Is a multi Raider build viable?

By mrFlibble801, in Star Wars: Armada

Not officially. There are some individual card-sellers on Ebay, but the most desired cards are the ones unique to expansions...

At the moment, that's Flight Controllers and XI-7 Turbolasers, but I'm sure when the Raider hits, that'll include things like Expanded Launchers...

Played my first match ever with a raider yesterday, pairing it with a monster ISD in a 300 point match, and holy hell can that little bugger maneuver! I'm probably going to aim for having 3-5 of these in my box, they can be a great "sheepdog" force against rebel corvette spam lists. I actually used mine as a bump-missile to take out a corvette that needed one more hit (I soloed it down with Bossk) and it was the most fun thing. I can see a list with 3 or 4 raiders with minimum upgrades, a monster ship killer ISD and a few pinning fighters or rogues as a thing in wave 2, can use the raiders in a pack to block conga lines and T up the ISD or chase corvettes into a corner, or just dump 3 or 4 of them into a cluster of fighters and just shred them. At the very least it would be a blast.

So if I'm running the Expanded Launchers Raiders what fleet Admiral would you suggest.

Also, is there a place where I can get just the Expanded Launchers card so I don't have to buy for more Gladiators just for one card.

Vader

Close to short range, concentrate fire, roll five black, two blue.

Don't like your results? Spend an evade token to re-roll any you don't like.

Still not totally satisfied? Use Ordnance Experts to re-roll the black dice AGAIN.

I have reliably put out 8 dmg with an accuracy this way. The little guy can punch WELL above his weight.

Edited by Tvayumat

So if I'm running the Expanded Launchers Raiders what fleet Admiral would you suggest.

Vader for damage potential.

Motti if you just want to go fairly generic.

Ozzel if you want to go from 2 to 4 speed on a dime.

Tarkin if you want to double up on tokens + command dials.

Also, is there a place where I can get just the Expanded Launchers card so I don't have to buy for more Gladiators just for one card.

Unfortunately there is not. Online retailers of single cards have a hard time keeping unique upgrades (those from just one box) in stock. It's sad.

So if I'm running the Expanded Launchers Raiders what fleet Admiral would you suggest.

Vader for damage potential.

Motti if you just want to go fairly generic.

Ozzel if you want to go from 2 to 4 speed on a dime.

Tarkin if you want to double up on tokens + command dials.

Also, is there a place where I can get just the Expanded Launchers card so I don't have to buy for more Gladiators just for one card.

Unfortunately there is not. Online retailers of single cards have a hard time keeping unique upgrades (those from just one box) in stock. It's sad.

This will change as the game grows. Its just not worth spending like $20 buying for e.g. a Neb B to sell the XI7s for 5 and the Intel officers for 3 or 4, there isn't much of a modder/painter market for just the model and stand (i've noticed the "no upgrade card" ship sellers drying up). You'd have to find a way to get them at cost to bust them up and then its hardly worth the effort cause you'd make more hawking them for MSRP with less effort.

I'll also note that in friendly games you're welcome to proxy upgrades or simply bring one card and note "hey, all my Xs have this Y upgrade, I don't feel like blowing $50 just on cards."

Speaking for myself alone, I wouldn't even care if you did it in a tournament. I'm sure somebody would, and they'd have the official FFG rules on their side and then you might be looking at a disqualification. Talk it over with your TO first if you're considering trying something like that.

I'll also note that in friendly games you're welcome to proxy upgrades or simply bring one card and note "hey, all my Xs have this Y upgrade, I don't feel like blowing $50 just on cards."

Speaking for myself alone, I wouldn't even care if you did it in a tournament. I'm sure somebody would, and they'd have the official FFG rules on their side and then you might be looking at a disqualification. Talk it over with your TO first if you're considering trying something like that.

I'd be in the same camp with you for tournament play. As long as you have sufficient points to sport the upgrade, and have at least one of each card available for rule checking if needed, I'm good. But I understand why FFG would want people to have the actual cards at official tournaments. :)

I don't know, I feel like it's unreasonable to expect to proxy anything at all in any officially sanctioned and/or supported event. Generally speaking, I feel like it's bad form to do so even in friendly games on a regular basis (exceptions of course for unreleased product, temporary testing of skew/expensive build, etc).

Admittedly, this may be a product of my background: I've never played a miniatures game before, and come from the world of card games where it's bizarre to even suggest proxying. At least, it was in my communities.

I don't know, it's just really weird to me NOT to expect to pay the developer for products you're using.

Look at it from an economic point of view: I'm pretty sure most of the overhead for FFG is not the raw materials of the cards and models, but in the development and sustainment costs related to developing game mechanics. Those costs are (effectively) unrelated to the number of models they sell, which means they recoup costs by selling models. If people were allowed to proxy without restriction, they would sell fewer models, which would drive up the prices of each individual expansion pack significantly, creating a much larger barrier to entry for new players and thus limiting the growth of an already niche community.

So,I think it's really a good thing for everybody involved that proxying not be allowed. Obviously individual circumstances will vary, and it's for your local group to determine what standards they'll enforce based on your own individual circumstances. I look at it as related to buying from my FLGS vs buying online: yeah, it costs more, but I'm paying for more than just the model: I'm paying to support the community at large, all of the accoutrements associated with enabling everybody to have a good time together.

