Hello,

Is this squad efective, your thougts about problems and how to improve it :

SCUM :
Agressor IG88-A - Fire control System, Marksmanship, Tactical Jammer (41pt);
M3-A Serissu - Ion Cannon, Predator, Stealth Device (31pt);
M3-A Tansarii point Veteran - Ion Cannon, Lone Wolf, Stealth Device(27pt).

Total : 100pt

Thanks.

My initial thought is to ask who is Serissu protecting? With Lone Wolf on the other M3-A you won't want to fly there, and I find it difficult to fly a small ship close to a large ship, especially one that's suited for arc dodging.

By your title "...start from Scum" are you sying that most of your ships are Scum?

The best way to find out how effective a build is would be to play test it!

I plan to fly with Serissu behind Agressor.

The Tansarii point veteran will be flanker.

I like to have 1-2 ion cannons in squads, because like to control movement of oponents. This is all theory.

I will buy this ships, but before like to get some information from real players. Maybee my plan looks good on paper, but do not work in real.

Agressor will give the Serissu 1 extra Evade dice.

Ah, I mistook Tactical Jammer for Sensor Jammer, a silly mistake considering you can't have Fire Control and Sensor Jammer together. the Agressor I've been working on is IG-88B with Fire Control System, Opportunist, and a Cannon. Can't settle on how to fill out the rest of it.

That is some pretty good thinking though with the Aggressor and Serissu both giving each other an extra green and I definitely agree with your preference for ion weapons. Although I usually go with Ion Turrets on Y-Wings, I definitely like locking my target down so they don't give me trouble. Maybe also stress with Flechette to deprive action in addition to movement?

Once they're ion'd though you might float by since your M3-A's don't have a 1-straight and Aggressor is large base...

Thats why i have two Ion cannons in list, both can fire from different sides. If my Agressor and Serissu can Ion and set fire on enemy tale, i think in two turns it will be toast. Agressor A version can regenerate shield, this gives best survivability against all kinds of swarms. In this list i dont think to go from fire arcs often. I think the enemy will be forced to move where i want. I think in theory i have more problems with Fat-turreted ships and 2+ TLT. But not more problems like others have, because this list have the best survivability on paper.

scyks are in a bad place i.t.o cost efficiency

they cost way too much for how fragile they are, with or without cannons

when starting Scum, they're about the last thing I'd recommend

If you want a proper ion-boat in scum, look no further than the BTL-A4 Ion Cannon Turret Y-wing

I agree with Fickle. At least, I think Scyk is a difficult ship to fly and if you are new to the game, using it in your first list is a recipe for disappointment. I do think the Scyk is worthwhile, but getting the most out of it requires significant experience about how the game works and such.

So for a first list, I would also suggest the BTL-A4 y-wing. Its tough so it can survive even if you happen to make a positional error (whereas the Scyk just ends up dead).

IG88 of your choice + 2 BTL-A4 y-wings is a powerful list that still has lots of room for customization.

The most popular scum bot is IG88B because his ability is always useful. The other 3 IG's are also good, but their abilities are more situational and require you to adjust your tactics to best take advantage of, and so for that reason, I would suggest using IG88B first since as a new player, you will always get value out of it.

So as base starting point:

IG88B w/ a cannon (no need for ion since the y-wings have it) = 40 or 43 pts (because mangler or heavy laser are your best options for dealing solid damage).

2 BTL-A4 thugs w/ ion turret = 23 x 2

86 or 89 points

That leaves you either 11 or 14 points to add goodies to the above.

Personally, I like Predator + Advanced Sensors (6 pts) on my IGs because they bump and k-turn a lot, so you get good value out of the advanced sensors and predator applies on all of your attacks, so you are dealing consistent damage every time you shoot.

Another popular option is veteran instincts + FCS (3 points). Its cheap and is also used in conjunction with Heavy Laser Cannon (10 pts total) to guarantee that IG88 maximizes his damage output. I prefer advanced sensors over FCS simply because it allows IG88 to survive longer whereas FCS helps offense but does nothing to protect IG88 from exploding.

Autothrusters is also extremely handy on IG88. Both because turrets are still prevalent and because Range 3 is a common engagement distance for this ship due to how it moves.

For the y-wings, you are looking at possibly a droid: either unhinged or R4 agromech. Honestly, I don't feel they are necessary on a BTL-A4 ion y-wing. They are nice to have, but not essential. I would only stick them on if there was nothing better to spend points on.

