IMO, the plain jane tie bomber is slightly undercosted on its own (dat speed....). Look at the restrictions, for example, a Liberty activation places on speed 4 thingies even though its 7 points (admittedly, maybe 1 or 2 points overcosted?). The threat range of a TIE bomber is incredible.

Adding rhymer's ability for 7 points to make the envelope even bigger? You can conduct a bombing run on your first friggin turn on an activated ship!

I've tried running little experiments of Rhymer + 5 bombers, which a token expanded hangar activation can fling quite a distance. Even if that thing goes off once or twice, they've more than made their points worth. With speed 4/rhymer, it's not all that hard to squadron command them outside of fighter engagement range to deliver the goods. Plus, the fact that EVERY crit lands a face up? That can really hurt: all for the low low cost of 61 points, or around the same as demolisher except it does the job better, earlier, and is a lot harder to blow up in retaliation. If you plop them into a rear arc? Say goodbye to your spaceship!

The fact that jumpmasters are rogue means you can now pull the "reverse speed bump" trick. Just feed them one at a time into the pile of AS to ensure the proton torpedo love keeps coming.

The only counter that's been working? Lots of x-wings or TIE fighters.

In short, I think tie bombers are undercosted, Rhymer as well. Is he broken, though? Not if you take squadrons yourself...

The thing I'm curious about is why they made the TIE bombers so crappy. If Rhymer came out as a "fix" later, then I could see it, but they came out at the same time. I'm also worried that it will hamper future imperial squadrons because they can't make anything too good anti-ship or it will be abused with Rhymer.

probably to reflect that TIEs are designed to have 1 job, the job they are designed for. They are not jack of all trade type fighters like x-wings and B-wings. Fighters Fight, Interceptors Intercept, Bombers Bomb, Advanced fail to defend a 2m wide exhaust port....

I use this as a rhymerball:

Major Rhymer, 2 TIE bombers, Darth Vader

When activated with flight controllers it will rip though enemy fighters due to Darth Vader doing damage on crits. Darth Vader after flight controllers averages 4 damage and 1 accuracy against squadrons, and he protects the others with his escort and double brace.

The entire squad does damage on crits against ships, but the bombers can also deal faceup damage cards. It's quite potent, and can usually defeat 2 X-wings and luke in a brawl.

I use this as a rhymerball:

Major Rhymer, 2 TIE bombers, Darth Vader

When activated with flight controllers it will rip though enemy fighters due to Darth Vader doing damage on crits. Darth Vader after flight controllers averages 4 damage and 1 accuracy against squadrons, and he protects the others with his escort and double brace.

The entire squad does damage on crits against ships, but the bombers can also deal faceup damage cards. It's quite potent, and can usually defeat 2 X-wings and luke in a brawl.

Vader is no slouch. You literally have to gang up on him and risk losing a squadron every squadron phase.

IMO, the plain jane tie bomber is slightly undercosted on its own (dat speed....). Look at the restrictions, for example, a Liberty activation places on speed 4 thingies even though its 7 points (admittedly, maybe 1 or 2 points overcosted?). The threat range of a TIE bomber is incredible.

Adding rhymer's ability for 7 points to make the envelope even bigger? You can conduct a bombing run on your first friggin turn on an activated ship!

I've tried running little experiments of Rhymer + 5 bombers, which a token expanded hangar activation can fling quite a distance. Even if that thing goes off once or twice, they've more than made their points worth. With speed 4/rhymer, it's not all that hard to squadron command them outside of fighter engagement range to deliver the goods. Plus, the fact that EVERY crit lands a face up? That can really hurt: all for the low low cost of 61 points, or around the same as demolisher except it does the job better, earlier, and is a lot harder to blow up in retaliation. If you plop them into a rear arc? Say goodbye to your spaceship!

The fact that jumpmasters are rogue means you can now pull the "reverse speed bump" trick. Just feed them one at a time into the pile of AS to ensure the proton torpedo love keeps coming.

The only counter that's been working? Lots of x-wings or TIE fighters.

In short, I think tie bombers are undercosted, Rhymer as well. Is he broken, though? Not if you take squadrons yourself...

