The FORUM meta might have changed, but that honestly has nothing at all to do with the actual game.

we gotta add this to the thread of Armada terms; well put

It's a witch! Burn it.

rabble rabble rabble....

This list turned me into a newt..... I got better.

I liked squadrons before it was cool to like squadrons.

Me too Stasy, I've been playing with them from the beginning, and have never given up on them....

Hmm let's try in this thread:

Can we try and compile the top 8 lists from worlds? Also anyone know what total attendance was?

Final Results - Top 8:

1st - Jonathan Reinig

• CR-90 B + Garm Bel Iblis
• 2x Assault Frigate B
• 8x A-Wing Squadrons

2nd - Francois Fressin

3rd - Dustin Foran

• Victory Class I + Admiral Screed + Assault Concussion
• 3x Gladiator Class I + Assault Concussion

4th - Francisco Berna Menendez

• Victory Class I + Admiral Screed;
• Gladiator Class I + Demolisher + Assault Concussion
• 2x Gladiator Class I + Assault Concussion

5th - Pat Doyle

6th - Royal Tippetts

• Victory I-class Star Destroyer + Admiral Screed + Weapons Liaison + Assault Concussion Missiles + H9 Turbolasers
• Victory I-class Star Destroyer + Assault Concussion Missiles + H9 Turbolasers
• Gladiator I-class Star Destroyer + Engine Techs + Assault Concussion Missiles + Demolisher

7th - Daniel Hars

8th - Gerry Russell

• Gladiator Class I + Admiral Screed + Assault Concussion
• Gladiator Class I + Demolisher + Assault Concussion
• 2x Gladiator Class I + Assault Concussion

The number I had quoted for attendance at Armada was 55.

totally independent of the faction and the general list, going to battle without any fighters does not only feel totally wrong (especially in a SW game), I also never saw it working. Provided equally skilled players. Its just too much versatility given up.

Well, not an original post, admittedly, just wanted to reinforce the point.

The problem with squadron versitility is some seem to want to give up ship versatility to field them

Remember ye ol Yavaris + Haven skew?

Hopefully, worlds opens up our eyes as to what a true carrier needs (I.e not at all much)

I definitly dont want to say you cant win without fighters, that would be undue presuming, and has been proven wrong, anyway. But more often than not, it will be advantagous to have them. I dont try without them, but often have "only" 4.

The balance of this game means that squadron lists are viable and that non squadron lists are viable.

In the end, it comes out to planning, experience, and skill.

I don't know about anyone else but for the those reasons I am enamored with this game

Fighters, as always, are a risk due to the scoring rules.

In my final game, I fought two assault frigates with 4 A-wing and 4 Y-wing. We were at table four, so his list was doing well. The fighters were annoying as hell, chipping away at my shields and getting damage through. But as soon as that second frigate went down, I instantly got 84 points for free.

Point defense.....definitely point defense...

Point defense works best with black anti squadron dice. Quad laser for counter 1 on some of those ships would of helped

But raiders built for squadron duty will be nasty

Firespray spam will be the next meta, calling it now

Sontir - 18

Mithel - 15

Adv x4 - 48

Total - 81 pts

Seven less than he had in squads and this should take care of them a wings

Admiral C would guarantee this

Point defense.....definitely point defense...

Point defense works best with black anti squadron dice. Quad laser for counter 1 on some of those ships would of helped

But raiders built for squadron duty will be nasty

Point defense.....definitely point defense...

Point defense works best with black anti squadron dice. Quad laser for counter 1 on some of those ships would of helped

But raiders built for squadron duty will be nasty

Why in the world would you ever reroll a black anti-squadron dice on a critcal.

You wouldn't, but paired with Quad Lasers (which roll blue regardless of your normal Anti-Squadron battery) PDR can work on a Raider.

For it's black dice you want Ordnance Experts.

Sontir - 18

Mithel - 15

Adv x4 - 48

Total - 81 pts

Seven less than he had in squads and this should take care of them a wings

Admiral C would guarantee this

The beauty of the game is that this does take care of the A-wings, but is FAR weaker vs ships than 8 A-wings. This list throws 4 black and 2 blue antiship dice for an average of 4 damage. The 8 A-wings throws 8 black dice for an average of 6 damage. (50% more)

A-wings aren't over-powered. They are versatile. X-wings don't get used as much because lots of folks don't respect squadrons. But once people do start respecting squadrons, the best anti-squadron squadrons (that tend to be poor anti-ship) will get seen to counter the bomber and versatile lists. So we'll evolve to X-wings vs TIE Interceptors at which point the all-ship lists will make a big comeback and then we have the round robin.

Firespray spam will be the next meta, calling it now

In fleet builders, maybe. The cost of those R&V packs might be a fairly strong disincentive for the table-top, though.

