There is a psychological effect among gamers I like to call "Positive Opinion Spending" that afflicts miniatures gamers especially bad. The basic idea or emotional connection if you will is that because you spent a horrifically (stupid) amount of money on something, you must love it, otherwise you would be an idiot.

This is quite common among gamers of any sort, whether its PC games or board games... the idea that you can spend 50 bucks on something and than discover its terrible makes people feel like they have been cheated, so very often people who spent money on something will have a positive opinion of it just so they don't feel like a complete fool for having bought it in the first place. Typically the more expensive something is the longer the effect last, so you can imagine with an expensive hobby like Warhammer 40k that people spend thousands of dollars on... making the realization that its a sh*tty game is hard to swallow.

I say this up front because I know from personal experience that there is no talking to someone in the midst of over spending on 40k... They are in the army sort of speak and trying to convince them that there is a better alternative is a fools errand.

My suggestion is to simply wait them out. Many people eventually come to the natural conclusion about 40k on their own and quit, that's when you want to be there to introduce them to X-Wing.

I dunno, a lot of 40K gamers don't seem to know that there are better systems out there.

One thing I will say about 40K is that the IP is amazing. The models, while overpriced are pretty good (not outstanding, but the aesthetic is there). For me it's just the game itself.

If GW actually fixed, streamlined and balanced the game, my Raptors or Crimson Fists might leave their carry case.

I maintain that if GW released Sororitas plastics AND A Plastic thunderhawk at the same time, i'd buy one of each Sororitas blister, and forget the Space Marine players holy grail.

Alot of people got in when prices were more reasonable like me in 94 £60 got me a full space wolves 2nd ed force and I built it up gradually.

When you've played for 20 years that's a big thing to step away from.

Modern 40k is garbage but older editions were fun.

I think 40k gamers are perfectly aware of whats out there... 40k gamers aren't some how different than normal gamers... its no like some sort of cult or something.

I think the basic principle behind 40k is that its a hobby in its own right while games like X-Wing are just that games. I mean you buy the miniatures and you play with them.. there really isn't that much more to it.

40k is a very elborate hobby of collecting, putting together, painting... its ... part art form part game. I think thats why so many people are into 40k but dont actually play the game that often.

Amen Hobo, the older editions were home to the both of us...

Big Kahuna Burger: Realistically - it's because the IP is awesome.

Oh I still like the setting loads but can't support the company it belongs to anymore.

And if people on warseer like Hastings are right then that setting will go the way of the warhammer world as they pull the same crap as age of sigmar.

If they did any customer surveys they'd know people don't like or play unbound, a game with no points or build restrictions is the last thing 40k players want.

Yeah, they want the polar opposite.

Amen Hobo, the older editions were home to the both of us...

Big Kahuna Burger: Realistically - it's because the IP is awesome.

Its awesomeness is subject to opinion. I think 40k for more than plenty of people is a matter of habit than hobby. I know quite a few current and former 40k players and the sentiment is the same. People want the game to be more than it actually is, in large part, as a game 40k is a disappointment. Its extraordinarily rare to hear anyone say anything positive about 40k as a game.

Yes, the game is weak. But i've had many a fine debate on the true nature of Chaos, or the origins of the hive mind, or of Cypher.

There is a psychological effect among gamers I like to call "Positive Opinion Spending" that afflicts miniatures gamers especially bad. The basic idea or emotional connection if you will is that because you spent a horrifically (stupid) amount of money on something, you must love it, otherwise you would be an idiot.

This is quite common among gamers of any sort, whether its PC games or board games... the idea that you can spend 50 bucks on something and than discover its terrible makes people feel like they have been cheated, so very often people who spent money on something will have a positive opinion of it just so they don't feel like a complete fool for having bought it in the first place. Typically the more expensive something is the longer the effect last, so you can imagine with an expensive hobby like Warhammer 40k that people spend thousands of dollars on... making the realization that its a sh*tty game is hard to swallow.