But with Expanded Hangar Bay, you've added five more points. And then you'll probably want to add Chiraneau to keep them moving and that's 10 more points. Even then, you're now playing a cat and mouse game with enemy squadrons with no real threat to any Rebel squadrons (you may be able to take out a stray TIE or two). Now, you can your own anti-squadrons, but now you're spending more points. So yes, they can be good, but they MUST have Rhymer and they usually end up spending a lot of points. And like I said before, any future imperial squadron that is developed is now going to be spending a point or two for the "Rhymer tax" (the points added to the other squadrons to keep his ability from being overpowered). This to me means that you have to use him or you are dumping those tax points down the drain.

The thing I'm curious about is why they made the TIE bombers so crappy. If Rhymer came out as a "fix" later, then I could see it, but they came out at the same time. I'm also worried that it will hamper future imperial squadrons because they can't make anything too good anti-ship or it will be abused with Rhymer.

A 5 damage speed 4 bomber with black dice is "crappy"? It's the cheapest bomber available for either faction and it gets into bombing range faster than every other bomber in Wave 1 even before Rhymer is added to the mix. It's hardly a crappy squadron. Other bombers make significant sacrifices and tradeoffs for that extra anti-squadron power.

People seem to forget that a Black die for Anti-squadron has a 75% chance to cause damage. So TIE bombers in mass is SCARY!

Mikael Hasselstein uses them a lot and I have yet to find a good method to counter 4 to 5 of these bombers. . . Well in my play style.

TIE Bombers are indeed great...IMO the best all round anti-ship squadron in the game for the points.

It's a good point about the "Rhymer tax" that has been raised though. I am worried that he is going to badly restrict the design space for Imperial Squadrons, because EVERYTHING they create has to be balanced around the fact it'll probably have a much longer range anti-ship attack

They have boxed themselves in quite badly because of that one ability. I doubt we'll ever see anything more powerful point for point than a Tie Bomber.

Tie Bombers activated with Flight Controllers should be good enough to chew through attacking fighters.

You're rolling one black and one blue, giving you at least one damage in 87.5% of cases, and a double hit in 37.5%. The weakest rebel ship (hull wise) is the A-wing at 4, yet with two tie bombers activated this way you only have a 14% chance of a kill. Activating 4 tie bombers this way and sending them all against a lone A-wing will still only have a kill chance of 59%.

You just spent the squadron command of a VSD with Extra Hangars and Flight Controllers to kill a lone A-wing. In less than 60% of the cases. In 40% of the cases the A-wing just got 4 Counter attacks and is still binding up four of your Tie Bombers.

I use this as a rhymerball:Major Rhymer, 2 TIE bombers, Darth Vader

When activated with flight controllers it will rip though enemy fighters due to Darth Vader doing damage on crits. Darth Vader after flight controllers averages 4 damage and 1 accuracy against squadrons, and he protects the others with his escort and double brace.

The entire squad does damage on crits against ships, but the bombers can also deal faceup damage cards. It's quite potent, and can usually defeat 2 X-wings and luke in a brawl.

Seems a bit undergunned if the enemy can eliminate Vader, which isn't all that hard. You may be able to kill Luke and 2 X-wings, perhaps, but what about the Gallant Haven crew (Luke, Dutch, and Wedge, only a handful more points) or, say, 2 B-wings, Jan, and a Yt-1300 (This one is particularly scary because you can't use accuracy tokens on Jan's braces while you're killing the freightor)?

Quite simply put, you don't engage in gallant haven range. If your opponent is gonna wait just take the shot on gallant haven, or hold the activation till after gallant haven to force him to move out of range. That point you should kill wedge with Vader and 3 bombers.

I use this as a rhymerball:Major Rhymer, 2 TIE bombers, Darth Vader

When activated with flight controllers it will rip though enemy fighters due to Darth Vader doing damage on crits. Darth Vader after flight controllers averages 4 damage and 1 accuracy against squadrons, and he protects the others with his escort and double brace.

