As much as I complain about Acewing, I'm starting to fly an Acewing list. It's a more fun meta and probably the best we'll get barring the pre-Phantom golden era that I got a mere taste of, as the dumb white segnors Scum Super Dash is set to ruin the game in a few months.

What is wrong with your hate for Dengar befor he even is out? I mean all we know is that he has one side of his dial where he is really strong and that he will be a not spammable 3 dice turret with a huge benefit for keeping things in arc (which is good). As far as we know there are no defensive upgrades to bring him anywhere near the fatness level of Rebel turrets. The Power Droid may be something, but i don't think it will be 3PO/Isard level. Maybe an even more situational R2 crew. Want to run PTL? Well you won't get to use that awesome white Sengors that you need to keep your ability running. For all we know he could have the Lambdas dial going to the left! In fact I think that is likely. Have a bit more faith in this design team, they do know what they are doing. The Pogostick will be an interesting ship.

At least wait with the moaning until the dial and Power Droid are revealed, then we will be able to evaluate that ship.

1.) You have to understand I super hated the pre-nerf Phantom. I believe I stopped lurking here specifically to defend the argument proposed by someone who apparently had been banned and posted a Phantom complain thread with a sock puppet account, which everyone seized upon instead of acknowledging his actual argument.

The primary reason why I hated the pre-nerf phantom was the hypermobility it had, where if you didn't have PS 9+ you often simply could never get it in arc. Super Dash with PtL Boost/Barrel roll is much the same way, he can move wherever you want him to go and often you simply can't do anything against it. Scum Super Dash is going to be the same way.

2.) The dial is going to have a 3 bank in both directions anyways. With unhinged that completely defeats the cool asymmetrical dial thing, just like ACD broke the cloak action and Outrider defeated the purpose of having a cannon slot on a turret ship to incentivize in arc shots.

3.) The fact that Dengar gets a bonus attack for in arc shots means nothing, players will still play orbit the map with it and run. It doesn't /lose/ anything like a non-outrider HLC 2400 does by going for in arc shots, it just doesn't gain the bonus.

The Semi-Champ, Nathan, showed us all the key to winning at the last round there.

Throw all your dice in.

I'm sure you'll get a hit in there or something.

As much as I complain about Acewing, I'm starting to fly an Acewing list. It's a more fun meta and probably the best we'll get barring the pre-Phantom golden era that I got a mere taste of, as the dumb white segnors Scum Super Dash is set to ruin the game in a few months.

What is wrong with your hate for Dengar befor he even is out? I mean all we know is that he has one side of his dial where he is really strong and that he will be a not spammable 3 dice turret with a huge benefit for keeping things in arc (which is good). As far as we know there are no defensive upgrades to bring him anywhere near the fatness level of Rebel turrets. The Power Droid may be something, but i don't think it will be 3PO/Isard level. Maybe an even more situational R2 crew. Want to run PTL? Well you won't get to use that awesome white Sengors that you need to keep your ability running. For all we know he could have the Lambdas dial going to the left! In fact I think that is likely. Have a bit more faith in this design team, they do know what they are doing. The Pogostick will be an interesting ship.

At least wait with the moaning until the dial and Power Droid are revealed, then we will be able to evaluate that ship.

1.) You have to understand I super hated the pre-nerf Phantom. I believe I stopped lurking here specifically to defend the argument proposed by someone who apparently had been banned and posted a Phantom complain thread with a sock puppet account, which everyone seized upon instead of acknowledging his actual argument.

The primary reason why I hated the pre-nerf phantom was the hypermobility it had, where if you didn't have PS 9+ you often simply could never get it in arc. Super Dash with PtL Boost/Barrel roll is much the same way, he can move wherever you want him to go and often you simply can't do anything against it. Scum Super Dash is going to be the same way.

2.) The dial is going to have a 3 bank in both directions anyways. With unhinged that completely defeats the cool asymmetrical dial thing, just like ACD broke the cloak action and Outrider defeated the purpose of having a cannon slot on a turret ship to incentivize in arc shots.

3.) The fact that Dengar gets a bonus attack for in arc shots means nothing, players will still play orbit the map with it and run. It doesn't /lose/ anything like a non-outrider HLC 2400 does by going for in arc shots, it just doesn't gain the bonus.

You can do lots of things to prevent Dash or Dengar from doing anywhere, you just have to block them. TIE Fighters/A-Wings are acekillers in their own ways. This is nothing like the Phantom that could change position by a huge amount befor moving, thereby avoiding blocks. The statement that the dial will have 3 banks into both directions is completely unfounded. We will have to see the dial to be able to judge here. Having 2 attacks per turn without a real drawback (except for getting shot at, of course) wins games. This can psych people into not taking range one shots. You know Corran, you should understand that this arc will do a lot. If you just want to orbit the map you will be better off with a Decimator or Falcon.

However, if you want to build a successfull list, it should include atleast one or both of TLT and Autothrusters. These 2 upgrades are just that good.

I feel this is too close minded.

TLT: Why is it good? It's two 3 dice rolls are almost like gunner shots, two perfectly good chances to deal damage and let the luck of the dice prevail over action economy but upping the chances by just doing it more often.

