I'm fairly new to x wing, played a lot of attack wing. I wanted to join an x wing tournament as 3 flgs are having multiple events this winter to just 1 attack wing event.

So I looked some stuff up to try and find a play style i would like and got a yt 2400 and 2 b wings.

I did a play test today and won without losing a ship, albiet most of the shields on the b wings were gone.

The list was

2 naked b wings

Dash rendar

Outrider

Lone wolf

Hlc

All

R2d2

Exactly 100. Did I get lucky as I was playing against 4 tie fighters a tie advance and a tie intercepted.

Also I found that the hlc was good but is there a better turret. I didn't use lone wolf as my b wings kept close to be able to shoot anything in range 1 of dash? Any suggestions on how to tweak the list to get it tournament ready without sugesting a complete rewrite with different ships

Bump - any help for a new player??

I think the more experienced players who usually contribute on this subforum are busy with Worlds :/. I'm a new player also and my recent list topic got hardly any responses.

In my limited experience, I think Dash is awesome with PTL and Engine Upgrade. The maneuverability with those two options coupled with him not caring about obstacles is just too good to pass up.

So, here's what I've built him as:

Dash:

- PTL

- HLC

- Engine Upgrade

- Outrider

That's 55 points which leaves you with enough for your two B-Wings. However, it doesn't leave him with any bonuses to clearing the stress. Add Kyle Katarn and you get a free focus when you clear the stress. However, that puts you over the limit for your two B-Wings.

I see your point i think the manoeuvrability and fire of the b wings is to good to not have and they work well with it, rather these than just filling with z95s

Not exactly sure what you mean by asking if you got lucky, so I'll make a couple of comments:

Your list either won or placed very highly at US Nationals, which is presumably why you chose it, and therefore it's safe to assume it's a sound list.

Your opponent's list seems to me, without knowing the exact build, to be a non-standard list. It may oray not be an optimal list, but it does have some of the tools needed to beat your list when flown well: it has lots of blockers and, if kitted out with the right upgrades, the maneuverability to get inside range 1 and deny Dash attacks. I've been flying Dash a lot lately and when I lose, this is how it happens.

So, is your list sound? Yes. Is it possible your opponent's list was less than optimal? Also yes. Do both of you have the tools to win if you fly well? A third yes.

As far as prepping for some upcoming tournaments - your list is totally fine and has won big when flown by skilled pilots. Keep practicing with it and you should have a chance to win that is largely dependent on your own skill as a pilot.

I've fly:

Dash + HLC + Outrider + PTL + Kyle Kartan + Engine upgrade (58)

2x Rookie X-Wing (42)

The Xs are here to distract opponent from Dash. I prefer X than Bs with Dash cause they are more manouvrable, and can follow Dash in case.

Not exactly sure what you mean by asking if you got lucky, so I'll make a couple of comments:

Your list either won or placed very highly at US Nationals, which is presumably why you chose it, and therefore it's safe to assume it's a sound list.

Your opponent's list seems to me, without knowing the exact build, to be a non-standard list. It may oray not be an optimal list, but it does have some of the tools needed to beat your list when flown well: it has lots of blockers and, if kitted out with the right upgrades, the maneuverability to get inside range 1 and deny Dash attacks. I've been flying Dash a lot lately and when I lose, this is how it happens.

So, is your list sound? Yes. Is it possible your opponent's list was less than optimal? Also yes. Do both of you have the tools to win if you fly well? A third yes.

As far as prepping for some upcoming tournaments - your list is totally fine and has won big when flown by skilled pilots. Keep practicing with it and you should have a chance to win that is largely dependent on your own skill as a pilot.

I don't follow and not to interested in us nationals as uk based player. I chose the lists as b wings are my favorite ship. Spoke to people at my local gaming stores and was advised to do bbbbz list but when I looked this up and talked it over decided it wasn't for me. It decided on either a falcon or the yt2400 to go with the beings and the yt2400 just looked cooler to me. I chose all so that I can do damage if people crash onto me,and lone wolf as I thought I would be out on its own, but found I had to cover its range 1 as the tie fighters were nimble. So I was after some advice as how to equip it while keeping the b wings

Futuristiken is just pointing out that the exact same list that you posted won US nationals. I think this is a good indication that its effective and therefore, you don't necessarily need to change anything.

