I'm sure this has been brought up before, but I'm curious, are the rules provided for Force Users in Force and Destiny sufficient for running an Old Republic / Prequel campaign?

Will simply assigning additional XP and Force Rating be enough to replicate an Old Republic Jedi?

Sure. Just keep in mind that in the movies you are mostly following very potent Jedi Masters or a gifted Padawan. As long as you don't have unreasonable expectations to the Jedi in your game based on that you should have no problems.

My feeling is that if you start folks with Knight Level XP, you'll have no issue replicating characters from that era who are "young in their learning". Don't expect to toss around starfighters or use Battle Meditation on a group of 50 right outta the box and you'll be fine.

That being said; you're inspiring me to write an article or arrange for a special podcast on running a SWTOR era game..

Which leads me to an interesting question: at the height of the Order, when lightsabers were both legal to have and relatively common ( relatively being the key word), how do people address/suggest to address giving starting, non-Knight Level PCs 'sabers?

My feeling is that if you start folks with Knight Level XP, you'll have no issue replicating characters from that era who are "young in their learning". Don't expect to toss around starfighters or use Battle Meditation on a group of 50 right outta the box and you'll be fine.

That being said; you're inspiring me to write an article or arrange for a special podcast on running a SWTOR era game..

I was a bit surprised that the books didn't seem to offer suggestions on this, nor do I see allot of articles on this online (although I may be looking at the wrong place).

An article or podcast would be appreciated.

Which leads me to an interesting question: at the height of the Order, when lightsabers were both legal to have and relatively common ( relatively being the key word), how do people address/suggest to address giving starting, non-Knight Level PCs 'sabers?

Common does not necessarily mean handed out to anyone with talent. Lightsabers should be earned, no matter what the setting.

Which leads me to an interesting question: at the height of the Order, when lightsabers were both legal to have and relatively common ( relatively being the key word), how do people address/suggest to address giving starting, non-Knight Level PCs 'sabers?

Give the Jedi a base starting saber, and the non-jedi characters a nice pile of use-or-lose credits (enough for say a blaster rifle and laminate armor) to buy up some additional gear and you should be fine...

Lightsabers are nice, but they are just fancy melee weapons at the end of the day. And with with prevalence of Saber-swingers running around, tactics to counter them should be reasonably well known. That's what I always saw as being the big deal in the Films, it wasn't that fighting a saber-swinger was super-duper hard, it was that it didn't happen often enough for anyone but a real specialist to actually be worth the expense/trouble of training and equipping for it. So the likes of Jango Fett, Cad Bane, Grevious, and Magnaguards know how to handle it, but your average Battledroid doesn't need to be ready for it, because you might see maybe four or five Jedi in an entire theater of operations, and only one or two actually on the battlefield at any given time...

By comparison, in a time where sabers are (relatively) everywhere, while still not something that your typical line trooper will know how to handle, you're more likely to see at least some training in more elite assault units (think regular Infantry vs. Rangers), and there should be some units trained and equipped specifically for dealing with it.

Which leads me to an interesting question: at the height of the Order, when lightsabers were both legal to have and relatively common ( relatively being the key word), how do people address/suggest to address giving starting, non-Knight Level PCs 'sabers?

Give the Jedi a base starting saber, and the non-jedi characters a nice pile of use-or-lose credits (enough for say a blaster rifle and laminate armor) to buy up some additional gear and you should be fine...

Lightsabers are nice, but they are just fancy melee weapons at the end of the day. And with with prevalence of Saber-swingers running around, tactics to counter them should be reasonably well known. That's what I always saw as being the big deal in the Films, it wasn't that fighting a saber-swinger was super-duper hard, it was that it didn't happen often enough for anyone but a real specialist to actually be worth the expense/trouble of training and equipping for it. So the likes of Jango Fett, Cad Bane, Grevious, and Magnaguards know how to handle it, but your average Battledroid doesn't need to be ready for it, because you might see maybe four or five Jedi in an entire theater of operations, and only one or two actually on the battlefield at any given time...

By comparison, in a time where sabers are (relatively) everywhere, while still not something that your typical line trooper will know how to handle, you're more likely to see at least some training in more elite assault units (think regular Infantry vs. Rangers), and there should be some units trained and equipped specifically for dealing with it.

Makes sense.

