menace to the table, in my opinion. For 23pts you get yourself a really flexible ship - it shoots with such accuracy that it's not to be trifled with at range, and genuinely scares with the prospect of a range-1 encounter.

I've had some decent results with the following, slightly gimmicky, list:

================== The Knife Fighters ==================

“Omega Ace” (24) TIE/fo Fighter (20), Push the Limit (3), Twin Ion Engine Mk. II (1)

Carnor Jax (34) TIE Interceptor (26), Push the Limit (3), Royal Guard TIE (0), Autothrusters (2), Stealth Device (3)

“Whisper” (42) TIE Phantom (32), Mara Jade (3), Fire-Control System (2), Veteran Instincts (1), Advanced Cloaking Device (4)

It's a pretty brutal trio, who are capable of causing havoc at close range. To be honest, I don't know if it's good enough, but it's certainly in consideration for my next store tourney. The Omega has a big role to play, profiting from the debilitating effects of it's wingmen, and tends to be generally ignored, which is just the way it likes it.

Finally, I'm really looking forward to seeing what Juke&comm relay can do for this little ship. The potential is there, let's see

This kind of thing looks quite natty for the juke/relay combo, I was thinking...

Omega Squadron Pilot (22) x 3 TIE/fo Fighter (17), Comm Relay (3), Juke (2)

Carnor Jax (34) TIE Interceptor (26), Push the Limit (3), Royal Guard TIE (0), Autothrusters (2), Stealth Device (3)

I've still only worked with the named pilots, in order of frequency

Zeta Ace -- lovely little pain in the ass; worth the one point over Omega Squadron every time imo

Omega Leader (proxy) -- pocket ace is legit; highly recommended. Amazing little late game piece for lists that usually lack it (such as swarms or mini-swarms)

Epislon Leader -- have only run with Omega + howlie + 3 obsidian swarm. Shenanigans are real, and the manuevering flexibility you get from stress ditching is almost impossible to believe until you've put it on the table

Omega Ace -- flew in a tournie with 3 Scimitars (homing, seismics, extra munis) because Leader isn't out yet. Basically wished he was Omega Leader the whole time. Ability never triggered, as it either made full hits anyway or was purposed entirely as a glorified Omega Squadron

I agree 100% on the S-loop. The extra greens and shield and Target Lock are nice, but that S-loop is what makes it something special in its own right. I kept surprising myself with the awesomeness of the moves the thing could pull. I actually started my list looking at it as a 3-ship list with 2 souped up TIE/fos to compliment the souped up Defender. I tried Zeta Ace + Omega Ace, each with PTL (instantly fell in love with Zeta Ace, by the way). I liked it well enough, but didn't use the S-loops because of stress from PTL, and Omega Ace wasn't really doing much for me. Like FGD, I found that I really wanted to run Omega Leader, but didn't really want to proxy, because he's not out, and I figured I should try generics out anyway. I also found that any above baseline TIE/fo really wanted Comm Relay and Juke, in my book, at least. It gives (sort of) action-free durability and offensive power, which are needed for the points.

In the specific squad I ran, they are crazy knife fighters. 3 + Rex seemed like just the right number of ships when things got close. One could be a dedicated blocker (often banking a Target Lock for later), and two would try and get shots. Against the PS6 Brobots, some times one would occupy space nearby Rexler's 4K territory, keeping it clear of an Aggressor blocking him, but leaving room for the Defender to turn around. A lot of this stuff can be accomplished by good old TIE/lns, but I can't really overstate the usefulness of the 2-Sloop and subsequent green 2-turn in those knife-fighting situations.

Speaking of good old interceptors, has anyone tried out their cheaper model, the sabre, with crackshot, coming in at 22pts? Strikes me that it would open up a whole new role for the lovely ship - cheap, dangerous alpha strikers...

Back to the /fo, again, crackshot seems a great fit here. I was also trying to evaluate the worth of weapons guidance on the /fo - it seems a good fit to me. Low ps, so you're more likely to have a focus left at the end of the round, and low attack, meaning you're more likely to throw a handful of red die with no eyes showing, making it a great tech card. You could run an omega with crackshot and weapons guidance for 20pts...

Speaking of good old interceptors, has anyone tried out their cheaper model, the sabre, with crackshot, coming in at 22pts? Strikes me that it would open up a whole new role for the lovely ship - cheap, dangerous alpha strikers...

