other games from this era with flight, like the Axis and Allies type games?

Well it is a tactical game where the moves are planned, not a strategic game where you move your soldiers. The closest similarity is with Blue Max and I guess it is the source of inspiration for this game.

Yes, our games owes a lot to many tactical simulations of the '70s and '80s, and Blue Max among them.

Here some details:

http://www.boardgamegeek.com/geeklist/4912

Have fun!

Andrea

Oh, yes. I play Blue max, best flight game ever made. And I use the Wings of war planes for it, they are perfect for the job even though you need the base from 2 planes to get the altitude levels right.

Anyways you guys that play this game should really try it, the game in itself is free nowadays, you just need your Wow planes, a hexagon map, a printer, some paper and 2 D6.

Here is a link to all the rules: www.eaglesmax.com/eagles_news.html

The game was originally made as a boardgame by GDW but the creator of it have changed it a lot since then and now it is totally free, and since the game fits perfectly in 1/144 FFs nice miniatures are the main ones we use nowadays, together with some red Eagle models from early 1916 and a few odd ones as bombers and so on.

The big difference from Wow is that Blue max are made to be played with many people, it is most fun with 8-20 players so it is a perfect alternative when you can get many people, if you just get a few Wow is funnier. BM is more fast paced and not so dependant on cards, you do use cards for damage but that's about it.

You really miss out if you like flight games and havn't tried this

Hello!

I played Blue Max a lot and I really like it. It has been one of the games I really consider masterpieces, and milestones in game design. I own both the first GDW English edition (the full color counters were outstanding and far better than any other on the market at that time) and the Italian Stratelibri one. I demoed it in Roman shops in the early '80s, I positively reviewed it on Italian magazines and fanzines, in Italy it was played by mail with a ruleset that I published on a couple of fanzines. I am very proud that Phil Hall, Blue Max author, joined the WoW discussion group founded by the fans oif the game:

http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/wow_nexus/

I find Blue Max (the publioshed version I mean) a more complex game (there is a 10 phases turn...), far more centred on dogfights (while WoW allows recon/bombing/strafing/Balloon busting missions with AA guns, infantry fire and air-to air rockets), totally close on Western front (no Russian/Italian/Turkish/Rumenian/Bulgarian planes and no 1919 and later conflicts). Some of the added details allowed by that complexity is interesting (as ammo and reloading), some are less so in my personal opinion (we gave up the idea of hit locations as in BM, Air Force and many air war simulations after some deep discussions with our historical consulents).

Main technical differences are the hexgrid and the fact that in Blue Max you choose a complete path for your turn and fire after executing it, while in WoW you build the path combining three cards and you fire twice during the turn and a third one at the end. In my opinion the hex grid makes BM more a "digital" experience and the free table make WoW more an "analogical" one. Bluffing in BM is sometime more abstract, when you calculate all possible positions and facings of the enemy, while in WoW this kind of calculation is less abstract and precise. On the other hand, WoW requires some precision and firm hand to be played well, and as all 3D wargames some chivalrous aptitude by players every now and then when the ruler "almost touches" a target.

I think that the free table and the step-by-step building of the turn give some more realism even if WoW is simplier. A little sideby effect of the hexgrid, and of the narrow front cone of fire of planes (you can hit only in the row of hexes in front of you), is that in Blue Max sometime two planes are at two or three hexes from each other, fully in range of each other, but on different hex rows so there is no way that they can face each other and fire - I don't like this so much.

An effect of the full turn planning instead of the step-by-step one is also that in BM, as in every plan-all-your-turn-and-the-execute-it-and-only-then-fire games, two planes could be in the field of fire of each other during the turn, but if they are not in that position at the end of the turn they can not fire each other at all: let's take the example of a Snipe and a D.VII that are flying parallel in the same direction at two hexes of distance and turn 180° toward each other (24L3 and 24R3 moves). At the end of the turn they are again flying parallel in the same direction at two hexes of distance. They actualy flew on the same path, one against the other, and met in mid air, but they did not exchange a single bullet. Now put a Wings of War Snipe and a D.VII parallel to each other at 18 cm of distance or so (the same situation). Plan for each of them three standard 60° turns toward each other. You will see them going one against each other, exchange a fast and furious short range shot of two damage cards after the first curve, pass one over the other at the second card and then be parallel again after the third one. A bit more realistic IMHO.