In this case, I think spending all of your points on the IG88 is the best way to go because its you centrepiece and you need it to survive and deal good damage if you want to win games.

If I were to build this list, this is what I would take:

IG88B w/ predator, advanced sensors, autothrusters & HLC = 51

2 thugs w/ BTL-A4 & ion turret = 23 x 2 = 46

97

You have 3 left over points. Personally, I would throw an ion bomb onto the IG88 for that extra bit of control against arc-dodgers. You try to use it so that the arc-dodger is stuck between a rock and a hard place: if he wants to boost/BR out of the ion bomb zone, it will be right into the firing arcs of your y-wings (because you positioned them to cover the best places an arc-dodger could go to avoid the bomb).

Alternatively you could take unhinged astromech on the y-wings because that 3 hard turn goes from red to green which is occasionally handy.

Autothrusters is situational, only works against turreted weapons and in 2 range band. Why i need the upgrade which works only in 20% of situations at best? Better is Ion Projector or something other.

I think, that on ship with 3+ Attack the extra cannon or torpedo is a waste of points. You already paying for such firepower, why you must pay extra for extra source with very little grow up in fire power?

Y-Wings and HWK-290 have equal survivability, beleave me, i counted it, in more ocasions HWK-290 have better survivability. Only diference is when enemy do not let you modify defence dices, then Y-Wing have a one salvo more staying power.

I think that my logic is different from yours because of lacking expierence in real X-Wing game from my side. But this is a place to get the expierence, before first buy.

Beleave me, i like to get impresions and expierences from outside first, im playing wargames about 16 years, mostly Warhammer Fantasy battles.

autothrusters is not situational

it works against turrets and "beyond range 2" which means at range 3 (which, if you're packing a cannon, is the best range for you to be at because you get an extra die and the enemy does not). FFG wrote "beyond range 2" to account for epic ships shooting at "range 4/5"

at 2 points, thrusters only needs to trigger once to do the same work as a Shield Upgrade at half price

with an aggressor, which displaces table-space like crazy, it is basically guaranteed to trigger more than once

Autothrusters is situational, only works against turreted weapons and in 2 range band. Why i need the upgrade which works only in 20% of situations at best? Better is Ion Projector or something other.

I think, that on ship with 3+ Attack the extra cannon or torpedo is a waste of points. You already paying for such firepower, why you must pay extra for extra source with very little grow up in fire power?

Y-Wings and HWK-290 have equal survivability, beleave me, i counted it, in more ocasions HWK-290 have better survivability. Only diference is when enemy do not let you modify defence dices, then Y-Wing have a one salvo more staying power.

I think that my logic is different from yours because of lacking expierence in real X-Wing game from my side. But this is a place to get the expierence, before first buy.

Beleave me, i like to get impresions and expierences from outside first, im playing wargames about 16 years, mostly Warhammer Fantasy battles.

The main advantage of the cannon on IG-88B is actually not the cannon itself but rather the "Gunner" effect you get from the pilot ability which punishes the target for evading your first attack by attacking them again.

As for crunching the numbers on the probability of a Y-wing surviving longer than a HWK; many people prefer not to trust the green dice. Although the odds are about even, people will always remember that one time when the green dice all blanked. Also the greater number of maneuvers on the Y's dial do increase survivability significantly over the HWK, espescially with the Unhinged Astromech.

I do like to play with people who are not highly experienced because they make more surprising lists and keep me on my toes. My sister used to tear up all my lists with a Slave 1 + 3 named TIEs combo exactly because I didn't understand the strategy (maybe there wasn't one). In this game you'll likely meet a lot of people who don't trust the dice and Hedge their bets with rerolls and autos that's why Autothrusters has become so much more popular than Stealth Device. AutoThrusters gives you a sure thing while Stealth Device has more potential, but in my experience on the table they come out about even on keeping my A-wing alive.

I wouldn't mind trying that Serissu and Tactical Jammer giving each other an extra green die, but I wouldn't count on it to be particularly competitive.

scyks are in a bad place i.t.o cost efficiency

they cost way too much for how fragile they are, with or without cannons

when starting Scum, they're about the last thing I'd recommend

If you want a proper ion-boat in scum, look no further than the BTL-A4 Ion Cannon Turret Y-wing

Scyks are about 1 to 1.5pts over costed, depending on how you look at them. Let's say they're at least 1 point over costed.