Best way to get a 40K player into x-wing. Show them the price. The starter box is less than the three ships it comes with, it has everything you need in the box, not just quick rules. A GW box, costs as much as the individual kits put together (no savings). You also get the rule book, movement templates, obstacles, well, everything you need to play in the starter box. Not an extra 50 rule book for your army, tape measure, and so on. Also, for 15 USD, you get a great looking, pre painted mini, that has a lot of options when you open the pack. Ready to go out of the box. X-wing travels easier than 40K too. No big cases, no big boxes of models. Usually all you see is a tackle box of some sort.

Don't get me wrong, I still play 40K, but haven't dropped more than $50 on them in the past two years. If your group is a hardcore GW fanboy base, you won't convert. Keep trying. Facebook groups help alot.

There is a psychological effect among gamers I like to call "Positive Opinion Spending" that afflicts miniatures gamers especially bad. The basic idea or emotional connection if you will is that because you spent a horrifically (stupid) amount of money on something, you must love it, otherwise you would be an idiot.

This is quite common among gamers of any sort, whether its PC games or board games... the idea that you can spend 50 bucks on something and than discover its terrible makes people feel like they have been cheated, so very often people who spent money on something will have a positive opinion of it just so they don't feel like a complete fool for having bought it in the first place. Typically the more expensive something is the longer the effect last, so you can imagine with an expensive hobby like Warhammer 40k that people spend thousands of dollars on... making the realization that its a sh*tty game is hard to swallow.

This is an example of cognitive dissonance. It is in no way restricted to gamers.

I think you should skip using big words until you understand what they mean.

More importantly you should not infer meaning where there is none, I did not suggest that this is something that happens only with gamers, I was simply pointing out that its common among gamers.

Best way to get a 40K player into x-wing. Show them the price. The starter box is less than the three ships it comes with, it has everything you need in the box, not just quick rules. A GW box, costs as much as the individual kits put together (no savings). You also get the rule book, movement templates, obstacles, well, everything you need to play in the starter box. Not an extra 50 rule book for your army, tape measure, and so on. Also, for 15 USD, you get a great looking, pre painted mini, that has a lot of options when you open the pack. Ready to go out of the box. X-wing travels easier than 40K too. No big cases, no big boxes of models. Usually all you see is a tackle box of some sort.

Don't get me wrong, I still play 40K, but haven't dropped more than $50 on them in the past two years. If your group is a hardcore GW fanboy base, you won't convert. Keep trying. Facebook groups help alot.

I don't know that price is a good argument since 40k gamers would argue quality and rightfully so, 40k miniatures are superior in every conceivable and measurable way over X-Wing miniatures. That said, miniatures for games like War Machine for example are way higher quality and arguably artistically better than 40k and they are also cheaper than X-Wing or 40K. I don't think price is sufficient selling point.

If anything I would argue that X-Wing is a fantastic game mechanically, it makes 40K look like over cooked version of Yathzee.

Best way to get a 40K player into x-wing. Show them the price. The starter box is less than the three ships it comes with, it has everything you need in the box, not just quick rules. A GW box, costs as much as the individual kits put together (no savings). You also get the rule book, movement templates, obstacles, well, everything you need to play in the starter box. Not an extra 50 rule book for your army, tape measure, and so on. Also, for 15 USD, you get a great looking, pre painted mini, that has a lot of options when you open the pack. Ready to go out of the box. X-wing travels easier than 40K too. No big cases, no big boxes of models. Usually all you see is a tackle box of some sort.

Don't get me wrong, I still play 40K, but haven't dropped more than $50 on them in the past two years. If your group is a hardcore GW fanboy base, you won't convert. Keep trying. Facebook groups help alot.

I don't know that price is a good argument since 40k gamers would argue quality and rightfully so, 40k miniatures are superior in every conceivable and measurable way over X-Wing miniatures. That said, miniatures for games like War Machine for example are way higher quality and arguably artistically better than 40k and they are also cheaper than X-Wing or 40K. I don't think price is sufficient selling point.

If anything I would argue that X-Wing is a fantastic game mechanically, it makes 40K look like over cooked version of Yathzee.