I figure you have multiple scenarios to deal with. The scenario the game is set in, where lightsabers are illegal, super rare and highly prized. Scenarios where the Order is on the decline/mend, so 'sabers aren't illegal but not exceptionally common (Clone Wars, Luke's Order a la Legends). And then scenarios where the Jedi (and the Sith) are at their height, so even mercenary thugs have access to weapons designed to counter sabers (KotOR, TOR).

I was mostly asking about scenario 2; The Clone Wars shows that Jedi gain their 'sabers at a pretty young age, but before they are actually 'field ready', or beginning level PC.

Which leads me to an interesting question: at the height of the Order, when lightsabers were both legal to have and relatively common ( relatively being the key word), how do people address/suggest to address giving starting, non-Knight Level PCs 'sabers?

What I would do is start the player with a 10 point Obligation of "Dutybound"; the Jedi had been given a lightsaber by the order and they are obligated to learn how to wield it responsibly. It is a symbol of office, a lethal weapon, and an object of political weight. The Jedi Padawan needs to learn how to use the lightsaber, and how NOT to use the lightsaber.

I'd have that Obligation remain in-place until something monumental occurs in the Jedi's career that shows they have the wisdom to use their lightsaber responsibly, and can only be bought off completely when they pass their trials.

(Oh, and in case I wasn't clear; the basic Lightsaber is the reward for taking the Obligation, they don't get additional credits or XP or anything else like that...)

Which leads me to an interesting question: at the height of the Order, when lightsabers were both legal to have and relatively common ( relatively being the key word), how do people address/suggest to address giving starting, non-Knight Level PCs 'sabers?

Give the Jedi a base starting saber, and the non-jedi characters a nice pile of use-or-lose credits (enough for say a blaster rifle and laminate armor) to buy up some additional gear and you should be fine...

Lightsabers are nice, but they are just fancy melee weapons at the end of the day. And with with prevalence of Saber-swingers running around, tactics to counter them should be reasonably well known. That's what I always saw as being the big deal in the Films, it wasn't that fighting a saber-swinger was super-duper hard, it was that it didn't happen often enough for anyone but a real specialist to actually be worth the expense/trouble of training and equipping for it. So the likes of Jango Fett, Cad Bane, Grevious, and Magnaguards know how to handle it, but your average Battledroid doesn't need to be ready for it, because you might see maybe four or five Jedi in an entire theater of operations, and only one or two actually on the battlefield at any given time...

By comparison, in a time where sabers are (relatively) everywhere, while still not something that your typical line trooper will know how to handle, you're more likely to see at least some training in more elite assault units (think regular Infantry vs. Rangers), and there should be some units trained and equipped specifically for dealing with it.

Makes sense.

I figure you have multiple scenarios to deal with. The scenario the game is set in, where lightsabers are illegal, super rare and highly prized. Scenarios where the Order is on the decline/mend, so 'sabers aren't illegal but not exceptionally common (Clone Wars, Luke's Order a la Legends). And then scenarios where the Jedi (and the Sith) are at their height, so even mercenary thugs have access to weapons designed to counter sabers (KotOR, TOR).

I was mostly asking about scenario 2; The Clone Wars shows that Jedi gain their 'sabers at a pretty young age, but before they are actually 'field ready', or beginning level PC.

Yeah, I think I lost my point. All I meant was you can give the other players a chance to get some additional nice but not world-ending gear so they don't feel outclassed by the saber, and in a setting where sabers are common, if they start to cause issues you'll have no problem explaining why the opponents are using counter-saber-specific tactics and gear...

Which leads me to an interesting question: at the height of the Order, when lightsabers were both legal to have and relatively common ( relatively being the key word), how do people address/suggest to address giving starting, non-Knight Level PCs 'sabers?

What I would do is start the player with a 10 point Obligation of "Dutybound"; the Jedi had been given a lightsaber by the order and they are obligated to learn how to wield it responsibly. It is a symbol of office, a lethal weapon, and an object of political weight. The Jedi Padawan needs to learn how to use the lightsaber, and how NOT to use the lightsaber.

I'd have that Obligation remain in-place until something monumental occurs in the Jedi's career that shows they have the wisdom to use their lightsaber responsibly, and can only be bought off completely when they pass their trials.

(Oh, and in case I wasn't clear; the basic Lightsaber is the reward for taking the Obligation, they don't get additional credits or XP or anything else like that...)