Back to the /fo, again, crackshot seems a great fit here. I was also trying to evaluate the worth of weapons guidance on the /fo - it seems a good fit to me. Low ps, so you're more likely to have a focus left at the end of the round, and low attack, meaning you're more likely to throw a handful of red die with no eyes showing, making it a great tech card. You could run an omega with crackshot and weapons guidance for 20pts...

The question is Weapons guidance and crack shot for 20, for a 1 use and a focus-required buffs, or Comm Relay and Juke, 22 points for a repeated use almost-crackshot and a regenerating extra shield.

Agreed Rakaydos - it's a lovely looking combo, but you can't squeeze five in a list...

I'm not a huge fan of the Sabre with Crackshot just because it's no tougher than the Blackshot and 7 points more. You could do Autothrusters, but then you're at even more points.

All that being said, maybe it's main use in a swarm would be as a shield breaker to push through Stealth Devices easier than even a couple Blacks would.

I don't have a well formed opinion on upgrades for Omegas. I know I like Juke + Comm Relay, I think it's a great 22 points. I'm also pretty okay with an 18 point Omega (pilot + any number of 1 point EPTs). It's that 2-4 point range up upgrades that I'm not sure about. I feel like at 21 points, maybe you just take a Tempest. 19 is Zeta Ace + and EPT. 20? No clear favorites for me.

The more I'm thinking about the 20 point window, I don't think it matters in regards to a 5-FO list. If I'm taking 5 FOs, I'm taking 26 points of Omega Leader first (Juke and Comm Relay), then averaging 74 points across the rest of the 4. That could be 4 Crackshot Omegas with 2 points left for some extras. Could also be 2 Epsilons and 2 Omegas with Juke and Relay.

Yep, I think you're right on the money there about the irrelevance of that idea, Bio.

This thread is giving me some good ideas to try out though, so I may try the omega squadron with both guidance/crackshot and a proxied relay/juke, to see how they fare against a few lists.

One thing that I noticed a while ago was that the 4th hit point on the TIE/fo seemed to result in people being less willing to take shots at them vs. TIE/ln APs (in a list of aces mixed with low PS blockers). It might have been just different opponents for the games, but it felt consistent.

I think that APs just have a reputation for being easy to pop that isn't shared with the /fo.

Im excited as anyone for the Omega Leader, but a bit disappointed that Omega Ace doesnt seem to have performed well in a few players eyes. I really like the idea of him with PtL and swooping in to range one for the three crit nastiness and Im planning to take him to a store tourney on Sunday. (Only as a reinforcement piece, as he fits perfectly into the max points of 23 in this rule set) Perhaps I should take a Storm Squadron Advanced with title and accuracy corrector instead?

Omega Ace w/Comm Relay and PTL is goinng to be a decent value for 26 points. The TLs and Evade tokens can be picked up when it's convenient making PTL something that doesn't need to get used every turn. Grab a TL and hang on to it until he gets a range one shot. All turtled up with a focus+evade he'll be fairly durable and his ability is good enough in range one that he can't just be ignored.

Can I recommend Col. Vessery w/ VI and 4 Epsilon Pilots? Their TL do greatly help Col. Vessery a lot. The low PS works like the Academy Pilots, but you get the extra shield and the S-loop. It's very nice.

One thing that I noticed a while ago was that the 4th hit point on the TIE/fo seemed to result in people being less willing to take shots at them vs. TIE/ln APs (in a list of aces mixed with low PS blockers). It might have been just different opponents for the games, but it felt consistent.I think that APs just have a reputation for being easy to pop that isn't shared with the /fo.

I found myself sending the FOs in first on several occasions. That way they would be setting up the blocks and getting short range when Rex first engaged at long range. That tended to shift proliority to them, as once blocking was in play, I could avoid taking shots with Rex a bit better. Not really enough games to get a good general sense of this, though.

Im excited as anyone for the Omega Leader, but a bit disappointed that Omega Ace doesnt seem to have performed well in a few players eyes. I really like the idea of him with PtL and swooping in to range one for the three crit nastiness and Im planning to take him to a store tourney on Sunday. (Only as a reinforcement piece, as he fits perfectly into the max points of 23 in this rule set) Perhaps I should take a Storm Squadron Advanced with title and accuracy corrector instead?

He seems pretty solid against lower PS stuff with lots of hull. So in our Y-wing meta it seems decent.

