I ran into this list recently and like it a lot. I've tried the same thing with Soontir, but I think Vader works well here since he's higher damage to go with the aggressive Crack Shot mini-swarm.

Darth Vader + Veteran Instincts + TIE/x1 + Advanced Targeting Computer + Engine Upgrade (35)

Howlrunner + Crack Shot (19)

Black Squadron Pilot + Crack Shot (15)

Black Squadron Pilot + Crack Shot (15)

Black Squadron Pilot + Crack Shot (15)

You have a mini swarm that's happy to joust just about anything plus an ace at PS 11 who can outmaneuver enemy aces.

What would counter this list?

I have been exploring similar lists, although I am not sure that Howlrunner is strictly necessary, vs. the fourth BSP. Not taking Howl opens up the possibility of adding Homing Missile to Vader, or if you prefer, Predator. (I myself much prefer VI).

As for possible counters, I think stress and bumping are the main ones. When flying Vader you need to balance both offence and defence, for example, barrel rolling into or out of range, or taking the odd evade token rather than a focus, and trusting your ATC to keep up the offence. In any case, one should be mindful of the fact that as long as Vader is alive, you have a very good shot.

I ran into this list recently and like it a lot. I've tried the same thing with Soontir, but I think Vader works well here since he's higher damage to go with the aggressive Crack Shot mini-swarm.

Darth Vader + Veteran Instincts + TIE/x1 + Advanced Targeting Computer + Engine Upgrade (35)

Howlrunner + Crack Shot (19)

Black Squadron Pilot + Crack Shot (15)

Black Squadron Pilot + Crack Shot (15)

Black Squadron Pilot + Crack Shot (15)

You have a mini swarm that's happy to joust just about anything plus an ace at PS 11 who can outmaneuver enemy aces.

What would counter this list?

TLT's....get in close and fast and slaughter em....Vaders hates TLT's.......but of course, you probably knew that already....

TLT's....get in close and fast and slaughter em....Vaders hates TLT's.......but of course, you probably knew that already....

Yeah, Soontir would be better vs. TLT. Still not quite sure on who's better overall as the ace in this list.

Another option for this: Jousting Vader! aka Vader joins the swarm!

Darth Vader + Crack Shot + TIE/x1 + Advanced Targeting Computer (31)

Howlrunner + Crack Shot + Shield Upgrade (23)

Black Squadron Pilot + Crack Shot (15)

Another option for this: Jousting Vader! aka Vader joins the swarm!

Darth Vader + Crack Shot + TIE/x1 + Advanced Targeting Computer (31)

Howlrunner + Crack Shot + Shield Upgrade (23)

Black Squadron Pilot + Crack Shot (15)

Black Squadron Pilot + Crack Shot (15)

Black Squadron Pilot + Crack Shot (15)

This trades Engine Upgrade and VI on Vader for Crack Shot plus a shield on Howl. Vader actually has amazing jousting efficiency, even more so when he joins the swarm next to Howlrunner. Another way to look at it is that it's a Crack Shot swarm, but you're trading two BSPs for Vader.

Is this a horrible idea? Is Vader always better flying as a solo ace with EU?

As for your list, I think the EU is worth much more than a Shield, even if you do fly Vader with the Swarm from the start. Vader needs to be able to chase and kill Soontir and Poe if needed

My experience is that Vader fits better with a mini-swarm than Fel, so I think the OP list is the best way to go.

With regards to twin lasers, well, you have 5 ships at PS 4 or higher. Fly your ships aggressively and try to wipe y-wings off the board before they shoot. You could also bring the TIE's in first and hang Vader back for one round, thus ensuring that howl dies first (but not Vader). This might result in a trade of 1 y-wing for howl (not bad at all). If you can get them down to 2 y-wings before Vader bites it, you should win easily. If not, might be tough, but still winnable thanks to your PS advantage

I have been exploring similar lists, although I am not sure that Howlrunner is strictly necessary, vs. the fourth BSP. Not taking Howl opens up the possibility of adding Homing Missile to Vader, or if you prefer, Predator. (I myself much prefer VI).

