So, I am in many an Armada Groups on facebook. I do this so I can see what other people think and how their meta's differ from where I am at. One of these groups caught my attention. This group had a player test many of the Wave 2 models out (MC80, MC30 and ISD). After that he/she put up their thoughts on the new things and while I don't subscribe to "The Sky is falling" ideology, I found people stating that the VSD is obsolete. Some even stated it was obsolete in Wave 1.

This topic is about what you think will be the biggest changes from your experiences (or thoughts of what you have seen) with wave 2 coming out and about how each ship's current use may or may not change.

Feel free to state that things will be obsolete. Let us discuss these things and find out what everyone thinks.

Imo, the biggest agent for change is Akbar. We havn't had a long range threat like we've had a short range in the gen con special; Akbar finally fills in the missing piece. Wave 2 will, in my best guess, revolve around him

Change 1: Long Range Bombers

With Akbar begging to be countered, boosted comms, and Silly H-6s, we're entering a long range bombing renascence

Sillies, Rhymer, Rogues, and A-wings will probably be at the forefront (not counting Independence Bs), as will whatever people take to counter them

Change 2: Poor GSDs

While still incredibly potent, I don't think the bum rush strategy of the old Gen Con special will work anymore (not like it really did against Yavaris, but hey)

We're going to need new tactics to appropriate these awesome ships to Wave 2, lest they be unceremoniously dice by gunnery team + Akbar

Change 3: The Long Range Game

In addition to bombers, I've been noticing how crazy even non-Akbar long range options (Cr-90 with TLRC, Salvation, ISD-2 with gunnery team etc.) get when they're allowed to concentrate fire. 400 points really lets you bring a lot of guns to bear on a poor ship, letting you slay it in cold blood with very little effort if you manage to catch it exposed

Seriously, GSDs go pop! (sorry to keep mentioning them, but everyone else plays imps...so I'm not exactly spoiled for choice here) when out of position.

Fickle's Favorite First Phicks:

I'm most excited to fly:

Boosted Comms Sillies/B-wings

TLRC Cr-90s and shrimps

Salvation

ISD-2, most likely Avenger, with Gunnery team; backed by Tractor Beam VSDs and Rogue Firesprays

Gunnery Team Akbar, with and without Home One

of the lot, I've only gotten to test TLRC Cr-90s + Salvation (with B-wings, but no boosted comms because poor Escort Nebs can't take em ) and oh boy, they're fun

I'll think of more things as the time comes, but from the Imperial side I can immediately say I expect the following:

• VSD-IIs will become near-obsolete. There's still a good place for VSD-Is, but VSD-IIs will become a rare sight, as ISDs perform the same job for a reasonable price increase and are better modules for the same kinds of upgrades. No ISD can compete with the cheapness and ordnance slot of a VSD-I for what it does (hosting ordnance and/or being a cheap beefcake ship).
• Bringing no squadrons at all is going to be extremely dangerous. Rogues, or at the very least the threat of rogues, will cause big problems that cannot be solved without at least some squadrons to tie up/shoot down the offending craft.

I'll comment when I can actually enjoy Wave 2.

I predict that Kamikaze X-Wings with Ricky Martin will become a thing.

I'll paraphrase (I mean copy-paste) my previous two pennies on the VSD issue (Snipafist, this is unrelated to your post):

I think VSD II's will be great support with ISD II's.

They block the flanks well and can force the game at the same range that the rebel player favors when compared to a VSD I.

As a rebel player, I love VSD I's because I can let them get I to blue range and not be as worried. While the VSD II. . . I can't. . . It out guns me every time. . .

honestly, in a meta which may well be dominated by long range and squadrons, I can understand why people would feel the VSD obsolete...and why they'd be wrong

tractor beams are long range, baby!

VSDs are very apt carriers

VSDs are a fair deal chunkier than their little brothers

more points means more ships in the same space, not to mention new, bigger fish to fry (letting us bring that front-arc to bear like never before)

of course, that's all just the 1. The VSD-2, as previously mentioned, looks to be on its way out. I, however, may be calling that too quickly. After all, a VSD-2 is down 35 points from an ISD-2 and that's not an insignificant margin. Despite the many advantages of the ISD, the VSD-2's price could still leave it a potent medium-range support ship in a meta that might not take to kindly to the blitzing of wave 1. Stacking 6 dice at medium range + bombers is a very nice way to one-round smaller ships.

