I'm a noob so sorry if this has been addressed before. I know the FAQ says that when an effect allows you to add a die to the attack pool it can be a die that is not appropriate for the range of the attack. I'm assuming this is because some upgrade cards direct you which color die to add.

What about during concentrate fire. Can I add any color die I want? Am I allowed to add a black die to an attack being made by a class II VSD or does the added die have to be one the ship has the potential to roll?

Thanks and again I apologize if this has been discussed previously elsewhere.

No. A VSD II has no black dice in its pool, so you can't add another.

But take the Paragon card for example. It lets you (potentially) add a black dice to your second shot. It that triggers, you could add another black dice with CF as you already have a black in your pool.

Same with the Opening Salvo objective (2nd player).

When an effect does not specify a dice color you can only add dice of any color currently in your attack pool.

Concentrate fire tells you to add a dice of a "color that is already in the attack pool". So if you don't have black in the pool, the CF command won't let you add black.

Don't listen to Lyraeus, he's making **** up as usual

The actual rules are:

Rules Reference, page 5:

Concentrate Fire
Dial : Add one attack die to the attack pool. That die
must be of a color that is already in the attack pool.

Correct. Concentrate fire only adds a die to the dicepool of the color that is already in it. So at long range a VSD can only add red.

As Green Knight also mentioned with his example, sometimes you could have multiple rules granting you additional dice such as concentrate fire and upgrade cards. You can choose the order in which to add dice. So if you fire with an Assault Frigate at long range you only have red dice. Using your title (assuming you have it equiped and fire at a target this ship has already fired upon) you can add a black dice. Now your concentrate fire allows you to add a red or black dice.

Don't listen to Lyraeus, he's making **** up as usual

The actual rules are:

Rules Reference, page 5:

Concentrate Fire

Dial : Add one attack die to the attack pool. That die

must be of a color that is already in the attack pool.

Leave my paraphrasing alone!

I'll leave your "paraphrasing" alone when you stop causing new players to learn the game wrong

I'll leave your "paraphrasing" alone when you stop causing new players to learn the game wrong

Nothing I stated was wrong.

Opening Salvo, Defiance, Paragon, Devastator, Dominator and the like all add dice of a specific color and tell you when you can add them.

In the case of the first 3 it is at any range and the last 2 are specified.

Concentrate Fire on the other hand specifies what determines what you get to add.

I'm sorry Ly, but what you said is...

When an effect does not specify a dice color you can only add dice of any color currently in your attack pool.

...which is just BS.

The Concentrate Fire bullet point specifically has a clause specifying that the die you add must be of a color in your attack pool. But that's it, it's not a general rule that applies to any other effect, as you're implying.

Otherwise one could argue that cards such as Defiance or the 2nd player effect of Opening Salvo, neither of which specify a color, would also be limited by your attack pool, which they're obviously not.

Really, is it that hard to answer new players' questions by referring to (and preferably copying) the relevant passage in the rules instead of just spewing out what you think the rules say?

Or, for that matter, to occasionally say...

"Sorry, what I meant is...", or

"Oops, yes, I stand corrected", or

"My bad, thanks for the reference", or

"Ah, interesting, I was interpreting this differently"

...when you make a mistake (which we all do)?

How could you argue that Defiance or Opening Salvo are based on what's in the attack pool? They tell you what to add. Sounds like you are intentionally misreading what I mean or dont get it yourself.

It is pretty easy.

Opening Salvo for second player tells you that you can choose any color of dice so it is specified. Defiance is specified, Concentrate Fire does not specify a color thus you can only choose what's in the pool.

Simple.

/sigh fine I am always wrong and you are always right.

How could you argue that Defiance or Opening Salvo are based on what's in the attack pool? They tell you what to add. Sounds like you are intentionally misreading what I mean or dont get it yourself.

It is pretty easy.

Opening Salvo for second player tells you that you can choose any color of dice so it is specified. Defiance is specified, Concentrate Fire does not specify a color thus you can only choose what's in the pool.

Simple.

/sigh fine I am always wrong and you are always right.

Gentlemen... please... I'm the one who is always right. Even when I'm wrong (XI7s) it turns out I'm right after all

(that was just for the lolz)

I do not want to heat up the discussion but Concentrate fire does state which color. One that is already in the pool. As far as I know there is no general rule that if a rule does not state which color, you must select one in the pool. All the rules that add dice have stated the color, stated that you may choose any, or stated that you may choose any in the dicepool.

How could you argue that Defiance or Opening Salvo are based on what's in the attack pool?

But I'm not! That's entirely the point. Your statement was that the rules say that if a specific color is not indicated, then the chosen color must be one in your attack pool. This is simply not true. My point (as a means to disprove the contested statement) was that, if it were true , then it would apply to Defiance and Opening Salvo, since they don't actually "specify a color" as your imaginary rule requires.

They tell you what to add.

Yes! Exactly like Concentrate Fire. In fact, Concentrate Fire is more specific than either of those.

Sounds like you are intentionally misreading what I mean or dont get it yourself.

Sounds like you're not writing what you mean. Or what the rules say, for that matter.

