Am I missing something?

Can someone use Force Move to pull a weapon from an NPCs hands, without rolling anything other than the force dice?

It feels there should be some kind of skill roll, but FaD suggests otherwise, as it doesnt make any mention of one.

It requires a specific upgrade to be able to use your Force dice to rip a weapon from an enemy's hands.

Against major NPCs, I agree there should be a skill roll, and FaD supports this. Athletics to Oppose a disarm attempt, or Discipline to Oppose in the case of a Force user, would be advisable.

For minions and most rivals, just let the Force dice be enough.

Which upgrade? I think my player has a Magnitude upgrade, and maybe one other?

There is guidance on using Opposed checks. This being a good example.

Which upgrade? I think my player has a Magnitude upgrade, and maybe one other?

It's a Control upgrade.

Which upgrade? I think my player has a Magnitude upgrade, and maybe one other?

A Control upgrade three tiers down.

The Force user can pull objects out of secure mountings or out of an opponents grasp.

Against a BBEG, I'd suggest making it an opposed Discipline check or outright saying No. You can't pull Vader's lightsaber out of his hand, end of discussion.

But what would I be asking my player to roll? Discipline?

Force Die to activate the power, and then the skill check to see if he can beat his opponents grasp?

I'd use that and Athletics for the opposer. There is a side bar on making skill/force checks opposed. It's all at once.

Cheers

Against a BBEG, I'd suggest making it an opposed Discipline check or outright saying No. You can't pull Vader's lightsaber out of his hand, end of discussion.

I see your point, but I think if they can make the roll, let 'em have it. Then they get to find out what happens to you when Vader gets pissed and has nothing but Force Powers with which to hit you.

Against a BBEG, I'd suggest making it an opposed Discipline check or outright saying No. You can't pull Vader's lightsaber out of his hand, end of discussion.

I see your point, but I think if they can make the roll, let 'em have it. Then they get to find out what happens to you when Vader gets pissed and has nothing but Force Powers with which to hit you.

If you think that your BBEG should keep their weapon regardless you can instead have the effect interfere with with their action instead. Have it use up a Manoeuvre to keep hold of their weapon or apply a Setback equal to the PC's Force Rating. This way the Player still gets some affect for their EXP and your BBEG keep their weapon.

Don't forget that there is the Resist Disarm talent. Perhaps your BBEG could invest in that ability if you're concerned about him being disarmed and it ending the fight prematurely.

I'd use that and Athletics for the opposer. There is a side bar on making skill/force checks opposed. It's all at once.

I like Coordination myself, but Athletics is good too. Against another Force user I'd say Discipline.

Against a BBEG, I'd suggest making it an opposed Discipline check or outright saying No. You can't pull Vader's lightsaber out of his hand, end of discussion.

I see your point, but I think if they can make the roll, let 'em have it. Then they get to find out what happens to you when Vader gets pissed and has nothing but Force Powers with which to hit you.

You make a good point. Giving it some more thought makes me think I was wrong. The better choice might be to let them roll it as an Impossible Task. Then if they manage it, kudos all around and on his next turn Vader just Force chokes them and takes it back.

Which upgrade? I think my player has a Magnitude upgrade, and maybe one other?

A Control upgrade three tiers down.

The Force user can pull objects out of secure mountings or out of an opponents grasp.

Against a BBEG, I'd suggest making it an opposed Discipline check or outright saying No. You can't pull Vader's lightsaber out of his hand, end of discussion.

Actually, in regards to a BBEG there are more interesting ways of providing a dynamic way of countering dialog. for example;

"I use force move on vaders lightsaber, since he failed his athletics check, I manage to yank it from his hands and ignite it. Next turn, I take the first init slot and swing it at him! I hit with a number of threat ,I have him now!"

"Being a villian, I activate a destiny point to activate force shield out of turn, vader raises his hand and follows the beam with his hand, absorbing some of the damage during his turn. Then, on his turn afterwards his expression unreadable he tightens his grip with his other hand, choking you as he lifts you off your feet... Opposed Discipline check!"

Though naturally I suspect it's less likely for vader to be the target of such an attempt, I would apply the same thing to most combats. Even dedicated inquistors should have a few options that disarming them should be interesting, rather then encounter ending. I mean, Jango was able to fight Obi-Wan by disarming him, players should be able to do the same, only to be hit by weapons kept in reserve/force.

It is the force pull control upgrade. the one after the attack control upgrade. You would use your discipline vs. the important NPCs athletics or discipline. Resist disarm costs to strain to ignore the disarm effect.

Which upgrade? I think my player has a Magnitude upgrade, and maybe one other?

A Control upgrade three tiers down.

The Force user can pull objects out of secure mountings or out of an opponents grasp.