I like that approach, but if you are going Old Republic, there is nothing that says that they need to start in the rigid Jedi Order structure or as a powerful Jedi Knight. They could start with just a training lightsaber and some distant guidance from a non-Jedi Order tradition mentor/master and adventures (see FaD's current adventures) to gain the weapon. My personal preference is developing the "starting resources" as part of the first sessions instead of as a grant at the beginning of the campaign. In a mixed group maybe one of the characters starts the campaign learning that he/she inherits an uncle's clunky old starship that is locked up until something, something (adventure #1,#2) and during the adventure(s), there are clues that lead the Force user to the acquisition of a lightsaber crystal and a training holo, etc. ...

My feeling is that if you start folks with Knight Level XP, you'll have no issue replicating characters from that era who are "young in their learning". Don't expect to toss around starfighters or use Battle Meditation on a group of 50 right outta the box and you'll be fine.

That being said; you're inspiring me to write an article or arrange for a special podcast on running a SWTOR era game..

I'm running a Clone Wars jedi game here on the forum, and am getting positive feedback from my group as far as shifting toward a similar setting on our rotating-GM game.

My restrictions right now are:

FR2+

At least 1 rank of Reflect

At least 1 rank of Discipline and Lore

Basic powers (with mentor discount) for Enhance, Influence, Move, and Sence

In my experience, by the time these restrctions are filled on a Knight level PC, there is a small, reasonable pool of customization points left for stats, skills powers, and talents, in addition to the talents chosen as your route to FR2. You are left about as competent (skillwise) as a starting, 0XP characcter, but with a broader upgrade base, especially if you started with 2 specializations to meet FR and Reflect requirements.

I tried coming up with simiar requirements for elite clones, like Skywalker's Rex or Kenobi's Cody, but my sample group found that building a jedi next to building a clone, the clone was SWIMMING in XP and credits. I'm thinking requiring Dedication and at least 2 or even 3 trees, to reign in the more focused carbon copies. An Old Republic game would have similar isues, where a remotely competent force user is competing with Jango Fett or Cad Bane in the same party.

Knight level I would only do if this was my group's second campaign. As in, after an EotE campaign they decide to do a Jedi campaign during the Clone Wars. The RAW would handle this nicely. You only need to extrapolate some stats for some NPCs and vehicles that aren't available yet - Clone Troopers, ARC-170, etc.

I would actually prefer a campaign that didn't start at Knight level during the Old Republic/Clone Wars, but it would have a few issues to resolve. A group of new Padawan PCs would be more fun, watching them grow, instead of starting out as Jedi Knights from day one. There would be problems to contend with. The player that wanted to play the 40-something Padawan would have to make up a good reason his Padawan wasn't a youngster. Also, there is an issue of canon implying there's a Knight for every Padawan, so that makes lots of Jedi NPCs to tag along or find something to do if every PC is a Padawan. With skill and forethought, a GM and Players could have a group that includes a couple Padawan PCs with other PCs as support droids or Clone Troopers, and finally 2 Knight NPCs for the Padawans? The GM would have to ensure the Knights were often off doing there own thing without the Padawans or somehow deal with the Knights not over-shadowing everything the PCs do. It would take some thinking......

1) After starting adventures, Padawans and Clone Troopers are stranded, left for dead perhaps, on an out-of-the-way planet during the Clone Wars. Their Jedi Knight mentors were killed. A short campaign of survival behind enemy lines and making their way home......

2) The Jedi Knight mentors are kidnapped by Separatists or otherwise go missing. The Padawans are told not to go looking for them, leave it to others, but the Padawans go rogue and convince the Clone Trooper squad with them they are on a legitimate search and rescue mission across the Galaxy.......

3) The old fugitive story. The Padawans and the Clone squad with them are somehow framed ( by a Nemesis?) for an atrocity. The Padawans and Clones thus are on the run through many misadventures while always trying to find evidence (and the Nemesis) in order to clear their names.

That's all I've got.

I tried coming up with simiar requirements for elite clones, like Skywalker's Rex or Kenobi's Cody, but my sample group found that building a jedi next to building a clone, the clone was SWIMMING in XP and credits. I'm thinking requiring Dedication and at least 2 or even 3 trees, to reign in the more focused carbon copies.

While I agree that that knight-level credit bonuses may be too high for a non-Jedi (I went on a shopping spree and still have 3k), I don't really think I was swimming in XP. In fact, I had a very specific fictional character in mind when I built Jax, and I don't yet have the XP needed to really say that he's there (as he needs both Dedication and a second tree). I could have pulled off a second tree OR Dedication, but both? My gut tells me that my character would be a lot less effective with those restrictions.