Autothrusters: Why is it good? It takes away the "luck" of the dice and adds a solid modifier at the right range, no more randomness!

Looking at this, I say you should instead just include things that reduce the amount of randomness and "bad dice" bringing your list down. Gunner. Actions. TLTs. Crack Shot. or just Plain more guns on the table.

This. IMO Paul's list is remarkable for hiw dice-proof it is.

Poe: his 2 green dice are guaranteed an evade under right circumstances (blank turns into evade from autothrusters, focus from pilot ability) and his reds are also boosted by pilot ability.

Stressbot stresses you regardless if it hits or misses .

TLT has a built-in gunner-like effect.

Bith Ys only have 1 green so their survivability isn't really dice dependant.

The meta is now Acewing. Broken ships like Super Poe and Super Corran dominate. Stack a bunch of power upgrades on some high PS ship with some obnoxious pilot ability and get 15 free things a turn. Whisper, Corran, Super Dash, etc.

39 point Super Poe, or a Bounty Hunter with engine and tactician? 39 point Super Poe or 3 Talas? I could get 3 useless ships or one that's invincible at range 3 and will conveniently roll nothing but focus evade with a free focus conversion every time it's at range 1-2 and then regen the one damage my opponent got through with his 3/3 hit attack.

It's far improved over the past meta, but it'd be nice if 2 B-Wings chasing Poe actually had a chance of killing it. If 36 points of TIE Fighters actually had a chance against a Poe of ~equal cost, or if 48 points of TIEs had a chance against 48 point Super Corran that'd be great.

Still far better than the previous meta though.

First turret wing now ace wing?

You got it dude.

I'm salty about Acewing, but it's far better than Turretwing was.

As much as I complain about Acewing, I'm starting to fly an Acewing list. It's a more fun meta and probably the best we'll get barring the pre-Phantom golden era that I got a mere taste of, as the dumb white segnors Scum Super Dash is set to ruin the game in a few months.

This game is best when it's a bunch of ships that get one action a turn, move once a turn, and attack once a turn with nuanced PS differences. Genericwing. My favorite matchup is swarm vs. swarm, as it's determined entirely by flying ability (and well, dice of course).

The game you want to play is too boring to be this popular.

Agreed. Named pilots are integral to Star Wars, generics are boring limited. A healthy balance, that we are now very close to, is where the game is at its best.

Generics are not boring

SPAM is boring

Skews are boring

They turn over games to decision by matchup over skill (relative to the game's 'normal' state)

There are a number of ships that seem to be missing from the competitive zone: Defenders, Tie-bombers, X-wings, B-wings?, most scum stuff etc. Good to see swarms coming back strong with the new rules regarding points for damaged large ships.

Yep. In a Team Covenant interview during GenCon 2015 Alex Davy specifically mentioned those ships and how he was working on a way to bring them back into play. The updates will come, it's just a matter of time.

There are a number of ships that seem to be missing from the competitive zone: Defenders, Tie-bombers, X-wings, B-wings?, most scum stuff etc. Good to see swarms coming back strong with the new rules regarding points for damaged large ships.

Yep. In a Team Covenant interview during GenCon 2015 Alex Davy specifically mentioned those ships and how he was working on a way to bring them back into play. The updates will come, it's just a matter of time.

X-wings and Bombers will be getting substantial upgrades in wave 8. Defenders got some modest help in Wave 7. B-wings are in an interesting place right now, because there's a strong argument that TLT Y-wings have muscled in on their turf, and they're unlikely to get new help anytime soon.

The TLT-Y is minimum 2 points more, but has more reliable damage output, larger overall arc, and is faster. The B is tougher and punchier, but needs to be able to make Range 1 regularly to make their increased firepower felt. As the Two Ship Meta diminishes (seemingly), the B's best cheap upgrade, FCS, gets to be a worse investment. Now, a 2 point discount from a TLT-Y to a B-wing is significant, but I think the Blue Squadron Pilot's bread and butter role as a the meaty center of a squad might be fading.

I don't think B wings are going anywhere, they just are not standing out as much as they once were. they are a solid choice along with other solid choices. that is as it should be.

Honestly, bombers are surprisingly swanky even as of now. They might get even better with guidance whatever, but I've been really surprised with

Scimitar (homing, seismics, extra munitions) [25]

They've been tested on freaking Aggressors, and they have not been found lacking

Because even when unmodified green dice decide, as always, To completely **** you ever by blocking homing missles completely, you still got bombs

Wave 7 is a great example of people getting there expectations too high. They took Alex's statements as being the long awaited ordnance fix. Only, it was a fix for a different issue, the issue of the overloaded Bomber. I love the design of the stuff they did in Wave 7, it just isn't what people wanted.

As for Autothrusters, I still fail to see the issue. Has no one seen a one shot Fel at Range 3 before? As for their effectiveness, given a fair amount of TLTs used seemed to want ships in their arc, and some of the turret stuff coming wants stuff in their arc, it can really reduce their effectiveness. Also, rolling all eyeballs does happen. Which also sucks for Lone Wolf.