However, based on your comments, it sounds like you have some concerns about how to fly it well and get the most out of the cards you picked. Honestly, only flying it once is not enough to draw any kind of legitimate conclusions. Having said that, I think you are spot on in regard to one glaring weakness of the list: getting Dash blocked up by low PS. The anti-pursuit lasers (I assume that's what you mean by 'all') are better against higher PS, although they can still work against lower PS, you generally don't want Dash stuck in a big clusterf*ck of enemy ships all in R1.

I'm not an expert, and I've never flown that particular list, but knowing Dash, he loves to skirt the edges of a fight while enemies focus on killing his support ships. I think it would be tricky to have the b-wings race out in front of Dash, so instead, you should probably still fly Dash out in front but have him kite it out of harms way as the b-wings engage. Now the opponent has to decide whether to chase Dash (who can be squirrelly) or deal with the jousters. In this case, you should almost always be getting lone wolfs benefit due to distance between your ships, and be able to keep in HLC range. Anti-pursuit lasers are there not to be used commonly---they are there as an extra tool to deal with difficult to kill ships (by blocking them with Dash so the b-wings can shoot a target with no actions) and to still deal some kind of possible damage when Dash has gotten stuck in a bad position...

So TL;DR, your list is fine you just need to practice with it, and if you don't like how it works because of the various upgrade choices, you can go with the 'oldschool' Dash build which Flaick listed (using 2 rookie x-wings in place of the b-wings), or find a different build I guess. But keep in mind that making Dash 'too cheap' makes it difficult to get good value out of him. Good luck!

Futuristiken is just pointing out that the exact same list that you posted won US nationals. I think this is a good indication that its effective and therefore, you don't necessarily need to change anything.

However, based on your comments, it sounds like you have some concerns about how to fly it well and get the most out of the cards you picked. Honestly, only flying it once is not enough to draw any kind of legitimate conclusions. Having said that, I think you are spot on in regard to one glaring weakness of the list: getting Dash blocked up by low PS. The anti-pursuit lasers (I assume that's what you mean by 'all') are better against higher PS, although they can still work against lower PS, you generally don't want Dash stuck in a big clusterf*ck of enemy ships all in R1.

I'm not an expert, and I've never flown that particular list, but knowing Dash, he loves to skirt the edges of a fight while enemies focus on killing his support ships. I think it would be tricky to have the b-wings race out in front of Dash, so instead, you should probably still fly Dash out in front but have him kite it out of harms way as the b-wings engage. Now the opponent has to decide whether to chase Dash (who can be squirrelly) or deal with the jousters. In this case, you should almost always be getting lone wolfs benefit due to distance between your ships, and be able to keep in HLC range. Anti-pursuit lasers are there not to be used commonly---they are there as an extra tool to deal with difficult to kill ships (by blocking them with Dash so the b-wings can shoot a target with no actions) and to still deal some kind of possible damage when Dash has gotten stuck in a bad position...

So TL;DR, your list is fine you just need to practice with it, and if you don't like how it works because of the various upgrade choices, you can go with the 'oldschool' Dash build which Flaick listed (using 2 rookie x-wings in place of the b-wings), or find a different build I guess. But keep in mind that making Dash 'too cheap' makes it difficult to get good value out of him. Good luck!

Yes, this

If your store's lists include a ton of PS 8-9s (Poe being in both lists at the World's Final will likely amp his use), then I might trade Push the Limit (PTL) for Veteran Instincts (VI) and Recon Spec. Engine Upgrade is three times more effective if you're moving after your opponents and it sucks to watch all those Aces use Boost to dive under your HLC Donut Hole.

Either that or trade HLC for Mangler and Recon Spec, but if you have Engine Upgrade and VI then I'd stick with the more damaging HLC.

I think if you really want to play B's (and there's nothing wrong with that) then play Leebo instead and play a standard Super Dash loadout. PTL, title, HLC, Katarn, EU. That way you can play your naked B's and play a very maneuverable 2400. You have to worry about rocks but that's really not that big of a deal with how a PTL-EU 2400 can move. Just a little food for thought.

Not exactly sure what you mean by asking if you got lucky, so I'll make a couple of comments:

Your list either won or placed very highly at US Nationals, which is presumably why you chose it, and therefore it's safe to assume it's a sound list.