Sontir - 18

Mithel - 15

Adv x4 - 48

Total - 81 pts

Seven less than he had in squads and this should take care of them a wings

Admiral C would guarantee this

The beauty of the game is that this does take care of the A-wings, but is FAR weaker vs ships than 8 A-wings. This list throws 4 black and 2 blue antiship dice for an average of 4 damage. The 8 A-wings throws 8 black dice for an average of 6 damage. (50% more)

A-wings aren't over-powered. They are versatile. X-wings don't get used as much because lots of folks don't respect squadrons. But once people do start respecting squadrons, the best anti-squadron squadrons (that tend to be poor anti-ship) will get seen to counter the bomber and versatile lists. So we'll evolve to X-wings vs TIE Interceptors at which point the all-ship lists will make a big comeback and then we have the round robin.

I've come to appreciate the squadron balance in this game. X-wings with black dice would probably edge A-wings for me... but since they rock the red, it's a closer call. A TIE advanced isn't better than an A-wing on its own (slower, no counter), but it opens up synergies with other imperial squadrons (protect Rhymer + throw black dice at medium range; auto-damage from Soontir). The Aggressor seems like the closest thing the Imps have to an all-purpose fighter (four anti-squadron, five hull, black anti-ship die, counter 1, Rogue), but at a significantly higher cost than an A-wing. Firesprays are the more potent anti-ship all-purpose squadron, but at an even higher cost. You can still spam them (7 Aggressors + IG-2000; 6 firesprays + Boba), there will just be a whole lot less models than if you spam TIEs (16 TIEs, or 14 + Howlrunner) or A's (12 A's).

Hmm let's try in this thread:

Can we try and compile the top 8 lists from worlds? Also anyone know what total attendance was?

Final Results - Top 8:

[...]

6th - Royal Tippetts

[...]

I just heard from Royal. Here's the list he flew:

Victory I-class Star Destroyer + Admiral Screed + Weapons Liaison + Assault Concussion Missiles + H9 Turbolasers

Victory I-class Star Destroyer + Assault Concussion Missiles + H9 Turbolasers

Gladiator I-class Star Destroyer + Engine Techs + Assault Concussion Missiles + Demolisher

Firespray spam will be the next meta, calling it now

In fleet builders, maybe. The cost of those R&V packs might be a fairly strong disincentive for the table-top, though.

Sontir - 18

Mithel - 15

Adv x4 - 48

Total - 81 pts

Seven less than he had in squads and this should take care of them a wings

Admiral C would guarantee this

The beauty of the game is that this does take care of the A-wings, but is FAR weaker vs ships than 8 A-wings. This list throws 4 black and 2 blue antiship dice for an average of 4 damage. The 8 A-wings throws 8 black dice for an average of 6 damage. (50% more)

A-wings aren't over-powered. They are versatile. X-wings don't get used as much because lots of folks don't respect squadrons. But once people do start respecting squadrons, the best anti-squadron squadrons (that tend to be poor anti-ship) will get seen to counter the bomber and versatile lists. So we'll evolve to X-wings vs TIE Interceptors at which point the all-ship lists will make a big comeback and then we have the round robin.

I've come to appreciate the squadron balance in this game. X-wings with black dice would probably edge A-wings for me... but since they rock the red, it's a closer call. A TIE advanced isn't better than an A-wing on its own (slower, no counter), but it opens up synergies with other imperial squadrons (protect Rhymer + throw black dice at medium range; auto-damage from Soontir). The Aggressor seems like the closest thing the Imps have to an all-purpose fighter (four anti-squadron, five hull, black anti-ship die, counter 1, Rogue), but at a significantly higher cost than an A-wing. Firesprays are the more potent anti-ship all-purpose squadron, but at an even higher cost. You can still spam them (7 Aggressors + IG-2000; 6 firesprays + Boba), there will just be a whole lot less models than if you spam TIEs (16 TIEs, or 14 + Howlrunner) or A's (12 A's).

Ya, but TIEs and Ints get mulched by even the weakest anti squadron salvo due to the 3 health. If they run into something like a raider or H9+Warlord that can spare the shot, they are toast. Even just the 1 extra health on the A-Wing helps a very surprising amount.

Firespray spam will be the next meta, calling it now

In fleet builders, maybe. The cost of those R&V packs might be a fairly strong disincentive for the table-top, though.

Sontir - 18

Mithel - 15

Adv x4 - 48

Total - 81 pts

Seven less than he had in squads and this should take care of them a wings

Admiral C would guarantee this

The beauty of the game is that this does take care of the A-wings, but is FAR weaker vs ships than 8 A-wings. This list throws 4 black and 2 blue antiship dice for an average of 4 damage. The 8 A-wings throws 8 black dice for an average of 6 damage. (50% more)

A-wings aren't over-powered. They are versatile. X-wings don't get used as much because lots of folks don't respect squadrons. But once people do start respecting squadrons, the best anti-squadron squadrons (that tend to be poor anti-ship) will get seen to counter the bomber and versatile lists. So we'll evolve to X-wings vs TIE Interceptors at which point the all-ship lists will make a big comeback and then we have the round robin.

