Hi,

Does anyone use the Morality and Conflict rules from Force and Destiny for Force-Sensitive characters in Edge of the Empire? If not, how do you penalise 'Dark Side' behaviour?

I am considering perhaps flipping light side tokens, as then the player's behaviour impacts on the fortunes of the rest of the group, but am not sure if this is the way to go.

Has anyone here used Morality and Conflict with EotE or have their own house-rules?

What's the situation? What are they doing that's bothering you? There may be something else you can do that will be more effective.

While you can use it, Morality/Conflict isn't really a penalty system like it was with other games, so it's very likely that a sleazebag fringer character will look at the Mechanic and be totally fine with going Darkside for the bonuses it offers...

I'm AFB at work... doesn't the FSE assume that the PC is a survivor of Order 66?.. So, use the Morality rules in F&D as the FSE player needs to be aware of the consequences of their actions.

Personally, I'd use the Morality system else I can see a FSE player taking advantage of not having a Dark Side to fall to.. I could see a player regularly abusing their powers during negotions, combat, and everything in between... they get angry and a light side gets flipped... they kill in cold blood and a light side is flipped... they refuse to help someone so a light side point gets flipped... it's no deterrent...

Regardless whether the PC is an escaped Jedi or not, they need to be aware of the Dark Side and it advantages & disadvantages.

I have one player who's character will soon be Force Sensitive (she currently gets occasional "feelings"). I'm planning to use the Morality system, but it's not really that much of a deterrent from Dark Side activity. Obligation is very handy for curbing the worst PC excesses, and works fine for Dark Side actions.

So, as was suggested back when all we had was EotE, introduce a Dark Side Obligation. It should probably only be used at key moments, and if your player isn't doing much to keep his character in check. My guidelines would be for sessions when the character's Morality triggers, when he rolls a Despair while using Dark pips, or when he does something downright evil. Be sure to let the player know ahead of time that this Obligation will be a possibility. If he blows his Morality session and gives into his Dark impulse, it might be time for some Obligation. You can do this instead of OR in addition to the magnified Morality adjustment. That will depend on your group and the game you're trying to encourage.

When the Obligation triggers, the character can be described as having dark dreams with a short temper. Much like morality, give him a situation where choosing the Dark Side would be quick and easy. If he chooses the Light, reduce the Obligation, if he goes Dark, increase it.

As most PCs in EotE are criminals or at least a bit shady, and intended to be, it would be unfair to subject them to such a strict behavioural code as the one propagated in FnD. They're not supposed to be shining heroes.

But, I will flip a DP for any disgustingly atrocious behaviour, regardless of the perpetrator.

Always make sure that the other players don't have reason to get pissed at the force-user, only because their condition is hampering the others' free development.

First of all any Force User can be a FS Exile, the point is they are Force Sensitive and in hiding, actually they are quite good at hiding. They don't have to be a O66 survivor, they could be completely untrained, or part of a non Jedi tradition.

Second, being Dark Side does not mean killing all who walk before you. Playing a Dark Side character is a very real possibility in this system, and a hell of a lot of fun. It can easily be that your character is a cloak and dagger type, or a mind control type. Perhaps with a short temper, but in a lot of edge groups that may actually fit well. Being Dark Side also doesn't mean you have no friends or obligations.

Third, most of Cannon is made in the assumption that the Protagonists are "good guys" doing things to beat the "bad guys" now whilst a Dark Sider is unlikely to last long in the rebellion, they would last less time in the Empire thanks to Inquisitors and Darth Vader himself.

In my mind this all leads to the Morality system working very well in EotE. If your a party of murder hobos out for themselves only the an "Good" PC will not fit in, but a Dark Side user will just fine. On the flip side if your a party of Strugglers trying to make a better Galaxy then any "Bad" PC won't fit, but a LightSide User will fit like a charm.