I think a Syck is fine if you run it naked (the title makes them over costed), so long as it has a specific function in your squad and a job to do. Blocking, for example, or speed control for a YV-666, since it has the same PS as a Slaver and can barrel roll into position. That said, if you run a swarm of them, you'll be paying that 1 point premium for each one, and it'll start to add up, so it's probably not a good call. You can use 1 or ma-aybe 2, just use them for a reason and know what they're better in that spot than the cheaper Z-95.

I honestly think it'd be a fine ship if it were 13 points. At 14 points, the illicit slot should have been built in so people could load up Glitterstim with big cannons to try and get ridiculous. Oh well.

I think you right about naked M3-A overcosted question for 1-1.5pt. But this guy is unkillable "M3-A Tansarii point Veteran - Ion Cannon, Lone Wolf, Stealth Device(27pt)". All other modifications are overcosted. Maybe their are cheapest Mangler gun or Ion cannon holders, but for extra 2 points you can get HWK-290 with Ion Turret.

What you think about this Roster :

SCUM :
1.Agressor IG88-A - Marksmanship, Fire controll system, Autothrustes (43pt);
2.M3-A Tansarii point Veteran - Ion Cannon, Lone Wolf, Stealth Device(27pt);

3. ??? (What is the best thing in this place for 30pts)

Total : pt

Edited post before.

Autothrusters is situational, only works against turreted weapons and in 2 range band. Why i need the upgrade which works only in 20% of situations at best? Better is Ion Projector or something other.

I think, that on ship with 3+ Attack the extra cannon or torpedo is a waste of points. You already paying for such firepower, why you must pay extra for extra source with very little grow up in fire power?

Y-Wings and HWK-290 have equal survivability, beleave me, i counted it, in more ocasions HWK-290 have better survivability. Only diference is when enemy do not let you modify defence dices, then Y-Wing have a one salvo more staying power.

I think that my logic is different from yours because of lacking expierence in real X-Wing game from my side. But this is a place to get the expierence, before first buy.

Beleave me, i like to get impresions and expierences from outside first, im playing wargames about 16 years, mostly Warhammer Fantasy battles.

Ion projector is also situational. Even when it blocks a ship, there is only a 50/50 chance that it inflicts an ion token (half the sides on the red attack die have hit/crit symbols and the other half don't).

Y-wings and HWK-290 do NOT have equal survivability. In fact, its complicated. The effectiveness of green dice is dependent on a couple of things: firstly, they are better when you have tokens to spend on defense (such as focus or evade). They are also better when you only are facing 1 or 2 attacks per turn. The more attacks per turn, the more likely you are going to get a bad roll and suffer a critical hit. They are also better at stopping damage when you have more green dice than the attacker has red dice.

For example, 1 green die works pretty good against 1 red die. 2 green dice work awesome against 1 red die, pretty good against 2 red dice, not great against 3 red dice (but sometimes still okay) and struggle against 4 red dice (because at least some, and occasionally all, the damage can get through).

So, an HWK-290 will have better durability than a y-wing against lots of 2 attack ships, especially if only some of the ships can shoot each turn. Against 3 attack ships though, the y-wing will typically last longer, but not by much. At 4 attack dice, both ships die fast, but the y-wing often takes 3 or 4 shots to kill whereas the HWK is unlikely to survive 3 (not impossible though). That all gets even more complicated by range 1 (attacker bonus) and range 3 (defender bonus) however.

Cannon on IG88: if you have no experience with the game, I can understand why you might think its a bad idea. However, the cannon gets a number of advantages that make it well worth its cost. Firstly there is the fact that ships never gain the range 3 bonus against cannon shots (defender gets +1 green die against primary weapon attacks). The second advantage depends on the cannon itself: for example, HLC cannon always throws 4 dice and the 'mangler' always turns one hit into a crit (this can be big deal once shields are down since some of the crits can have a substantial impact on the outcome). Its hard to understand how 4 attack dice is so great (its only 1 more than 3, which the aggressor already has) if you've never played the game. The reason it is so powerful is because if you get a lucky roll, or you have a target lock or focus (or both), then the chances of dealing 3 or 4 hits (possibly a crit in there) is enormous. It also can have a huge impact on the game, especially against ships that only have 3 'hitpoints' (combination of hull and shield) such as the Scyk or TIE fighter. Destroying a ship before it gets a chance to shoot can really swing a game in your favour.

I think you right about naked M3-A overcosted question for 1-1.5pt. But this guy is unkillable "M3-A Tansarii point Veteran - Ion Cannon, Lone Wolf, Stealth Device(27pt)". All other modifications are overcosted. Maybe their are cheapest Mangler gun or Ion cannon holders, but for extra 2 points you can get HWK-290 with Ion Turret.