I would keep VI and add Prockets to Vader with the points from Howlrunner, and keep a 98 point bid. I would make this change if I were in a heavy Palp Aces meta, as the Crack Squadron Pilots don't need Howl as much to deal with Palpmobile, and the prockets will help Vader crack Soontir like an egg.

I've found this list does very well against TLT, Super Dash w/ Miranda, and any aces list with a 1pt initiative bid.

I start the Crack squad just off center with Vader about 1/4 off the opposite side edge. This allows great bait & switch with Vader and allows great blocking of the above lists.

I call it "Vader's Crack Addiction"

Darth Vader — TIE Advanced 29

Veteran Instincts 1

Proton Rockets 3

Advanced Targeting Computer 1

Engine Upgrade 4

TIE/x1 0

Ship Total: 38

x4 Black Squadron Pilot — TIE Fighter 14

Crack Shot 1

Ship Total: 15

I'm pretty sure one of the Kessel Run guys talked about running this list at Store Champs in a recent podcast and did very well with it.

The alpha strike potential of this list is amazing, went 7-0 in a SC with it this saturday and it EASILY chomps through a TLT Y-wing in the initial pass.

I'm pretty sure one of the Kessel Run guys talked about running this list at Store Champs in a recent podcast and did very well with it.

Yeah, that's actually what planted in my head to run this list. However, they did not discuss strategy, tactics, 'roid placement, or variants (to Howl or not to Howl) in any way. That's why I resurrected this thread: to see how others who were playing this archetype were flying it.

The alpha strike potential of this list is amazing, went 7-0 in a SC with it this saturday and it EASILY chomps through a TLT Y-wing in the initial pass.

How did you do setup/first few rounds? Did you keep Vader with the Swarm or split them up? How did you deal with different archetypes?

The way I've found the best success is lead with the Crack Swarm and flank with Vader. The Swarm cam have challenges against a really experienced BroBot or Aces player.

VI Poe with stressbot, crash the bot first. Hunt Poe with Vader. Wipe up the remnants.

Quad TLT, Swarm them, engaging Vader on 2nd or 3rd combat.

Aces, lead with Swarm, bait with Vader, make them pay either way.

Any 2-ship build, focus fire biggest threat.

I second this idea. Swarm and Vader do not necessarily run together. Much like the old Phantom + mini swarm it depends on what you play but Vader is a great flanking unit.

I've been playing this or small variations of this for a couple weeks now and have enjoyed it.

Do you think it could still work if i replaced Vader for Omega Leader, that would give room to upgrade the black squads to omega squads. The new Squad would look something like this:

Omega Leader (26 total)

- Com Relay

- Juke

Howlrunner (19 total)

- Crack Shot

Omega Squad Pilot (18 total) x3

- Crack Shot

Possible pros: Tie F/O have more hit points and can last a little longer than regular ties

- Still have an ace that you can run with the swarm or can split off and flank well

Cons: Loosing Vader's consistent damage output and pilot skill, the highest we'd have now is 8.

You could also cut down one of the omegas back to a black squad and then be able to put stealth device on OL.

Do you guys think this would work?

Is loosing a bit of damage output and pilot skill worth the extra survivability in the crack ties?

I've run an updated version of this list at a few store championships. Came in 2nd, then top 4, then finally won one this weekend (Apokalypse Gaming in San Jose, CA). The version I used is;

Darth Vader + TIE/x1 + Adv. Targeting Computer + Crack Shot (31)

Zeta leader + Wired (21)

Howlrunner + Crack Shot (19)

Black Squadron Pilot + Crack Shot (15)

Wampa (14)

The first two times I used Crack Shot instead of Wired on Zeta Leader -- still not sure which is better.

Everyone flies in formation until at least the first engagement -- things often have to break up after that, and then it's just a big furball. Anything slow and low agility (like Y-Wings) are easy fodder -- the list will consistently kill stresshogs before they get to shoot. Arc dodgers (especially large, boosting PWTs) are more challenging, but theres a lot of firepower to cripple them quickly if you guess right and get them in arc.