Oh, and as a humorous aside, I got a chuckle about you not wanting clone troopers to be carbon copies of each other.

Which leads me to an interesting question: at the height of the Order, when lightsabers were both legal to have and relatively common ( relatively being the key word), how do people address/suggest to address giving starting, non-Knight Level PCs 'sabers?

Even in the Old Republic MMO, starting Sith have a Sith sword not a lightsaber and I think (could be wrong on this one, it's been a while) starting Jedi get a training saber. They need to work their way up to full lightsabers. Seems entirely appropriate than in the tabletop game they do the same.

Which leads me to an interesting question: at the height of the Order, when lightsabers were both legal to have and relatively common ( relatively being the key word), how do people address/suggest to address giving starting, non-Knight Level PCs 'sabers?

Even in the Old Republic MMO, starting Sith have a Sith sword not a lightsaber and I think (could be wrong on this one, it's been a while) starting Jedi get a training saber. They need to work their way up to full lightsabers. Seems entirely appropriate than in the tabletop game they do the same.

Both start with "vibro-blades" that use the lightsaber skill; so, arguably, they start with ancient swords and work their way up to Sabers.

Just like what tends to happen in a Rebellion Era FFG game...

More specifically, what would you do in the Rise of the Empire era, where Jedi acquire their lightsabers at close to preteen age?

More specifically, what would you do in the Rise of the Empire era, where Jedi acquire their lightsabers at close to preteen age?

Easy, start at Knight level.

And if you don't want to do that?

And if you don't want to do that?

Play Agri-corp jedi academy washouts? Give padawons training sabers till they complete their crystal quest?

In D&D, you cant throw bolts of lightning at level 1. By the same token a Jedi in this system is more than a starting character.

My point is that The Clone Wars shows a scenario almost inverse of what we see in The Old Republic (Jedi classes only, at least). In the latter case, you don't get a lightsaber until around level 10 after many trials, and then you proceed to knighthood; all of that is approximate to the game we have. The former case, though, shows that getting your lightsaber follows being born Force-sensitive and being able to reach the top shelf of the fridge.

It's not 'after many arduous trials, we award you your lightsaber and the rank of Knight, go forth and protect the Republic', it's 'by finding your crystal and constructing your lightsaber, you have proven you have what it takes to continue your training; a few more years of training and tutelage under a Master, and you might qualify to do a few things on your own (read: roughly starting PC level), and then after a while of that we'll discuss Knighthood; you're still a total pushover at the moment -- don't go to the latrine without the protection of two Knights, at least, though, that's dangerous '.

"Knight" level doesn't necessarily have to denote a Jedi Knight. It is just a name to show a more experienced character. That character can be whatever fits for you and your group. A group of pre-teens Force-users, padawans or junior Knights or whatever floats your boat.

My point is that The Clone Wars shows a scenario almost inverse of what we see in The Old Republic (Jedi classes only, at least). In the latter case, you don't get a lightsaber until around level 10 after many trials, and then you proceed to knighthood; all of that is approximate to the game we have. The former case, though, shows that getting your lightsaber follows being born Force-sensitive and being able to reach the top shelf of the fridge.

It's not 'after many arduous trials, we award you your lightsaber and the rank of Knight, go forth and protect the Republic', it's 'by finding your crystal and constructing your lightsaber, you have proven you have what it takes to continue your training; a few more years of training and tutelage under a Master, and you might qualify to do a few things on your own (read: roughly starting PC level), and then after a while of that we'll discuss Knighthood; you're still a total pushover at the moment -- don't go to the latrine without the protection of two Knights, at least, though, that's dangerous '.

I'm pretty sure all the younglings have training shotos. Which you CAN buy as a starting character.

All the padawons we've seen in the field are clearly FR2, which to me says Knight level.

Does a training saber look like a regular saber, just without the "lose your limb" quality a full blown saber has?

I'm going to bow out, because I am very terrible at explaining my thought process.

I suppose it's a matter of interpretation; I'm thinking of how the fiction regarded them, which is not competent, self-sufficient individuals, but as inexperienced and way in over their heads.

I am not viewing them as starting level PC, so an actual starting level PC that grew up in their same circumstances, who would be a little older and regarded as truly field and battle ready, would begin with a lightsaber. That's how I look at it, so that's why I asked. Sorry for rustling everybody's feathers.