And I think people need to count the greys in top 16. I think there were more there than in previous World's full flight. This is not a 2 or 9 PS meta.

I feel like the fact that the PS2 gold TLT stresshog even exists should mean that there's a spot for PS>2. You want to kill that thing befor it fires too many times.

Good reason to bump it up 2 steps, actually.

So... how to build Tycho in the new meta?

He's a potential PS10 ace that's immune to stress, and still has an EPT left, but is stuck in a pretty fragile ship.

Should a "meta" Tycho run Wired, PTL or Juke with VI? Or something else?

The Jake route is a pretty good idea with PTL/VI and Prockets for the damage spike. You can however use Daredevil for added fun and a k-turn substitute.

Juke is a pretty choice for an Awing to up the damage getting through

Pilots between PS2 and PS8 (after VI) in the top 16:

Champion: (none)

2nd: (none)

Top 4: IG88 A, IG88B

Top 8: Dash Rendar

Top 16: 2x Grey Squadron TLTs, Dash again, 6x Obsidian Squadron, 3x Grey Squadron B-TL-T,

It appears that it's PS8 or bust, unless your ability is bonkers. Possibly PS9 or bust.

This is how I have been feeling as well. If its not 9-11PS, there is no reason to invest in pilot skill.

You have to have counters to a few specific ships and one of the easiest counters to an ace is to be ace-er.

You do realize that it's not really PS9 or bust right? There's a reason why people run PS4 Obs and that's for Crack Shot, or a reason why people fly PS3, and that's to beat the meta PS2 Stressbots and TLTs.

So... how to build Tycho in the new meta?

He's a potential PS10 ace that's immune to stress, and still has an EPT left, but is stuck in a pretty fragile ship.

Should a "meta" Tycho run Wired, PTL or Juke with VI? Or something else?

I'm not convinced there aren't a lot of good ways to run him.

1.) VI+PTL+Prockets makes him an ace-killing assassin. Fast, PS10, hits really hard (once).

2.) PTL+Juke (with or without Prockets) is going to generate more damage over time, which can be nice, and without Prockets ends up being 4 points cheaper than the VI version.

3.) PTL+Wired is the tankier version, because you get Focus re-rolls every round against attacks and can do things like Boost and Evade for your actions, then still have some re-rolls on the attack. I think this could be a useful anti-TLT piece. Autothrusters would take care of 1 blank green, and Eyes would always be re-rolled, so those TLTs would have a hell of a time getting through. A Green Squadron pilot could do it cheaper, but couldn't have all the moves or PS, so it depends on how much you value those.

This isn't even touching Psycho Tycho.

Pilots between PS2 and PS8 (after VI) in the top 16:

Champion: (none)

2nd: (none)

Top 4: IG88 A, IG88B

Top 8: Dash Rendar

Top 16: 2x Grey Squadron TLTs, Dash again, 6x Obsidian Squadron, 3x Grey Squadron B-TL-T,

It appears that it's PS8 or bust, unless your ability is bonkers. Possibly PS9 or bust.

This is how I have been feeling as well. If its not 9-11PS, there is no reason to invest in pilot skill.

You have to have counters to a few specific ships and one of the easiest counters to an ace is to be ace-er.

You do realize that it's not really PS9 or bust right? There's a reason why people run PS4 Obs and that's for Crack Shot, or a reason why people fly PS3, and that's to beat the meta PS2 Stressbots and TLTs.

Obsidian, you're getting for the "Pilot ability" of Crack shot, with a nice if small pilot bid. the only second tier generic (no EPT) in the top 16 were TLTs that were upgraded just to ignore what you suggest.

Pilots between PS2 and PS8 (after VI) in the top 16:

Champion: (none)

2nd: (none)

Top 4: IG88 A, IG88B

Top 8: Dash Rendar

Top 16: 2x Grey Squadron TLTs, Dash again, 6x Obsidian Squadron, 3x Grey Squadron B-TL-T,

It appears that it's PS8 or bust, unless your ability is bonkers. Possibly PS9 or bust.

This is how I have been feeling as well. If its not 9-11PS, there is no reason to invest in pilot skill.

You have to have counters to a few specific ships and one of the easiest counters to an ace is to be ace-er.

You do realize that it's not really PS9 or bust right? There's a reason why people run PS4 Obs and that's for Crack Shot, or a reason why people fly PS3, and that's to beat the meta PS2 Stressbots and TLTs.

Obsidian, you're getting for the "Pilot ability" of Crack shot, with a nice if small pilot bid. the only second tier generic (no EPT) in the top 16 were TLTs that were upgraded just to ignore what you suggest.

What do Obsidians have to do with Crackshot? Did you mean Predator, that their higher PS protects them from? Or did you mean Black Squadron Pilots that could equip Crackshot?

He might've been thinking of Blacks.

Excuse me, I made the mistake of assuming the person I was replying to knew what he was talking about when he said "PS4 Obs with crack shot" and mixed them up with black squadron pilots.

PS bidding isn't quite there, yet, but I predict it becoming more important after this worlds, just because of the amazing stress bot.