It is pretty easy.

Yeah, which makes one wonder why you insist on being wrong about it.

Opening Salvo for second player tells you that you can choose any color of dice so it is specified. Defiance is specified, Concentrate Fire does not specify a color thus you can only choose what's in the pool.

1) How is "That die must be of a color that is already in the attack pool" any less specific than "any color"? It's right there in the Concentrate Fire bullet point that I quoted yesterday!

2) Even if the CF paragraph didn't say that, where is your "thus" rule? Where in the rulebook does it establish the causality "if a color is not specified, it must be one already in the pool"? Show me the paragraph and I'll eat humble pie.

Simple.

Indeed!

/sigh fine I am always wrong and you are always right.

I'm wrong very often. But most of the time I double-check before opening my mouth, especially when trying to help people who have a doubt. And when I don't, and it turns out I made a mistake, I will gladly admit it. Try it sometime, it's liberating, and nobody will think any less of you.

It is simple. If something states "any color" then you get to choose ANY color. Simple right. Yet Concentrate Fire states it has to be a color already in the attack pool. Which means my paraphrasing was indeed accurate, because any color is a specification of dice colors. Though I guess it could be distilled better /shrug.

Concentrate Fire which is the only effect that has the sentence "Add one attack die to the attack pool." All the others specify something more.

You have misconstrued my paraphrasing.

As for me saying when I am wrong, I do indeed do this. At this time however my paraphrasing is pretty accurate.

That the outcome is the same in this case doesn't mean the "paraphrasing" is valid. There's simply no blanket rule affecting "unspecified colors" to be restricted in any way - not least because unspecified colors do/should not feature in any game effect. The only reason why CF is restricted to a color already in the pool is because CF itself specifically instructs it. Claiming that the restriction is a general rule, which you have done explicitly above, is not "paraphrasing", it's just wrong .

Try to worm yourself out of this all you like, but please don't confuse new players: the rules for Concentrate Fire are clearly laid out on p.5 and variously quoted above.

Please. Have mercy with me.

Are you asking an Imperial player to show mercy?

Alright, alright

...but the Rulebook is not as forgiving as I am

Don't listen to Lyraeus, he's making **** up as usual

I'll leave your "paraphrasing" alone when you stop causing new players to learn the game wrong

It is actually quite impressive, when someone so active as Lyraeus (who obviously plays this game a lot) still posts things like this. Frequently.

Don't listen to Lyraeus, he's making **** up as usual

I'll leave your "paraphrasing" alone when you stop causing new players to learn the game wrong

It is actually quite impressive, when someone so active as Lyraeus (who obviously plays this game a lot) still posts things like this. Frequently.

Don't paraphrase in the rules forum, quote the rules text. Easy solution.

Guys, don't be too hard on Lyraeus, please.

Most of us learned the game by reading the rulebook, or learning from one who did. When reading different interpretations can arrise and even the most experiences players can can make misstakes. An error can go unnoticed for long time is learned by misstake.

Just quoting the rulebook does not always work because we can all read the rulebook and a lot of question come from people requesting clarification of a part of the rulebook. Of course, quoting the specific line helps, but is not always the answer.

Paraphrasing can help others understand the meaning of a line in the rulebook. But yes, at paraphrasing is the risk of errors, but that risk is also a good thing. This is often the moment an error is revealed.

It is up to us as a community to help each other. Not only by answering questions but also by helping those who answered by correcting errors. That way we all learn.

As for this topic specific: I do believe Lyraeus did make an error in using the concentrate fire rule as a general rule, but I can also understand the error. And since in the game it makes no difference whether you take this as a general rule or only for concentrate fire since every other rule/upgrade granting additional dice state the color. This error does not result in any (dis)advantage or confusement during a game and so there has been no problem with having played it this way.

Let us all just help each other the best way we can, that is what this forum is about and the reason I visit it.

Like I said, we all make mistakes. But when they're brought to your attention, it really doesn't help to insist on being right as a matter of personal honor. We're here to help, not to prove our worth.

I apologize to Lyraeus for my tone, but I do wish that in the future he would quote the actual rules when responding to questions, as he has a habit of misremembering them or making undue generalisations.

I agree with you that copying&pasting from the rulebook is often not enough, unless it's clear that the OP overlooked the relevant passage. But I feel it's necessary, not least to make sure that our own memories are accurate. It's only natural that we remember abstractions of the rules rather than the exact literal wording, so in order to make sure any errors don't spread it really helps to provide the text first and only then, if necessary to clarify its meaning, a paraphrased version.

I thought I'd gravedig this topic instead of making a new one, as the question I'm about to ask directly relates to the topic.

Question is about concentrate fire and double arc / gunnery team: as per my understanding, concentrate fire dial lets you add on die of a color you already have to your attack pool, but what happens when you double arc or use gunnery team to shoot 2 times during 1 activation? do you get to add the bonus die to both attacks or just to one? and what about shooting squadrons? ie: you field a raider I, you concentrate fire on enemy squadrons, do you get to add the bonus die to all your attacks, or just to one attack?