@Tranenturm:

Just to clarify my post, I agree you are paying for Rogue and use it I will, but there will be many occasions, even with Rogue, where a squadron command will be needed to get the jump on a certain ship or squadrons in the opponents force. Rogue is great, but it won't always be the correct tactical choice. To me it adds options, but doesn't negate the need to command squadrons in the ship phase.

Point Defense is completely wasted on Black anti-squadron dice as the crit is always accompanied by a hit. What you want there is Ordnance Experts to re-roll the blanks right?

I also happen to think that Raiders are fairly poor dedicated anti squadron ships as they will almost certainly take 2-3 rounds to finish even a 3 hull swarm by which time your opponent will have killed your Raider with his anti ship dice regardless of color.

Now Raiders with squadrons flying with them will work as the opponent must shoot the squadrons, but then you may as well just have all squadrons.

Also bear in mind that the Raider will have to move each turn, meaning it will shoot at its squadron targets, then move away.

I see the Raider used in a similar manner to the CR-90 now, getting in rear arcs and scoring objective points, probably commanding a squadron or two of bombers or advanceds to rack up uber objective points...

Yeah, I tried outfitting a Raider to be dedicated anti squadron. It was underwhelming. You're better off spamming a few more generic TIE's. And either use the Raider as a flanker or just remove it and use the points elsewhere.

Point Defense is completely wasted on Black anti-squadron dice as the crit is always accompanied by a hit. What you want there is Ordnance Experts to re-roll the blanks right?

I also happen to think that Raiders are fairly poor dedicated anti squadron ships as they will almost certainly take 2-3 rounds to finish even a 3 hull swarm by which time your opponent will have killed your Raider with his anti ship dice regardless of color.

Now Raiders with squadrons flying with them will work as the opponent must shoot the squadrons, but then you may as well just have all squadrons.

Also bear in mind that the Raider will have to move each turn, meaning it will shoot at its squadron targets, then move away.

I see the Raider used in a similar manner to the CR-90 now, getting in rear arcs and scoring objective points, probably commanding a squadron or two of bombers or advanceds to rack up uber objective points...

Point defense is wasted on a Raider UNLESS you also take Quad Lasers. I'm not saying this is a good idea pts wise, but worth considering.

There is one, very, VERY important thing you're missing about the Raiders effectiveness as anti-squadron. It's going to do two average damage with ordnance experts to EVERY SQUADRON IN ARC. With Impetuous, it's going to nail them all for two, then nail one more for two more.

If that were a clump of A-Wings, one would be dead or nearly dead, the rest would be hovering around 2 hp, and all without taking a SINGLE counter shot!

This is a feat that an equal number of pts in TIEs simply cannot pull off without taking significant casualties.

By itself, it hasn't wiped the clump, but even a small TIE escort will have no issue mopping up what it leaves behind.

The real benefit here is this: Outfitted as optimal anti-squadron (Raider I + Ordnance Experts + Impetuous) you've only actually spent 4 pts on squadron-specific upgrades. The Raider I with Ordnance Experts is a great ship against both ships AND squadrons. You really can't lose with this pairing. Throw on some Expanded Launchers to make it a real terror.

I also happen to think that Raiders are fairly poor dedicated anti squadron ships as they will almost certainly take 2-3 rounds to finish even a 3 hull swarm by which time your opponent will have killed your Raider with his anti ship dice regardless of color.

Now Raiders with squadrons flying with them will work as the opponent must shoot the squadrons, but then you may as well just have all squadrons.

Also bear in mind that the Raider will have to move each turn, meaning it will shoot at its squadron targets, then move away.

I see the Raider used in a similar manner to the CR-90 now, getting in rear arcs and scoring objective points, probably commanding a squadron or two of bombers or advanceds to rack up uber objective points...

Yeah, I tried outfitting a Raider to be dedicated anti squadron. It was underwhelming. You're better off spamming a few more generic TIE's. And either use the Raider as a flanker or just remove it and use the points elsewhere.

I'm a bit disappointed to hear about the Raider's ability to hunt down squadrons (as, for some reason, this was how I viewed the ship when it was first announced), though the reasons you discussed (shoot/move + speed, in particular) make sense. It certainly seems like the Raider can certainly be a predator, but maybe primarily against large ships (I'm thinking Ordnance Experts + Expanded Launchers for me, probably accompanied by 1-2 black dice TIEs)?