So if your character has similar goals to your group then it's going to be fine, Morality adds a great depth to a character. But any PC with morals different to the Party is going to feel like an outsider, weather they are Force Sensetive or not.

i would advise to use the morality system if possible. it's not perfect, but it's a guideline and workable. my group uses it, even though we play with eote/aor characters only. my force sensitive exile is the only force user.

if you don't use it you have to come up with a way to "punish" (or reward, as the case my be) a character who regularly acts like a dark side user, as the only mechanical effects don't really reflect the dangers of falling to the dark side well if you don't use morality/conflict.

i'd do two different things, depending on whether the player wants to be evil or not. in the first case i handle i'd handle it mostly in a narrative way and would switch to them using dark side blips once we have established that the character has gone fully "dark side". the story would be the focus and the outcome would be clear.

in case character just wants to be a "normal" jedi, or maybe being a "grey" force user, i'd try to monitor their actions in relation to the force. i'd then use strain, destiny tokens and maybe setback dice for mechanical effect (more strain and destiny tokens than just how they are used when flipping a dark side blip). if a player goes too far in my view, i'd warn them with dark side-appropriate visions that they are going down a dark path. maybe even go so far as to have them make discipline checks in certain situations to see if they are in control of their emotions or not. if a player uses violence to solve all his problems he will turn into a violent character if he is not careful, even if the player might not wish this to happen.

whatever you do, work closely with the players and talk about how they and you both view these aspects of the force.

it's quite tricky and might seem a lot of work if you don't have force users as the main focus of the group.

Thanks for all the excellent advice here.

The character in question is a force-sensitive exile - untrained and from a backwater world. The trouble is he tends to lean towards violence as always the best solution to a situation, including the physical torturing of captives. I have roleplayed this by saying "As with Han in ESB, any torture in this campaign happens offscreen. The camera pans away..." then we make a roll to see if any information was extracted. I have also explained that the group will get a bad rep if word of this gets out, but this then makes him think that killing all prisoners might be best.

While dealing with this in game is obviously the best solution, I think I do need a rules system I can fall back on - one that imposes a potential penalty, so that a potentially Dark Side act needs a bit of consideration before being committed.

I'm going to have a look at the Morality rules - are they only in the F&D rulebook?

yep, they are in force & destiny.

and let me tell you, a character that regularly tortures people will fall to the dark side pretty quickly with those rules!

it looks to me like the player wants to play a dark side character and most likely already does. he's just not aware of it.

the mechanical effects of being a dark side user are not that extreme (use dark side blips to activate powers, flip a destiny token at the beginning of the game, reduced strain when you are really bad), both player and gm have to provide narrative input to make the difference tangible.

Just as Shlominus said, he should be playing a dark side character. You have been narating the bad things already and I'm guessing the group is ok with what he does, or at least sees a use for him and they tolerate it.

This system really is made to allow players to play Dark Side characters, if your group do pick up s copy of FaD then definitely use morality in his situation, it would be particularly useful if he wants to play out the characters redemption.

In the meantime use the side bar in EotE about being a Dark Sider (it's intended for NPC's but nothing says a PC can't do it!) I'll get a page number later when not afb

Second, being Dark Side does not mean killing all who walk before you. Playing a Dark Side character is a very real possibility in this system, and a hell of a lot of fun. It can easily be that your character is a cloak and dagger type, or a mind control type. Perhaps with a short temper, but in a lot of edge groups that may actually fit well. Being Dark Side also doesn't mean you have no friends or obligations.

I'm totally down for certain types of Dark Siders. As I've said before, Tywin Lannister and The Hound are welcome at my table. The Mountain that Rides and anyone from the Bolton family are not.

[...] The Mountain that Rides and anyone from the Bolton family are not.

Not even Fat Walda?

[...] The Mountain that Rides and anyone from the Bolton family are not.

Not even Fat Walda?

Depends, do I get an entry fee equal to her weight in silver?

Thanks everyone for the help and advice. We've been playing a different game for the past couple of months but are returning to my EotE campaign next week. I'll let you know how we get on.