This step-by-step system allows also to do without a deflection rule. The deflection rules, in BM and other games, gives bonuses/penalties to fire if planes are going in the same direction or in different ones because this change the time in which the target is in the field of fire: if you go inm the same direction you are in the aim of the firer for more time, if the paths are at an angle you are in the field of fire for less. But this is just a way to put a remedy for the fact that you don't take trace of all the movement during the turn, so you try to make "a guess of what happened" from the final positions of the planes. In WoW you actually take notice of what happens during the turn: if a plane is in the field of fire of the plane along all its path it get fired three times (3 damage cards at long range, 6 at short range), while if it gets into the field of fire just at the end of the turn it get fired only once (1 or 2 cards). Less need to see the angle. It also better simulates if they are going in the same direction (probably in WoW the target get fired 3 times, and if the speeds are similar at the same range and if not at changing range) or in opposite ones (probably the two planes exchange a couple of bursts at decreasing range before they cross each other), while usually deflection rules treat the two cases in the same way.

All in all I prefer the WoW system, but that's obvious. And there is no merit in having a slightly more realistic system, since I had the chance to play Blue Max and several other great games (Ace of Aces, Wings, Dawn Patrol, Sopwith, Richthofen's War, Air Force, Gunslinger and several more) before designing mine. I am a dwarf over the shoulders of giants.

I do not agree with you when you say that "BM is more fast paced and not so dependant on cards, you do use cards for damage but that's about it." Since you can always choose among all yor maneuvre cards in WoW, there is no "card dependance" in moving. Both games have chance when you fire and for jamming (in WoW with cards, in Blue Max with dice and tokens), but for the rest there is no luck in WoW. Maybe there is a bit more luck in Blue Max since you roll dice for a few marginal stuff like unjamming, extinguish fire and such, but that's not a fault - it's a matter of tastes.

A final note: I do not think that the number of players is a real difference. I played WoW in 20+ at the same time several times and I find it fun. Even in 47, at the LeiriaCon in Portugal in Januyary 2008. One of the goals in designing WoW hgas been to have a simple and fastr game as Ace of Aces, but far easier to play in a lot of people at the same time as in certain massive dogfights of WWI. The lack of a hexgrid makes things easier: just find a table/carpet/floor/no traffic square big enough... and play. Of course you need several boxes or additional boosters... Unless you use the home rule of writing down the turn plan, as explained here:

http://www.wingsofwar.it/read.asp?id=1302

You can then play in many people with just one box.

Thanks a lot for your post and... Thumbs up forever for Blue Max!

Yeah, it is true that you can pass eachother without fire in blue max, you could of course make some custom rule that you move 1 square at the time and check if you can fire but that will slow down the time the game takes to play.

You should really check out what happened to blue max the last few years, the whole random mission ideas are actually very nice and you have stuff like scrambles, balloon bursting, Artillery fire directing, strafing and more.

The hexagons are however the downside to Blue max, as I see it both games are worth playing but I played BM with 20 players in a 11/2 hour game, maybe you are a lot faster than me but Wow with that number seems to take more time (but of course I never played ow with so many players, I think I will try it at next gaming convention. I am kinda a noob to Wow, just bought it recently and still havn't gotten all boxes, a lot of items are currently sold out at my gaming stores.

As I said, both games do use a lot of similar equipment so therefor I play both. A 2 sided map with Hexagons on one side doesnt costs that much and can be found here: www.hotzmats.com/ Then you just need to printout some papers and make damage bricks for BM and Voila, you have double the fun

I also like the experience points in BM, dunno if there is anything like it in any Wow expansion. Yeah, I really like WW1 dogfighting.

Pour Le Merite said:

Well, nice idea but it needs some specifications about facing during the move and it does not seems to work very fine if the speeds are different.

Pour Le Merite said:

For WWII they are in The Dawn of the World War II. For WWI they are here:

http://www.wingsofwar.it/read.asp?id=1273

Thanks for all and happy gaming!

Andrea