The entire squad does damage on crits against ships, but the bombers can also deal faceup damage cards. It's quite potent, and can usually defeat 2 X-wings and luke in a brawl.

Seems a bit undergunned if the enemy can eliminate Vader, which isn't all that hard. You may be able to kill Luke and 2 X-wings, perhaps, but what about the Gallant Haven crew (Luke, Dutch, and Wedge, only a handful more points) or, say, 2 B-wings, Jan, and a Yt-1300 (This one is particularly scary because you can't use accuracy tokens on Jan's braces while you're killing the freightor)?

Quite simply put, you don't engage in gallant haven range. If your opponent is gonna wait just take the shot on gallant haven, or hold the activation till after gallant haven to force him to move out of range. That point you should kill wedge with Vader and 3 bombers.

Yep, this. You ignore them! That's like asking an archer what he plans to do after he runs up to the knight and tries to stabbing him. TIEs are speed 4, but X-wings are speed 3 and tied to the close defence of their fatty.

When running TIE bombers like this they have a dedicated ship ordering them about, to keep them manoeuvrable. When seeing the usual Gallant Haven squad, I would likely do my best to ram a VSD1 down it's throat and open fire. The bombers can go fight corvettes or something.

TIE Bombers are indeed great...IMO the best all round anti-ship squadron in the game for the points.

It's a good point about the "Rhymer tax" that has been raised though. I am worried that he is going to badly restrict the design space for Imperial Squadrons, because EVERYTHING they create has to be balanced around the fact it'll probably have a much longer range anti-ship attack

They have boxed themselves in quite badly because of that one ability. I doubt we'll ever see anything more powerful point for point than a Tie Bomber.

Ya, could you imagine the Empire getting a few B-wings to pair with Rhymer and Corruptor.......

IMO, the plain jane tie bomber is slightly undercosted on its own (dat speed....). Look at the restrictions, for example, a Liberty activation places on speed 4 thingies even though its 7 points (admittedly, maybe 1 or 2 points overcosted?). The threat range of a TIE bomber is incredible.

Adding rhymer's ability for 7 points to make the envelope even bigger? You can conduct a bombing run on your first friggin turn on an activated ship!

I've tried running little experiments of Rhymer + 5 bombers, which a token expanded hangar activation can fling quite a distance. Even if that thing goes off once or twice, they've more than made their points worth. With speed 4/rhymer, it's not all that hard to squadron command them outside of fighter engagement range to deliver the goods. Plus, the fact that EVERY crit lands a face up? That can really hurt: all for the low low cost of 61 points, or around the same as demolisher except it does the job better, earlier, and is a lot harder to blow up in retaliation. If you plop them into a rear arc? Say goodbye to your spaceship!

The fact that jumpmasters are rogue means you can now pull the "reverse speed bump" trick. Just feed them one at a time into the pile of AS to ensure the proton torpedo love keeps coming.

The only counter that's been working? Lots of x-wings or TIE fighters.

In short, I think tie bombers are undercosted, Rhymer as well. Is he broken, though? Not if you take squadrons yourself...

But with Expanded Hangar Bay, you've added five more points. And then you'll probably want to add Chiraneau to keep them moving and that's 10 more points. Even then, you're now playing a cat and mouse game with enemy squadrons with no real threat to any Rebel squadrons (you may be able to take out a stray TIE or two). Now, you can your own anti-squadrons, but now you're spending more points. So yes, they can be good, but they MUST have Rhymer and they usually end up spending a lot of points. And like I said before, any future imperial squadron that is developed is now going to be spending a point or two for the "Rhymer tax" (the points added to the other squadrons to keep his ability from being overpowered). This to me means that you have to use him or you are dumping those tax points down the drain.

There's a simple way around this: don't do what you're describing .

I personally am going to try running rhymer + 7 bombers and a few jumpmasters. If all they do is attack ONCE in full strength, they've probably already made their points back as that's probably destroyed a small ship or strip/crippled a medium+. After that, you just keep moving speed 4 away via jump masters to fight another day!

You COULD do this with a double-arc'd ACM gladiator shot for equivalent damage, but then you're almost certainly going to lose that gladiator.