Plus, it sounds like they'd be a riot with Vader.

only time will tell, ofc, but as of now I'm sticking to the VSD-1 (no way to fit Rogues in, otherwise )

I think VSD II's will be great support with ISD II's.

They block the flanks well and can force the game at the same range that the rebel player favors when compared to a VSD I.

As a rebel player, I love VSD I's because I can let them get I to blue range and not be as worried. While the VSD II. . . I can't. . . It out guns me every time. . .

Perhaps it has to do with my opposition, but I find it the opposite, I can either get into Red Range, or Black Range, never Blue.

That might have to do with my Ramming Speed approach though...

I think VSD II's will be great support with ISD II's.

They block the flanks well and can force the game at the same range that the rebel player favors when compared to a VSD I.

As a rebel player, I love VSD I's because I can let them get I to blue range and not be as worried. While the VSD II. . . I can't. . . It out guns me every time. . .

Perhaps it has to do with my opposition, but I find it the opposite, I can either get into Red Range, or Black Range, never Blue.

That might have to do with my Ramming Speed approach though...

I am getting good reports that the VSD is a bad ship. . . Maybe I am just not that style of person, but I have yet to find a "bad" ship.

My style involves full flank speed and in your face as speedily as possible. I don't foresee using VSDs again unless playing higher points. The ISD can actually keep up with the Glads I usually use as my hammer, and it's pretty hammery itself.

As for fighters, I'm just bringing a screening force. For now....

My predictions are:

1. We will see more guppies on the field

They just synergize well with ackbar, tractor beams and any other crazy combination of wave 2 upgrades

2. More strategic play

We are going to see more specialised lists, rather than "all rounder" type lists. This means there will be less people doing the whole flying into the middle or at each other and hope for the best outcome. Following up from this we will start seeing bids of 7 points or more. With wave 2 being more 'killy' there will be a big primary focus on keeping your ships alive rather than killing the opponents ships.

3. 10-0 and 9-1 tournament wins will be a rare thing to see
You won't see this straight away, most likely after a year at the next next Worlds. But basically because there are more strategic fleet lists you will start seeing it will be near impossible to table a ranking player due to either people seeing no other option but to 5-5 or strategic plays of 'battlegroups' where you can take out one group but not the other by the end of 6 rounds.

4. Opening Salvo, Precision Strike, Fire Lanes, Intel Sweep, Superior Positions (maybe) will be the next big objectives

With the realisation that tabling opponents is going to be harder, getting as much points as possible by other means will be the next big trend. Plus people will soon realise thay Advanced Gunnery isnt that bad for the 1st player....

Now lets see how wrong i will be!

Precision Strike and Superior Positions are already my big objectives though?

Precision Strike and Superior Positions are already my big objectives though?

For you maybe because you are ahead of the game sir, but most people don't take them except maybe for superior positions hence the maybe.

The Big Activation: 4 bombers plus a "sweetspot" shot (front ISD or side mc80) will mean pretty much anything that received it is toasted like a marshmallow at summer camp. A summer camp that's on fire. With friggin lasers.

Rick'Rerollin: rerolls disproportionately affect damage especially when selectively doing so in larger dice pools (i.e. keeping just 1 accuracy in the picture: trying to get my stupid dice simulator to work to get y'all some numbers, but there's a few weird cases/bugs in it atm). Leading shots for an MC80 or vader for ISD's is like taking Salvation for a neb in terms of expected damage and I'll give you the numbers for that when I have it.

ISD's and MC80's put the "kill a shiny new medium in one turn" into the realm of EASY possibility. Motti may see a resurgence over Screed because things keep going kabloomy. Fighters... even disregarding rogue, the wave 1 bombers in those big activations will be enough to scare the fighters into just about every list (e.g. imagine an ISD2 with 4 tie bombers. 4 of every color of the rainbow in your face. And oh yeah, vader gets to reroll 2/3's of them)

The ISD's speed and the fact that the MC80 has broadsides make getting into arc orders of magnitude easier than seeing the VSD do the same. True, those big activations were technically possible before, but much easier to avoid.

ackbar may be the simple reason Rebels don't run squadrons. Dojoing with friends since MoS has proved to me that Rebel squadron support isnt as good as it is for Imperials. Its a tough spot to be in. I currently have like 8 rabbit holes I am traversing for wave 2. I am hoping to get them into a post for you all to enjoy tomorrow. Their is going to be a lot of options in Wave 2 and I am very excited about that. I have been playing Tarkin again and hes such a monster.

