I've gone to a few tournements and found that when I hand in my list the TO will make a comment that my list could use some tweeking. Ususally in the form or why arn't you using <BLANK> card instead of <BLANK>. Well it's because I don't have it and I'm not paying for a ship I have no intension of using and I'm not going to buy a card individually for $5.

Based on this, how do you make sure your buillds are the most compeditive they can be, without buying every ship that comes out?

Are there really good builds with just the cards that came with each ship?

Looking for build theory and not what ships exactly to use.

1 - Use proxies for casual play as you test out builds that you don't have the cards to.

2 - Borrow said card(s) for said competition if during your test, you found something that worked.

FFG's business model is pretty much built around buying expansions not just for the ship but for the upgrades too.

Building with only the upgrades in the ships own expansion will be quite limiting until/unless your collection grows.

It's mainly swarmy ships that can be built that way I would think (Ties BBBBZ etc).

I don't own every card but I do have a fair collection. Also being in a friendly group for swappsies helps. Eg I don't have a raider and probably never will (despite thinking its awesome) so I traded for X1 and ATC for Vader with someone that did t nneed all 4.

I'd say you can be competitive without buying expansions just for the cards but you will be restricted in build choice and struggle to have a AAA grade build.

BBBBZ

Is the obvious example, but there's quite a few all-generic pilot lists that offer a decent amount of bang for your buck, competitively speaking.

As an added bonus you can use the original damage deck and ignore Injured Pilot crits!

I think the trick is to practice with your lists a lot. It's true that some upgrades are just better than others, but then, those upgrades aren't doing what other upgrades can do. You need to fly in such a way that you are taking advantage of your sub-par upgrades. In many cases, it still may be an uphill battle, but if you can predict your opponents well enough, you can come out on top.

Of course, this all sounds vague since every card combo will be different. But you're not the only one in this situation so maybe that will make you feel better. People are always telling me to put Twin Laser Turret on my Y-wings, but I don't have a K-wing yet. Everyone said I needed Predator or Push the Limit on my Aggressors, but earlier this year I had only one copy of PtL and didn't get Predator until the Kihraxz came out. For store championships, I decided to put Outmaneuver on IG-88D to leverage that Elite upgrade against my enemy by using D's extra maneuverability. Advance Sensors made him even more slippery.

I totally empathize with you, though. It's really tough to build for certain ships/pilots without purchasing out-of-faction ships. Even in the list above I bought an E-wing I'll never fly just for the systems upgrades.

Well, in my town on one of WFB tourneys some guy jumped onto the table and launched himself onto the opponent. So, there is the direct approach tactic.

It can be hard, and especially when the TO themselves is the one to make a negative comment like that, but all you can really do is engage in the forums or with other players and discuss what goes best where.

All you want to do is develop an informed opinion on what works with what, and after that you're entitled to whatever opinion or list you develop. I've had some players come to local tourneys that ran things and combos I would never field, but 1) that's only my opinion, and 2) I know for a fact they don't have everything, let alone multiples of everything. So it isn't my place to tell them what they should want to do. However, if their list works against itself in a match, if I win against them I generally offer advice as to where I think they could improve their squad. "I think this guy is too expensive," or "You might want to try a different Talent on her since I didn't see you really use the one she's got" are about as negative as I try to sound.

I'm pretty experienced but I don't know everything. I love talking about the game because different people have such different perspectives, and I love when we both come up with new things we wouldn't have thought of on our own. There are a number of "bad" combos but only as much as they won't generally interact or proc or whatever during the match. After that, a lot of it can be chalked up to personal preference!

Print them off in good quality and then pop them in a card holder. No one will be the wiser. I dont do this myself, but I would not care at all if my opponent did.

beg and borrow .... I loan cards to friends all the time. But as a joke I have one rule "You cant use the card against me"

I've gone to a few tournements and found that when I hand in my list the TO will make a comment that my list could use some tweeking. Ususally in the form or why arn't you using <BLANK> card instead of <BLANK>. Well it's because I don't have it and I'm not paying for a ship I have no intension of using and I'm not going to buy a card individually for $5.

Based on this, how do you make sure your buillds are the most compeditive they can be, without buying every ship that comes out?

Are there really good builds with just the cards that came with each ship?

Looking for build theory and not what ships exactly to use.

It's just five bucks or a starviper. And you can probably sell the ship without the upgrade to someone who's just starting the game.