I've come to appreciate the squadron balance in this game. X-wings with black dice would probably edge A-wings for me... but since they rock the red, it's a closer call. A TIE advanced isn't better than an A-wing on its own (slower, no counter), but it opens up synergies with other imperial squadrons (protect Rhymer + throw black dice at medium range; auto-damage from Soontir). The Aggressor seems like the closest thing the Imps have to an all-purpose fighter (four anti-squadron, five hull, black anti-ship die, counter 1, Rogue), but at a significantly higher cost than an A-wing. Firesprays are the more potent anti-ship all-purpose squadron, but at an even higher cost. You can still spam them (7 Aggressors + IG-2000; 6 firesprays + Boba), there will just be a whole lot less models than if you spam TIEs (16 TIEs, or 14 + Howlrunner) or A's (12 A's).

Ya, but TIEs and Ints get mulched by even the weakest anti squadron salvo due to the 3 health. If they run into something like a raider or H9+Warlord that can spare the shot, they are toast. Even just the 1 extra health on the A-Wing helps a very surprising amount.

Well, people shouldn't place TIEs willy nilly without thinking about ships taking shots anymore, then.

I will rarely give a ship the chance to fire on more than a few of my TIEs at once. The only time you should clump them in one firing arc is when they have to pick between your fighters and a ship to shoot at.

I think the Aggressor will see a lot of play for Imps, maybe mixed with Firesprays. Neither will require Rhymer, but will benefit from Squadron commands. (I happen to think Rogue is not going to be as powerful as people think.)

I intend to try out 4 of each with 2 Gladiators and 2 Raiders.....

I have never flown a Rebel list without fighters (usually 4 A-wings) and I have only ever flown Imps without them once and would not do so again.

Squadrons just take time to learn to use. Bring ships only at your peril nowadays.

I think your right that mixing aggressors with Firesprays will be a thing. However, not if you intend on ever doing more than one command. You're paying for rogue. Why not use it? If you plan on using squad commands, your better bet (cheaper) will be TIE adv with flight controllers. Plus a TIE Int or two for the alpha strike.

I think the Aggressor will see a lot of play for Imps, maybe mixed with Firesprays. Neither will require Rhymer, but will benefit from Squadron commands. (I happen to think Rogue is not going to be as powerful as people think.)

I intend to try out 4 of each with 2 Gladiators and 2 Raiders.....

I have never flown a Rebel list without fighters (usually 4 A-wings) and I have only ever flown Imps without them once and would not do so again.

Squadrons just take time to learn to use. Bring ships only at your peril nowadays.

I think your right that mixing aggressors with Firesprays will be a thing. However, not if you intend on ever doing more than one command. You're paying for rogue. Why not use it? If you plan on using squad commands, your better bet (cheaper) will be TIE adv with flight controllers. Plus a TIE Int or two for the alpha strike.

I agree with both of this. On their own, the Aggressors and Firesprays are fantastic squadrons (multipurpose, durable, decent speed), and Rogue makes them more flexible. Two of each runs 68 points (unless you upgrade one aggressor to the IG-2000, which I'm always tempted to do), which leaves about the same amount of points available for other squadrons. If you do have a ship that can function as a large carrier (or want your Raiders to have a TIE or two to escort), there's room for up to six interceptors, 7 bombers, or 8 vanilla TIEs, or some sort of mix-and-match to suit your tastes (two TA and four TIE bombers, for example). If you wanted to go full-squadron, that's 10-14 squadrons at your command, with various specializations.

Carrier builds in Wave I basically required two carriers (Vic/AFII; more if you wanted Nebs to function as your primary carriers) to make their squadrons optimal (and since squadrons were a significant point investment, not using them optimally was... sub-optimal... usually). With the option to sprinkle Rogue squadrons in now, dual-carriers aren't strictly necessary for large squadron groups. An ISD and two Raiders can effectively command up to nine squadrons if each sports expanded hangers, and up to 12 if each has hangers + token (which is insanity, by the way), but if you didn't want to invest in Tarkin + Expanded Hangers for some reason (you wanted tractors, for example), those same ships can still effectively command six squadrons without any upgrades (or four, if you wanted your Raiders to go pedal-to-the-metal an just wanted the ISD to function as a carrier), and you can fill out the rest of your squadron rotation with Rogues.

@Tranenturm:

Just to clarify my post, I agree you are paying for Rogue and use it I will, but there will be many occasions, even with Rogue, where a squadron command will be needed to get the jump on a certain ship or squadrons in the opponents force. Rogue is great, but it won't always be the correct tactical choice. To me it adds options, but doesn't negate the need to command squadrons in the ship phase.

Point defense.....definitely point defense...

Point defense works best with black anti squadron dice. Quad laser for counter 1 on some of those ships would of helped

But raiders built for squadron duty will be nasty

I like Quad Lasers personally between your normal squadron fire + the counter from the quads and then a second round of squadron fire and you can start dropping squadrons quickly (yes it means shooting at squadrons not ships but if an opponent has 80+ points of fighters they basically are a ship at that point)

I had this idea too basically just Rhymer ball Firesprays and then load up Ships as anti-ship beasts