PDR makes a blue die go from 50% hits to 62.5% hits. On Black-Blue it means you go from 87.5% to 90.6% chance of at least one hit and from 37.5% to 46.9% for two hits.

I mean, I guess it isn't terrible, but the fact that it only works at Close Range is the problem. You will still only have a single 50% chance hit at Medium Range.

And the thing is, will those 10pts you spent on PDR and QL be more effective than getting a fifth TIE?

On a more serious note, I'm not sure I'd put Quad Laser Turrets on my no-fly list. I agree there are ships where they're not particularly useful (probably on a Glad, though after yesterday I'm reconsidering; since counter uses blue dice, I'm also not as high on them on the Raider as I was when I thought you could counter 1 with a black die). QLTs are a guaranteed hit against squadrons on a Warlord with H-9s (albeit, also a significant investment), each time you get shot at. Against a TIE swarm, that's incredible. Against an A-wing swarm it's passable. Against a Rhymer Ball it's... uh, nothing. So yeah... it's not the answer to squadron-heavy lists, but it's a start! (Well, against most of them). Take a Vic I carrier Warlord with Gunnery Teams, H-9s and Quads (73 + 7 + 8 + 8 + 5 = 101) with four TIEs (32), and that's fairly credible anti-squadron cornerstone (plus a Vic), with 2/3 of your fleet points available to season to taste.

Of course, it means not taking boosted comms or hanger bays, so there's an opportunity cost to consider. If you have it on an ISD I and wanted to deter squadrons from rushing you, you could conceivably have Quads + comms/hangers.

Or, if you really wanted to mix things up, you could add point defense reroute to reroll crits on your blue dice for each QL counter or anti-squadron battery. With black-blue anti-squadron + PDR on an ISD I, that's a pretty decent chance at 2 hits each round (75% on the black, 50% + 25% chance at another 50% on the blue) and three if a squadron shoots you. It won't vaporize anything but TIEs in a single round, but since many squadrons top out at one damage per round against ships, most bombers top out at two damage per round against ships, and only Keyan can exceed 3 damage max per round, 66-75% odds at getting 2-3 damage on each squadron that nears/attacks you, each time it nears/attacks you, seems like a pretty good damage exchange (and, in the alternative, the realistic threat of 2-3 damage per squadron seems like a pretty good deterrent to squadrons swarming your point sink ships). At just 10 points, that seems like a decent price point for me. Add your own defensive TIE screen to the mix (4 cheap TIEs at 32 points, to take advantage of the ISD I's innate squadron value of 4), and that's going to be a tough (and painful) nut to crack, even for B's and sillies/scurggs/synonyms. I definitely like my chances against an A swarm that costs twice as much (88 points for 8 A-wings). Even if the TIE screen never shoots at the A's, the ISD has a pretty good chance at whittling the group down to 1-2 health by the time the TIE screen gives out, a good chance at seriously damaging any A that does get a shot in on the ISD, and a good chance at wiping any part of the swarm that sticks around at distance 1 for another round. A single-purposed B-cloud (or 6-health sillies/firesprays) will probably still win the war of attrition in the end, but that's still not a bad return on investment for 42 points (QL + PDR + 4 TIEs), in my opinion.

Just a thought. Not saying it's the answer, just that QLTs (and PDRs, I guess) might have some unexplored potential. Since apparently we live in a "squadron-heavy meta" now.

It's the best idea thus far. Keep it coming!

PDR makes a blue die go from 50% hits to 62.5% hits. On Black-Blue it means you go from 87.5% to 90.6% chance of at least one hit and from 37.5% to 46.9% for two hits.

I mean, I guess it isn't terrible, but the fact that it only works at Close Range is the problem. You will still only have a single 50% chance hit at Medium Range.

And the thing is, will those 10pts you spent on PDR and QL be more effective than getting a fifth TIE?

Agreed, it's certainly not a failsafe answer to squadrons, nor is it a no-brainer. There's lots to sort through here, to be sure. My only point is that I think there's enough potential in here to make it worth sorting through in the first place.

There are two considerations at play here: total effectiveness of the combo (average/anticipated damage, max damage, and odds at damage), and opportunity cost (taking one/both upgrades over other upgrades in their upgrade class, and spending 5-10 points on this combo vs. 5-10 points on some other combination of upgrades or another TIE).

The effectiveness of the combo here is more straightforward to discuss (thanks for the percentages by the way, I have a fairly good impression of what increases odds based on gameplay, but am bad at calculating them on my own). I'm not inclined to take PDR on their own (too dependent on being targeted, then on dice rolls). I'd consider Quad Laser Turrets (QLTs) on their own over Point Defense Reroute (PDR), just because if I'm attacked by squadrons, I get free dice (which, at the very least, is a deterrent to being attacked), and if the opponent doesn't have squadrons, I'm just out 5 points. But even then, taking something like expanded hangers or boosted comms seems like a better use of the offensive retrofit slot.