They aren't pre-painted. Don't get me wrong, x-wing repaints happen, and I've always enjoyed painting my minis. But some times I just want to sit down and game.

Buy in price is a huge difference, like majorly huge. 40K loses that war against... everything. GW miniatures however aren't the best out there, haven't been for a while. The best are pretty much third party sculps that don't even belong to a game system.

There is a psychological effect among gamers I like to call "Positive Opinion Spending" that afflicts miniatures gamers especially bad. The basic idea or emotional connection if you will is that because you spent a horrifically (stupid) amount of money on something, you must love it, otherwise you would be an idiot.

This is quite common among gamers of any sort, whether its PC games or board games... the idea that you can spend 50 bucks on something and than discover its terrible makes people feel like they have been cheated, so very often people who spent money on something will have a positive opinion of it just so they don't feel like a complete fool for having bought it in the first place. Typically the more expensive something is the longer the effect last, so you can imagine with an expensive hobby like Warhammer 40k that people spend thousands of dollars on... making the realization that its a sh*tty game is hard to swallow.

This is an example of cognitive dissonance. It is in no way restricted to gamers.

I think you should skip using big words until you understand what they mean.

More importantly you should not infer meaning where there is none, I did not suggest that this is something that happens only with gamers, I was simply pointing out that its common among gamers.

In all seriousness, if they play D&D and Warhammer 40k.....they may actually be more drawn to Imperial Assault.

its tactical skirmish, using squares much like D&D has in the past. Its unpainted minis may appeal to the 40k hobbyists, plus hordes of Stormtroopers might tickle a space marine player.

X-wing is great, don't get me wrong....but if you're looking to hook these guys you might wanna use the right bait.

In all seriousness, if they play D&D and Warhammer 40k.....they may actually be more drawn to Imperial Assault.

its tactical skirmish, using squares much like D&D has in the past. Its unpainted minis may appeal to the 40k hobbyists, plus hordes of Stormtroopers might tickle a space marine player.

X-wing is great, don't get me wrong....but if you're looking to hook these guys you might wanna use the right bait.

In all seriousness, if they play D&D and Warhammer 40k.....they may actually be more drawn to Imperial Assault.

its tactical skirmish, using squares much like D&D has in the past. Its unpainted minis may appeal to the 40k hobbyists, plus hordes of Stormtroopers might tickle a space marine player.

X-wing is great, don't get me wrong....but if you're looking to hook these guys you might wanna use the right bait.

I played IA once and it felt like the Star Wars version of Heroquest. And that was before I discovered it has a campaign...

Another reason it may appeal to a D&D group. getting loot & levels is a thing.

I'm not sure D&D is really a miniatures gaming group? I mean 40k and D&D .. that's more than just a different genre of gaming, that's like a whole different concept of gaming. In a lot of ways they are polar opposites of each other.

I do find X-Wing really sells itself though.. I mean just put it on the table... in my experience that is all it takes.

D&D as a boardgame (the starter sets) is totally like IA. AD&D with the million sourcebooks and DM a lot less so.

I'm not sure D&D is really a miniatures gaming group? I mean 40k and D&D .. that's more than just a different genre of gaming, that's like a whole different concept of gaming. In a lot of ways they are polar opposites of each other.

I do find X-Wing really sells itself though.. I mean just put it on the table... in my experience that is all it takes.

Actually 4th edition D&D was very miniatures oriented. Many abilities and powers were based on positional movement, the game moved away from the abstract style RPG and became more of a tabletop skirmish battle. I've heard 5th edition shifts back towards the abstracted with miniatures not being as necessary.

4th Edition was also utter garbage... But it was mini orientated.

Man, I totally boycotted 4th in hindsight, and I played a lot of 3.5/pathfinder.

Min-maxers/Munchkins will love X-wing and its list building. Roleplayers and narrative gamers might find 100 point-6 asteroid-deathmatch a little stale. They might enjoy Epic X-wing or the excellent Heroes of Aturi Cluster campaign.

Badass GM's like yours truly use star wars D20 and x-wing and make a narrative campaign, where the objective based x-wing games influence the D20, and the D20 influences x-wing.