Out of curiosity, have either of you had experience with the Raider supporting a TIE screen, say in defense of another larger ship (ISD bomber magnet comes to mind)? Just thinking over the final match at worlds, it seems that 4 TIEs supported by a Raider or two shadowing the VSD would have posed a serious threat to the A-wing swarm (or, in the alternative, at least delayed their approach or forced them to withdraw for a round before tactically redeploying away from the Raiders). It seems like the Raider would really shine in this role, and it makes sense conceptually, but I don't have any practical tabletop experience on this front yet.

Point Defense is completely wasted on Black anti-squadron dice as the crit is always accompanied by a hit. What you want there is Ordnance Experts to re-roll the blanks right?

I also happen to think that Raiders are fairly poor dedicated anti squadron ships as they will almost certainly take 2-3 rounds to finish even a 3 hull swarm by which time your opponent will have killed your Raider with his anti ship dice regardless of color.

Now Raiders with squadrons flying with them will work as the opponent must shoot the squadrons, but then you may as well just have all squadrons.

Also bear in mind that the Raider will have to move each turn, meaning it will shoot at its squadron targets, then move away.

I see the Raider used in a similar manner to the CR-90 now, getting in rear arcs and scoring objective points, probably commanding a squadron or two of bombers or advanceds to rack up uber objective points...

Point defense is wasted on a Raider UNLESS you also take Quad Lasers. I'm not saying this is a good idea pts wise, but worth considering.

There is one, very, VERY important thing you're missing about the Raiders effectiveness as anti-squadron. It's going to do two average damage with ordnance experts to EVERY SQUADRON IN ARC. With Impetuous, it's going to nail them all for two, then nail one more for two more.

If that were a clump of A-Wings, one would be dead or nearly dead, the rest would be hovering around 2 hp, and all without taking a SINGLE counter shot!

This is a feat that an equal number of pts in TIEs simply cannot pull off without taking significant casualties.

By itself, it hasn't wiped the clump, but even a small TIE escort will have no issue mopping up what it leaves behind.

The real benefit here is this: Outfitted as optimal anti-squadron (Raider I + Ordnance Experts + Impetuous) you've only actually spent 4 pts on squadron-specific upgrades. The Raider I with Ordnance Experts is a great ship against both ships AND squadrons. You really can't lose with this pairing. Throw on some Expanded Launchers to make it a real terror.

I'm probably missing something, but I'm 99% sure that a Raider can't support Quad Lasers and Point Defense Reroute, since both use the offensive retrofit slot. An ISD I can slot them both (which is extremely intriguing), but at the cost of other offensive retrofits (expanded hangers + boosted comms being the most obvious combo).

Beyond that, I absolutely agree with the Ordnance Experts--for just four points, there's absolutely no reason to not take them on anything that chucks black die in any significant amount. (As an aside, I'm pretty sure it would work on opening salvo dice, too... so farewell to that objective being picked ). Expanded Launchers makes the top-end damage potential crazy.

I'll probably run another Raider in an effort to try the anti squadron role. Or at least as a lead in for anti squadron with a flanking role late. I think I'll try a Raider II w/ Ordnance Expert, PDR, and Instigator. Expensive, yeah, but follow that up with only 4 T/A should put a hurt on a ball of fighters.

I'm probably missing something, but I'm 99% sure that a Raider can't support Quad Lasers and Point Defense Reroute, since both use the offensive retrofit slot. An ISD I can slot them both (which is extremely intriguing), but at the cost of other offensive retrofits (expanded hangers + boosted comms being the most obvious combo).

Beyond that, I absolutely agree with the Ordnance Experts--for just four points, there's absolutely no reason to not take them on anything that chucks black die in any significant amount. (As an aside, I'm pretty sure it would work on opening salvo dice, too... so farewell to that objective being picked ). Expanded Launchers makes the top-end damage potential crazy.

Nope, you're right.

I'm so underwhelmed by the combo that I literally didn't even bother looking what slot Quad lasers occupies. I never plan on using it.

And you're right about Opening Salvo, but being able to add one blue and one black (with a re-roll from Vader) is nice for a chance at three accuracies.

A Raider packing Expanded Launchers and Ordnance Experts running flank to a Gladiator sporting Rapid Reload and Ordnance Experts is the hotness.