Your opponent's list seems to me, without knowing the exact build, to be a non-standard list. It may oray not be an optimal list, but it does have some of the tools needed to beat your list when flown well: it has lots of blockers and, if kitted out with the right upgrades, the maneuverability to get inside range 1 and deny Dash attacks. I've been flying Dash a lot lately and when I lose, this is how it happens.

So, is your list sound? Yes. Is it possible your opponent's list was less than optimal? Also yes. Do both of you have the tools to win if you fly well? A third yes.

As far as prepping for some upcoming tournaments - your list is totally fine and has won big when flown by skilled pilots. Keep practicing with it and you should have a chance to win that is largely dependent on your own skill as a pilot.

I don't follow and not to interested in us nationals as uk based player. I chose the lists as b wings are my favorite ship. Spoke to people at my local gaming stores and was advised to do bbbbz list but when I looked this up and talked it over decided it wasn't for me. It decided on either a falcon or the yt2400 to go with the beings and the yt2400 just looked cooler to me. I chose all so that I can do damage if people crash onto me,and lone wolf as I thought I would be out on its own, but found I had to cover its range 1 as the tie fighters were nimble. So I was after some advice as how to equip it while keeping the b wings

Futuristiken is just pointing out that the exact same list that you posted won US nationals. I think this is a good indication that its effective and therefore, you don't necessarily need to change anything.

However, based on your comments, it sounds like you have some concerns about how to fly it well and get the most out of the cards you picked. Honestly, only flying it once is not enough to draw any kind of legitimate conclusions. Having said that, I think you are spot on in regard to one glaring weakness of the list: getting Dash blocked up by low PS. The anti-pursuit lasers (I assume that's what you mean by 'all') are better against higher PS, although they can still work against lower PS, you generally don't want Dash stuck in a big clusterf*ck of enemy ships all in R1.

I'm not an expert, and I've never flown that particular list, but knowing Dash, he loves to skirt the edges of a fight while enemies focus on killing his support ships. I think it would be tricky to have the b-wings race out in front of Dash, so instead, you should probably still fly Dash out in front but have him kite it out of harms way as the b-wings engage. Now the opponent has to decide whether to chase Dash (who can be squirrelly) or deal with the jousters. In this case, you should almost always be getting lone wolfs benefit due to distance between your ships, and be able to keep in HLC range. Anti-pursuit lasers are there not to be used commonly---they are there as an extra tool to deal with difficult to kill ships (by blocking them with Dash so the b-wings can shoot a target with no actions) and to still deal some kind of possible damage when Dash has gotten stuck in a bad position...

So TL;DR, your list is fine you just need to practice with it, and if you don't like how it works because of the various upgrade choices, you can go with the 'oldschool' Dash build which Flaick listed (using 2 rookie x-wings in place of the b-wings), or find a different build I guess. But keep in mind that making Dash 'too cheap' makes it difficult to get good value out of him. Good luck!

Lone Wolf Dash builds definitely take a lot of skillful flying to make Lone Wolf pay off, because OP is right: against very maneuverable ships you're going to be doing a lot of blocking with your B-Wings if you aren't successfully 'kiting' with Dash.

Another build I've had good luck with is to take the standard Dash 58 build (PtL, Kyle Katarn, HLC, Outrider, and Engine Upgrade) and trade the Engine Upgrade for your APLs to punish bumps by ships trying to get inside your doughnut (no one wants a ship in the doughnut). That makes Dash cost 56 points, leaving exactly enough points for your two Blues. You're less maneuverable than Dash 58 but no less so than the build in the OP, plus with good piloting you'll have a focus and a target lock every round. Remember that target lock re-rolls allow you to actually score crits with your HLC, which is why I've found this configuration of the list to have the most devastating firepower.

I agree with blade_mercurial though: one match is not a sufficient sample set to cause you to discard a build that's worked for you, especially when it was against a list that's a little off-the-wall. The list in the OP has strong game against the pre-Worlds global meta, and sometimes Lone Wolf just won't be worth its points. It's one of those "icing on the cake" upgrades, I believe, rather than one that you build your list and tailor your piloting around.

Another build I've had good luck with is to take the standard Dash 58 build (PtL, Kyle Katarn, HLC, Outrider, and Engine Upgrade) and trade the Engine Upgrade for your APLs to punish bumps by ships trying to get inside your doughnut (no one wants a ship in the doughnut). That makes Dash cost 56 points, leaving exactly enough points for your two Blues. You're less maneuverable than Dash 58 but no less so than the build in the OP, plus with good piloting you'll have a focus and a target lock every round. Remember that target lock re-rolls allow you to actually score crits with your HLC, which is why I've found this configuration of the list to have the most devastating firepower.