Against a BBEG, I'd suggest making it an opposed Discipline check or outright saying No. You can't pull Vader's lightsaber out of his hand, end of discussion.

Why not? This system is about 'yes, but' rather than 'no - end of discussion' :-/

edit: nvm ;-)

i usually use the best defense an enemy can muster, unless i really can't think of a way to do so. that way it will never be too easy to use this trick and you don't have to stat out villains with high "defensive" stats all around.

coordination means they turns quickly enough and protects his weapon to foil the attempt

athletics means they hold on with sheer physical power

resistance could also be used as a general resistance to the force, it's a stat rarely used anyway

other force users can defend with disipline of course, using their mastery of the force

Which upgrade? I think my player has a Magnitude upgrade, and maybe one other?

A Control upgrade three tiers down.

The Force user can pull objects out of secure mountings or out of an opponents grasp.

Against a BBEG, I'd suggest making it an opposed Discipline check or outright saying No. You can't pull Vader's lightsaber out of his hand, end of discussion.

Actually, in regards to a BBEG there are more interesting ways of providing a dynamic way of countering dialog. for example;

"I use force move on vaders lightsaber, since he failed his athletics check, I manage to yank it from his hands and ignite it. Next turn, I take the first init slot and swing it at him! I hit with a number of threat ,I have him now!"

This would be an excellent reason to give Vader that nemesis talent that gives him an extra action at the end of each turn (don't recall the name of it).

Yes i know im resurrecting a dead thread - so what? BUT i need help on this.......

What difficulty would be imposed for an Athletics check (say) against a pull on a weapon.

OR is it simply an opposed Athletics check (for some reason) augmented by white dice?

Thanks in advance!

I would do it as discribed in the F&D Core Rulebook p. 283 "Resisting Force Power Checks".

It becomes an opposed check, and it is up to the GM to determine which skill is used by the attacker and which skill is used by the defender.

The default skill for the Force user is discipline, but you could use any other skill that makes sense.

The skill check is (usually) made for the attacking/acting character. So in your example you would (usually) not roll Athlectics to defend against the pull on the weapon, but the Force user would have to roll against a difficulty set by the Athlectics skill of the defender.

9 hours ago, mwknowles said:

Yes i know im resurrecting a dead thread - so what? BUT i need help on this.......

What difficulty would be imposed for an Athletics check (say) against a pull on a weapon.

OR is it simply an opposed Athletics check (for some reason) augmented by white dice?

Thanks in advance!

It is an Opposed test.

Your PC is conducting the Action, so they form the "positive" side of the pool using their Discipline, always.

For the "negative" side of the pool, you use whatever Skill is appropriate for the NPC. I would recommend using the applicable weapon Skill. Because weapon-retention is ALWAYS a part of getting trained to use that weapon. Although, if the NPC had a better Athletics, OR Discipline Skill, you could use any of those 3, depending on whichever tells the best story.

On 3/29/2020 at 12:06 AM, emsquared said:

It is an Opposed test.

Your PC is conducting the Action, so they form the "positive" side of the pool using their Discipline, always.

For the "negative" side of the pool, you use whatever Skill is appropriate for the NPC. I would recommend using the applicable weapon Skill. Because weapon-retention is ALWAYS a part of getting trained to use that weapon. Although, if the NPC had a better Athletics, OR Discipline Skill, you could use any of those 3, depending on whichever tells the best story.

That is very useful thank you. I thought it was the skill involved augmented by the white dice, but Discipline feels better. AND i like the idea of weapon skills (maybe OR athletics whichever is higher!)

Thank you!

4 hours ago, mwknowles said:

That is very useful thank you. I thought it was the skill involved augmented by the white dice, but Discipline feels better. AND i like the idea of weapon skills (maybe OR athletics whichever is higher!)

Thank you!

Er, hold on. I'm not sure you two are on the same page, actually. The Force-user rolls a combined skill + Force check vs a difficulty set by the target's skill (as per the rules for opposed checks, p. 33 of Force and Destiny). This is all described on p. 283 in the Force and Destiny core book.

I get that the focus here is on what skill the active party uses in the opposed check, but the entire interaction reads a bit like you took from it that one wouldn't use the Force dice in the opposed check. Just making sure.

Resist Disarm...or perhaps Rey's inability to overcome Snoke's Discipline...

5 hours ago, awayputurwpn said:

Resist Disarm...or perhaps Rey's inability to overcome Snoke's Discipline...

Rey rolls an opposed Discipline vs. Discipline check against Snoke, and fails with some Threat. The GM uses the Threat to inflict strain, and narrates it as Rey pulling the lightsaber to her, only for Snoke to redirect its path to smack her in the head and return it to his side.

At least, that's how I'd run it at my table. Then again, I do silly stuff like this all the time at my table when players fail rolls.