What you think about this Roster :

SCUM :

1.Agressor IG88-A - Marksmanship, Fire controll system, Autothrustes (43pt);

2.M3-A Tansarii point Veteran - Ion Cannon, Lone Wolf, Stealth Device(27pt);

3. ??? (What is the best thing in this place for 30pts)

Total : pt

Lone Wolf + stealth device does not make a ship unkillable. Far from it. Don't get me wrong, I love lone wolf, its a great card. Stealth is only good on certain ships that have the ability to take 2 or more actions per turn, however. A lone Wolf TPV cannot take both focus + evade so stealth is unlikely to offer much protection unless you get lucky (although if you took push the limit instead of lone wolf that would make stealth more likely to stay on, but then you will be taking stress when you use it and that limits your dial significantly). If you are new to the game, my advice is not to 'hope to get lucky'. I suppose it might work for some people, but most of the time, its better to stack the odds in your favour whenever you can.

Marksmanship is a poor elite talent because you cannot use it defensively. What if you don't roll any eyeballs on your attack? If/when that happens, its a wasted action. Of course it becomes a strong card offensively in conjunction with the ability to shoot more than once per turn. IG88B has that ability if you take a cannon. However, you still have no way to protect yourself with defensive tokens when using it, so it can be risky to use when facing multiple enemy guns. Fire control system also gets much better when taking IG88B. Its not bad but not great on any of the other IG88s.

One last thing I will say in this thread: this is NOT JUST a dice game. Its a maneuvring game first and foremost where you try to outguess your opponent and put your ships in ideal positions and leave your opponent with bad positions. Its never a bad idea to take upgrades and options that increase your manuevring power. Options that increase dice odds in your favour are also good too (such as autothrusters, predator, lone wolf, etc). But ultimately, getting good at the movement aspect of the game is critical to doing well.

Good luck!

I think your other options for a 27 point scyk are just better. Ys a couple of Zs some Kihraxs fighters, personally I'd choose them over scyks for most situations.

So why Marksmanship on IG-88C? the double action of boost/evade is unavailable if you use Marksmanship, one way to solve that is with Experimental Interface, but that will cost you your Autothrusters... you'll probably most often see Push the Limit on an IG-88C build because three actions is even better than two and most people don't want to give up autothrusters.

Second point is for N'Dru, I would take Cluster missiles over the hull upgrade. It's one more point but in combo with his ability gives him serious punch, four dice on two attacks. Then add Glitterstim, which is another one use upgrade, and that will last against both attacks to give you more hits and it counts on defense too if you need it. N'Dru has one shotted my high agility, highest value ship on the first pass more than once. That includes things like A-wings with stealth device and even Poe Dameron with Autothrusters, and Poe has 6 health (3shield+3hull!).

For your third, Auto-Kavil is a solid standalone ship and you'll probably surprise some people with the distance of a green 3-speed maneuver +boost, definitely worth a try. Talonbane can be tough to fly effectively, you'll want to practice with him and don't forget the 5-speed k-turn and 1-speed hard turns.

Palob with TLT is probably one of the best places for Marksmanship since it applies to both attacks of the TLT, even though you'll lose the crit it still increases your chance to get that one damage for both attacks, I'd say the only reason it's not better than Predator is because Marksmanship costs your action. Unfortunately in this case it's completely overlaps with Recon Specialist, which costs the same three points and gives you two focus tokens to cover both of your attacks, but RecSpec's 2xfocus can be used on defense in a pinch. Also don't forget that Palob steals tokens which are really nice to hang on to so you can spend on multiple attacks/defenses later, this is why Moldy Crow Title is a perfect fit for Palob and costs the same three points as the hull upgrade. You only have to turn one <eyeball> to a <swerve> using a saved focus to make that an even trade. Overall that's three effects that do the same thing, but can't really be used at the same time.

A favorite combo of mine is Palob Godahli with TLT, Predator, Intelligence Agent, and Moldy Crow and give one of his wingmen the Opportunist Elite Pilot Talent. Palob strips a focus or evade token from the target at the start of combat and then his friend uses Opportunist to get an extra attack die on one attack. Any IG-88 with a target lock from Fire Control will make pretty good use of that with a four dice primary, or five dice with HLC or range 1 primary.

Thank you, i missread the Marksmanship card about Action it takes to work.