I got the chance to play Zeta Squadron x3 + Obsidian x4 (100 points) at League last night. I am not a strong swarm player. I've been playing since Wave 1, but this was maybe my third or fourth game with more than five ships.

At league, we play two games: first game is against an assigned player, with special rules (this week: "at least five ships") and second game is a standard dogfight against anyone who'll accept your challenge.

I played the standard dogfight first, and (like me), he just used his "special five+ ships" list: Prototype x2, Blue x2, Gold TLT Stresshog.

This was a very close game. It ended at time. He had a 3-die naked Prototype shot on a 2-HP Obsidian at the end. He whiffed, but had he killed that Obsidian, he would have won by 1 point. (I ended up with Zeta and Obsidian x2 left; he had both A-wings alive.)

In the other game, I played Drew (14th at Worlds). He had two Cutlasses loaded with Plasma Torps and Seismics, two Blacks with Crackshot, and one naked Black. He had no real choice but to joust me, and I target one of the Cutlasses for elimination. When he didn't kill a TIE with his three Blacks, I knew I'd won. It took five shots to kill the Cutlass. Drew ended up killing two Obsidians. (He got 4 damage on me from Seismics, but it was spread out.)

In general, the Fo' Fighter's shield and Segnor-2 is easily worth 3 points. The ability to S-Loop or K-Turn really kept my swarm out of its own way, and the shield stopped at least three crits in the two games Then you add in the green 2-Turn, the TL action, and the Tech slot, and the Zeta is money for sure. But with a caveat:

You need to mix the Fo' Fighters in with standard TIEs in order to get a true swarm. While low-PS TLTs are in vogue, I think the Zeta/Obsidian mix is best. Once people realize that TLT-spam is not a truly winning list, other mixes will open up.

Now I'm probably channeling my inner ParaGoomba here, but say I'm attacking a Fat Falcon I have target locked with my Omega Leader and Falcon player declares a zero roll with 3P0. I remind him he cannot modify his defence dice because of OL's pilot ability, but has 3P0 been burnt for the round because he declared it?

Similarly can tokens be spent even though the dice cannot be modified by them?

Token spending is under dice modification in the rule book. So no Evade tokens.

Yeah I understand but what Im getting at is, can an opponent waste tokens or once a round abilities by declaring them even though they will have no effect, or is the whole modify dice step skipped?

The FAQ recently clarified tokens could be spent even if the required symbols were not rolled. (I guess to buff abilities like Garvan Dreis') and this seems like it could be the flip side of that?

From my current experience, I really like the Tie/FO. I think they complete list really well. I have not yet tried them in a swarm form, since I didn't buy a second FA core set (but will in 2 weeks with my Wave 2 Armada stuff), but for 30 points, I love to include 2 Epsilon as filler/blockers. It leaves 70 pts for the central pieces.

They have a great dial (that segnor loop 2 and hard 2 green) and the shield really help. Maybe I've just been lucky, but there has been a lot of time where I had only one hull left on my Tie and kept flying. That would not be the case with a standard Tie Academy.

Zeta Ace with PtL has also done the job: A cheap Tie Interceptor with a big barrel roll.

I'm very pleased with the ship and can't wait to get my hand on my second Core Set and expension packs to run more of those in a team!

Yeah I understand but what Im getting at is, can an opponent waste tokens or once a round abilities by declaring them even though they will have no effect, or is the whole modify dice step skipped?

The FAQ recently clarified tokens could be spent even if the required symbols were not rolled. (I guess to buff abilities like Garvan Dreis') and this seems like it could be the flip side of that?

Tokens can be spent even if they would have no effect. Only time this is not true is if another effect (lie Jax's ability) keeps one from spending the token.

Yeah I understand but what Im getting at is, can an opponent waste tokens or once a round abilities by declaring them even though they will have no effect, or is the whole modify dice step skipped?

The FAQ recently clarified tokens could be spent even if the required symbols were not rolled. (I guess to buff abilities like Garvan Dreis') and this seems like it could be the flip side of that?

Tokens can be spent even if they would have no effect. Only time this is not true is if another effect (lie Jax's ability) keeps one from spending the token.

Hmm... I think back to your original question, which I think I now understand, they probably can't even try to use 3p0 or spend tokens in the first place. Omega Leader says they may not modify dice, not that dice modifications have no effect.