I don't think PTL Dash without engine is a good idea. Since you've limited yourself to greens, you really need the boost+BR option to keep enemies far away. Without boost its inevitable that enemies will get close enough to ruin Dash's plans. I'm not very good at flying Dash though, so I could be wrong. YMMV.

What do people think about pairing up Dash with another ace? There seems to be a general lean towards Dash and naked Bs or Xs, but I think Dash paired with either Ten Numb or Keyan Farlander can be quite effective. I've had a fair bit of success with this recently:

Dash + PtL + EU + Title + Recon Spec + Mangler

Ten + Predator + Advanced Sensors + E2 + Jan Ors + Mangler

Dash skips about kiting like a boss, doing his thing, while Ten slow rolls up nearby. I started using it as a counter to a scum-heavy local meta with Talonbane+Glitterstim being a common sight.

I'm wondering how effective a similar Dash + Keyan build would be, but haven't had the opportunity to try it. Keyan needs an EU though so you lose Jan.

Regarding the OP, I'd say switch Lone Wolf for PtL or Predator, and R2 for Jan, Kyle or Recon Spec. The "standard super dash" is "standard" for a reason - it works!

If I faced Dash plus a B wing ace..

I'd be confident to kill the B wing in short order. 1 or 2 turns shooting depending what list I was flying. An ace B is as pretty much as easy to kill as Blue just more expensive. I had a phase where I was desperate to make Keyan Farlander the terror I wanted him to be but any decent opponent just focussed him down quickly. PTL and EU makes him harder to pin down but he is already 36pts. That's Vader/Fel territory for points and either of them or similar will simply arc dodge him and ruin his day. Vi to counter the PS problem leaves him less able to reposition and easier to predict by other aces who may stil be moving after you through either initiative bids for VI of their own.

Named B's are a trap IMO, especially if your newish.

As to the OP, as others have said it is a solid list but I think it would be quite unforgiving of mistakes. The guy who won Us nationals with it was a good player who surprised the hell out of people with his APL positioning. Tough act to follow without experience of the list. In order to fit 2 B's in you have to sacrifice setting on the classic super Dash as that comes in at 58pts when need 44 for the B's but I'm not sure that is the way I would go early in my Xwing career. Though I guess you have a boost on most new players from attack wing as I imagine a lot of the spatial awareness and visualising moves carries over.

My Dash 2 B's would probably be something like;

PTL, EU, Kyle Katarn, Mangler, Outrider. 99pts

I think that may be a little 'easier' to fly though before I continue, I should say my YT 2400 experience is entirely from facing them across the table as I do not own one yet.

You lose a little hitting power by going to a Mangler cannon but that has no donut hole to worry about. Biggest concern is probably PS8+. While you are throwing less dice than a HLC, you have a dramatically improved chance to land cries on them as a trade off. HLC only gets crits on re rolled dice as crits are immediately flipped to regular hits while Mangler semi reverses that changing a hit to crit.

That's not me saying Mangler is better. They are both good upgrades with their own sbenifits and drawbacks.

By the time you engage, your two actions will mostly be boost and barrel roll to dictate range (you generally want to be. range 3 so that most opponents do not get the range bonus (your using a secondary weapon) while usually you do so your getting 3 greens. You don't want to rely on those greens but it helps in comparison to 2. Instead rely on getting into positions where you have a shot but they don't. Boost and Barrel roll can do amazing things, even more so on a large base. You don't have to waste an action focusing as Kyle will grant a token from clearing last turns stress so you still get to modify your dice. No LW means the 3 ships can happily work together and you haven't wasted the points for it like you are seeing at the moment.

LW is a great card but is more skill and experience dependent to get results than most others. Any time you don't trigger it isn't just 2 ptswasted, it's also the opportunity cost of having it in the first place rather than an upgrade you would have got to use that turn.

Mangler is definitely NOT better, its decidedly worse (because 3 dice is less than 4). HLC on Dash is far superior. If you are having trouble keeping Dash far enough from enemies to use the HLC effectively, then its likely that Dash is not for you (that certainly applies to me so far, although I think I will revisit learning Dash soonish...)