I've got big plans for Rebel Aces w/ Reikaan.

Just have played my first 400 point match against myself, and only owning the Raider and Shrimp...

It's fun, but without the large ships, I can't tell much difference. Maybe the choices became less difficult to make as fas as how to load the ships out.

I'm thinking if you go Imperial squadrons, you have to commit to a value above 75pts if you want superiority over Rebel fighters. Rebels can achieve that with 60 or so points of fighters (I ran 3A and 2 Y and beat up a Howlrunner, 2 T/F, 2 T/I) badly).

The Shrimp is a more fun Gladiator that demands respect to get the most out of it. Also don't fear it's speed early or late if you need to close the gap/get a flank early.

The first change is 400 points, that has a whole new dynamic to it.

In the past players have managed to play through and not lose a ship, that will be the biggest change to get used to, you may well now lose ships when in the past you wouldn't have.

ackbar may be the simple reason Rebels don't run squadrons. Dojoing with friends since MoS has proved to me that Rebel squadron support isnt as good as it is for Imperials. Its a tough spot to be in. I currently have like 8 rabbit holes I am traversing for wave 2. I am hoping to get them into a post for you all to enjoy tomorrow. Their is going to be a lot of options in Wave 2 and I am very excited about that. I have been playing Tarkin again and hes such a monster.

Speak for yourself. Double MC80s with Ackbar, tractor beams, and a swarms of Bs here I come.

ackbar may be the simple reason Rebels don't run squadrons. Dojoing with friends since MoS has proved to me that Rebel squadron support isnt as good as it is for Imperials. Its a tough spot to be in. I currently have like 8 rabbit holes I am traversing for wave 2. I am hoping to get them into a post for you all to enjoy tomorrow. Their is going to be a lot of options in Wave 2 and I am very excited about that. I have been playing Tarkin again and hes such a monster.

Speak for yourself. Double MC80s with Ackbar, tractor beams, and a swarms of Bs here I come.

+++ Double Pickle B Roll (400pts) +++

++ Rebel Fleet (Standard) (400pts) ++

+ MC80 Cruiser (281pts) +

MC80 Command Cruiser (163pts) [Phylon Q7 Tractor Beams (6pts), XI7 Turbolasers (6pts), •Admiral Ackbar (38pts), •Home One (7pts)]

MC80 Command Cruiser (118pts) [Phylon Q7 Tractor Beams (6pts), XI7 Turbolasers (6pts)]

+ Squadrons (119pts) +

B-Wing Squadron (14pts)

B-Wing Squadron (14pts)

B-Wing Squadron (14pts)

B-Wing Squadron (14pts)

B-Wing Squadron (14pts)

B-Wing Squadron (14pts)

B-Wing Squadron (14pts)

•Nym (21pts)

+ Objectives +

Assault Objective [Advanced Gunnery]

Defense Objective [Contested Outpost]

Navigation Objective [intel Sweep]

My prediction is that when Wave 2 hits, we'll also get the announcement about Wave 3.

All the speculation will be about how Wave 3 is going to change everything, and people will be agonizing about why Wave 3 isn't here yet.

They will also tell us with certainty that the slowness of Wave 3 to arrive is why this game is not flourishing. In the meantime, this game will be flourishing, but evidence never caused anyone to give up on their favorite gripe.

Or were we talking about how gameplay would change?

The first change is 400 points, that has a whole new dynamic to it.

In the past players have managed to play through and not lose a ship, that will be the biggest change to get used to, you may well now lose ships when in the past you wouldn't have.

This is very true. The table is also more 'cluttered' overall, meaning less empty space for those who like to maneuver. So with more firepower - and longer range - you'll get punished harder for maneuvering mistakes.