Sorry, I really didn't mean to soap box it up here... Just something I happen to have put some thought into. :)

Edited by Ardaedhel

The flip side to the supporting the community argument is that some individuals are on a limited budget. So allowing them to proxy may be the difference between them even being in the game at all. So you have the choice between lots of folks potentially not buying quite as much per person, or just a few folks who each buy a lot. It may actually be more profitable for local stores to "allow" casual proxy. Of course, once you're into official tournaments at a certain level enforcing no-proxy probably does mean more sales as the tournament players tend to be "dedicated ". Or they just borrow.

I have this Raiderlist that i'm dieing to try out. It consists of 5 Raiders and one Gladiator (with engine Techs) with the admiral that lets you change speed by an additional 1. I just have to beat the rebels in their game and will throw constantly navigation commands around.

I have a list with 6 with assault proton torpedos. its pure jank and 2 raiders can in theory kill an AF with 2 hull shots, ordance experts and a ram but i need to trade ahead to make it work. I think in a balanced list, 2 raiders is probably the way ill. Use them as chasers and to hunt down anything that gets around the fronts of my isd.

Crit-centric Raiders aren't as good as you might think with re-rolls.

You really want Screed if you're going to be running a bunch of APT or ACMs.

The Raider just doesn't have enough black OR blue dice to score reliable crits on a single re-roll.

Screed is the guarantee. Well, mostly... if you Screed to get that elusive crit and your opponent has Mon Mothma, you can still lose the crit even with Screed on an evade reroll (I think I have the timing of those rerolls correct). But absent that contingency, Screed is the guarantee. Vader is a second chance at a reroll (Ordnance Experts is the first reroll, for free), at the cost of an evade token; if you have a CF token banked, you could possibly get a third. One would think one would land at least one hit-crit on up to three selective rerolls... but Screed is the guarantee (well, mostly). :D If you aren't crit-fishing (i.e., you take Expanded Launchers instead of a crit trigger like ACMs/APTs), Screed is less necessary (though still useful if you have other crit triggers, like Overload Pulse). Motti or Ozzel (or even Tarkin, since you're looking at six ships at that point) are viable alternatives if you go that direction.

The larger question I have about the Raider spam isn't so much their damage output (rerollable black dice are going to land hits, especially if you increase the number of dice as has already been suggested), but rather their effective range. CR-90 spam is a thing, in part, because all those corvette As can shoot at targets up to a foot away from any hull zone. A spam of Raider Is is going to need to be much closer to get optimal damage. Against slower targets like Vics and MC-80s, it will be like a pack of wolves closing in (if the Raiders can survive the approach, the target is probably going down). Against faster, more nimble targets that shoot black dice (Glad packs, shrimp... er... whatever shrimp hunt in), everyone wants to be in that brawling range, so it probably comes down to who activates what when. Nimble targets that attack at long range (Corvette swarm, AFIIs, Ackbar-enhanced speed-3 Neb conga line?) may prove difficult to catch for a Raider I swarm (or at least to catch with your black dice). A Raider II swarm has a little more reach, but at that point, you're lacking the raw damage that makes the Raider a serious threat to enemy ships.

I was thinking about this too, then i noticed that the Raiders can fit the Tractor Beam. ;)

I have a list with 6 with assault proton torpedos. its pure jank and 2 raiders can in theory kill an AF with 2 hull shots, ordance experts and a ram but i need to trade ahead to make it work. I think in a balanced list, 2 raiders is probably the way ill. Use them as chasers and to hunt down anything that gets around the fronts of my isd.

Crit-centric Raiders aren't as good as you might think with re-rolls.

You really want Screed if you're going to be running a bunch of APT or ACMs.

The Raider just doesn't have enough black OR blue dice to score reliable crits on a single re-roll.

Screed is the guarantee. Well, mostly... if you Screed to get that elusive crit and your opponent has Mon Mothma, you can still lose the crit even with Screed on an evade reroll (I think I have the timing of those rerolls correct). But absent that contingency, Screed is the guarantee. Vader is a second chance at a reroll (Ordnance Experts is the first reroll, for free), at the cost of an evade token; if you have a CF token banked, you could possibly get a third. One would think one would land at least one hit-crit on up to three selective rerolls... but Screed is the guarantee (well, mostly). :D If you aren't crit-fishing (i.e., you take Expanded Launchers instead of a crit trigger like ACMs/APTs), Screed is less necessary (though still useful if you have other crit triggers, like Overload Pulse). Motti or Ozzel (or even Tarkin, since you're looking at six ships at that point) are viable alternatives if you go that direction.

The larger question I have about the Raider spam isn't so much their damage output (rerollable black dice are going to land hits, especially if you increase the number of dice as has already been suggested), but rather their effective range. CR-90 spam is a thing, in part, because all those corvette As can shoot at targets up to a foot away from any hull zone. A spam of Raider Is is going to need to be much closer to get optimal damage. Against slower targets like Vics and MC-80s, it will be like a pack of wolves closing in (if the Raiders can survive the approach, the target is probably going down). Against faster, more nimble targets that shoot black dice (Glad packs, shrimp... er... whatever shrimp hunt in), everyone wants to be in that brawling range, so it probably comes down to who activates what when. Nimble targets that attack at long range (Corvette swarm, AFIIs, Ackbar-enhanced speed-3 Neb conga line?) may prove difficult to catch for a Raider I swarm (or at least to catch with your black dice). A Raider II swarm has a little more reach, but at that point, you're lacking the raw damage that makes the Raider a serious threat to enemy ships.

I was thinking about this too, then i noticed that the Raiders can fit the Tractor Beam. ;)

Unfortunately, those tractor beams will only work on small ships, so you would have some match ups where they literally do nothing, and in most match ups they'll be rather limited in their target selection (Gladiators, other Raiders, CR90s, Nebulon-Bs).