However, everything else you say Kopmcginty, I agree with 100%

Just went 3-1, good enough for 3rd place in a 17-man tournament, with Dash and Bs. My experiences have reconfirmed much of the really spot-on commentary from above.

In particular, I have to agree that non-PtL/EU Dash is VERY skill intensive and unforgiving of mistakes. My one loss was determined in the very first combat phase, when the target I needed to focus down first ended up inside range 1. Not only was I denied Dash's shots on him, but he got a BRUTAL range 1 shot on Dash that immediately tipped the scales in my opponent's favor (though I'll mention that we went to time and in the final round he forgot to focus with Opportunist Wedge, who rolled two blanks and an eyeball against Dash with 1-hull remaining - in our community we say you default to a focus if you forget your action, which I don't love, but it is what it is and the second half of Dash's points were enough to give my opponent the win).

If I'd had the PtL/EU build of Dash, I could've repositioned so as to at least get my own shots in, if not avoid the return fire as well. Mangler would've let me shoot as well. HOWEVER, I completely agree with blade_mercurial that it's NOT WORTH IT. I let the enemy into range 1, and I lost. I think that if you're going to play him at all, you have to accept that that's just how it is with Dash.

Kopmcginty is also totally correct about APLs - super hard to make it work and wasn't worth the points for me, even with Intel. Agent. Probably won't use it again. I'm not the US Nationals winner by a long shot, but I'm not a Dash novice either, and I think I triggered APLs exactly once all day. Again, for us mere mortals, if anyone is even close to bumping Dash then you're doing it wrong.

Lone Wolf is also hard for me to get mileage out of, which is why I found a way to get Predator into my build. Had lots of two-hit rolls turn into three hits and crit, which is as devastating to your opponent's morale as it is to his ships.

The moral of the story, I think, is that the concerns raised by OPer are exactly the weaknesses of the build. That said, I think moving away from HLC/Outrider is a mistake. Lone Wolf, on the other hand, I definitely think is negotiable. So next time I'm playing a 100 point tournament, this is how I'll fly Dash with two Bs:

Mangler is definitely NOT better, its decidedly worse (because 3 dice is less than 4). HLC on Dash is far superior. If you are having trouble keeping Dash far enough from enemies to use the HLC effectively, then its likely that Dash is not for you (that certainly applies to me so far, although I think I will revisit learning Dash soonish...)

However, everything else you say Kopmcginty, I agree with 100%

I find that the Mangler is a reasonable compromise. I agree that the HLC is more damaging, and also agree that dash has the manoeuvres to keep things out of his hole, but the mangler is an (admittedly less damaging) tool for a beginner to get the hang of keeping Dash at range 3 without suffering the penalty of letting things get to range 1.

The mangler has its place, plus it's less points than the HLC which gives you the initiative bid, which always helps.

Thanks for the help! I will keep to the current list and try and make it work and get used to it. I'm pretty confident in piloting it as I'm a v good attack wing player, have to get used to the nuances of x wing (and all the barrel rolls)

I think APL and lone wolf may go but i will wait and see. Will keep you updated on my upcoming games

Good luck, man! Dash is super fun to fly, however you build him. And welcome to X-Wing!

Thanks. I did have a longer post in more detail but the page didn't refresh properly. I have got my ships repainted in a custom scheme so looking forward to some more games. I'm might see if one of the flgs can also run an epic tournament at some point

On a side note the r2d2 I am using is from tantive. Is the core set one better?

On a side note the r2d2 I am using is from tantive. Is the core set one better?

It's just totally different: the one you have is a crew card, whereas the one in the core set is an astromech card, and therefore wouldn't even work for the lists discussed here. Now you may have seen the list that pairs Super Dash with Super Corran, and for that build you'll need the core set R2 for Corran.

EDIT:

Completely different slots. No ship can choose between the two.

Tantive is crew, core is astromech. You could then have to choose between an astromech fighter taking Artoo astromech and Falcon taking him as crew due to him being unique.

Crew Artoo repairs a shield in the end phase but risks flipping a damage card over so changes an already incurred damage to a crit. This can only be done if you have no shields. Means it has a sweet spot. No shields with no hull damage means the shield regen works with no downside otherwise it's a risk.

Astromech Artoo regents a shield when you execute a green move. No danger involved beyond making you do green moves which can make you predictable.

The R2 from the Tantive is a crew upgrade as you know, the other R2 is an Astromech upgrade. They do similar but slightly different things