To me, the QLT + PDR combo seems better than the sum of its parts taken individually. QLTs gives as many extra blue dice as your ISD takes shots (which, against bomber builds, will be a lot). If your ship is attacked by 3+ squadrons, you'll get the same amount or more free dice as the TIE fighter you gave up to equip them. PDR gives dice control on as many dice as there are blue crits (and on as many free blue dice as there are blue crits). If I'm anticipating that my capital ship is going to be a target for squadrons, 10 points to modify existing dice, and to add free dice, and to modify free dice, seems like a cheap counter/deterrent.

The opportunity cost is far more complicated to figure out. An additional TIE will be more effective at tying up a squadron (since an ISD can't do that at all) and at burst squadron damage (max damage at 3, better odds at 2 damage with Swarm, and is itself a Swarm trigger). Against all-ship opponents, it has speed and a dice to throw around, which isn't fabulous in isolation, but isn't nothing either (like QLTs/PDRs would be against ships). The difference is that a TIE, at a measly three hull, has far less staying power than QLTs + PDR on an 11-14 hull ISD. And that's not even considering the opportunity cost of taking QLTs + PDRs over Boosted Comms + Expanded Hangers (which compete for the same upgrade slots). Obviously the direction you want to take your fleet will be important here.

That said, I think unlocking the full potential of this combo depends on using both upgrades, in combination with a fighter screen. But because the base price of the combo is so low (and the Empire has fabulously cheap squadrons), you can afford to do that. The QLT + PDR + 4 TIE combo is a paltry 42 points (50 if you wanted the five TIE compliment, though you may be looking at activation issues at that point), and offers the best of both worlds for less than a Raider--an offensive, mobile fighter force to tie down enemy squadrons/ping enemy ships in squadron-less builds; or a defensive fighter screen to eat fire from enemy bomber clouds while the ISD gets a free round (or more) of shots in, and a move (or more), before the bomber attack comes. ISD I + Gunnery Teams + QLT + PDR + 4 TIEs = 159. Flank the ISD and TIEs with two Raider Is with Ordnance Experts or two naked Raider IIs, each with its own TIE (96 + 16 points), and that's 271 points total. If a bomber cloud goes for the ISD, that's 18 blues from the 6 TIEs + Black-Blue from the ISD (with PDR rerolls) + black-black-black-black or black-blue-black-blue from the two Raiders (maybe with Ordnance Expert rerolls), followed up by counter 1 from the ISD (with PDR rerolls) for anything that manages to get a shot in. Maybe Boba Fett's 6-hull/double-brace ship survives one round within distance 1 of that ISD, but generic Bombers/B's are going to be shredded quickly.

That leaves Rhymer, but even against him, you have options. Tie his cloud up early (sorry, no pun intended, just unavoidable) with the six TIEs and converge with the Raiders while the ISD moves closer. The next round, shoot with the Raiders (black-black, black-black) and boogie out while the bombers are still chewing through the six ties. When they're done (and it will be a while... like, a long while...), your ISD has had 1-2 turns to either pursue its primary target, or to move within distance one of the stagnant cloud, and is now sitting there, guns bristling. Even if Rhymer retreats at that point, your ISD has a blue anti-squadron barrage dice to keep him and his cronies at bay as the ISD glides past them. If the cloud camps, you have two Raiders lurking to circle around and shepherd him away from (or towards???) your ISD.

The real selling point for me is that the combo is so inexpensive. Even with a commander (well, not Tarkin), you can field the above list in 300 point matches (295 with Motti), and in 400 point matches, there's more than 100 points to fill out what you think you're missing (though you already have three speed 3-4 ships, six squadrons, black dice out the whazoo, and a squadron shredder if you fly in the right formation, so there's not much you're missing at that point). All of the above, plus Motti and a fully kited out Demolisher (on a GSD II, of course, to keep the anti-squadron theme), with Ordnance Experts, Montferrat, ACMs, Demolisher, and Engine Techs (24 + 96 points) runs 391. Unfortunately (for this build, at least) you can't put QLTs on the Demolisher... but there have to be limits, I suppose. Drop the GSD II and Montferrat for a GSD I (prioritizing efficiency instead of theme), and that leaves 20 points for two more TIE fighters, your own Rhymer, two TIE Bombers, or even a Firespray/Aggressor/Dengar if you're so inclined (speaking of messing with a Rhymer ball... 6 TIEs + Dengar + a two Raider pincer = sheer madness).

Bottom line, I think there's unexplored potential here, at a low enough cost that it's not prohibitive to explore it. If your ISD gets shot at by bombers (and it will), you hit back. Hard. If a bomber cloud avoids your ISD because they're afraid of taking damage, you hit something else. Hard. Makes 14 hull ISDs that much harder to take down, and against Ackbar, any damage an ISD can deter/avoid/kabosh seems like a net-plus.

Could this ISD be taken with with the 'most wanted' mission card, and force people into needing to shoot at it?

Could this ISD be taken with with the 'most wanted' mission card, and force people into needing to shoot at it?

If you're the second player, then yes it could. The Most Wanted errata doesn't give boosts to squadrons that attack the objective ship anymore, but the objective ship is still worth double points, so there's still incentive for squadrons to shoot at it. Second player gets to choose the objective ships, so if you're second player, you could definitely tag the ISD as your objective ship if you wanted to do so.