Also if you're looking for builds with minimal cards, 5 naked K-fighters or 4 K-fighters with glitterstim might be just up your alley.

I'd like to know the squad and your collection.

Generally though, there are some superior choices, and they are usually the most efficient ones.

That being said, the inefficient ones also have some other quirk that you need to leverage against your opponent as best you can. As others have said, keep practicing till you get it.

It can be hard, and especially when the TO themselves is the one to make a negative comment like that...

Yeah, that's one thing that really bugs me when a TO has to make remarks like that.

I remember my very first X-Wing tournament, the TO was talking to my opponent before the first round and basically said "when you win you'll probably be playing so-and-so next..." then he saw me watching and said "oh, sorry, IF you win..."

... to which I thought, cheers pal, that's just what I wanted to hear.

But anyway...

I think a lot of people fall into the upgrade trap. I've had some of my best competitive results fielding lists with few upgrades (if any), and the times I've took upgrade heavy lists I've usually regretted it.

Sure, upgrades are there to improve your ships and increase your chances, and there's a lot of really good upgrades which you can build lists around. And there's certainly a degree of pressure to have all the upgrades and to be able to field any list at any time. But you don't need them all to be able to put together a competitive list.

You can create a competitive list by fitting as many ships and attacks on the board as possible. Whether you're using generic pilots or naked Elite pilots, simply packing the numbers in (whether number of ships/attacks, number of red/green dice thrown or amount of overall health) can give you a reliable, tough-to-beat list.

Hey Salacious,

Do you mind telling us what ships you own and what ships you'd like to fly? That would help us a lot in giving you some tips on what ships to prioritize for upgrade cards.

But to answer your question of how to stay competitive without buying ships that you don't intend to fly:

1. Figure out what ships you like
2. If you want, buy a few kits with upgrade cards for those ships
3. Fly the hell out of that list and have a blast

X-wing is balanced enough that almost every ship is viable and competitive. Don't be afraid to make a list that's your own and learn to dominate with it

For example, my first 3 months of X-wing, all I bought was 2 Core Sets and a Firespray. I ran Krassis/Kath with 4 TIE Fighters non-stop, had a blast doing it, and learned a lot about the game that helped me decide on my next purchases.

Hope that helps.

1) The TO should keep their snide remarks to themselves. If it's an attempt to be helpful, fine. However, throwing around comments to make a player question their build before the start of a tournament can throw off some people's game by making them second-guess themselves. Not fair, and not cool.

2) Having every card isn't going to assure you win. Trust me. I've bought multiples of every ship released and I don't win all the time. Or even most of the time.

3) Build a list that you like, and that you can fly well with the things you have. As noted, a list of what you do have may be useful for better, and more personalized, helpful critiques of your options.

TO was areguably out of line here even though he may have been trying to be helpful. Even if you do take a suboptimal list its up to you to learn and adapt to what makes your list good or weak. You will learn pretty quickly the strenghts and weaknesses of your list, and how to either overcome them by flying better or change it up.

As others have also said, build a list you LIKE to fly. Just yesterday I was showing a person some of the finer nuances of flying phantoms, interceptors, and tie fighters. He's relatively new and just likes those ships, so instead of telling him to learn to fly something a little more robust I showed him how to plan a couple turns out with the ships he likes. I'd set my dials, then talk him through the thought/dials process without giving away what I did. He ended up beating my Palp+2 Aces list with a Whisper/Soontir/2 Academies. He kept Palp from getting shots, forced me to engage in the asteroid field, then outflew my ships and got the dice to cooperate at the right time. For the last move, I was pinned behind a rock with Soontir, and he was able to get Whisper out of Soontir's arc (I had initiative) to deal the final blow!

Also, having every card will not get you a win. You can netlist anything you want, without the experience of flying it and knowing when and where to engage you won't perform well with it.

Keep flying what you LIKE to fly, and don't get discouraged. I guarantee at some point you'll surprise someone!

I've gone to a few tournements and found that when I hand in my list the TO will make a comment that my list could use some tweeking. Ususally in the form or why arn't you using <BLANK> card instead of <BLANK>. Well it's because I don't have it and I'm not paying for a ship I have no intension of using and I'm not going to buy a card individually for $5.

Based on this, how do you make sure your buillds are the most compeditive they can be, without buying every ship that comes out?

Are there really good builds with just the cards that came with each ship?

Looking for build theory and not what ships exactly to use.

I would say this is very subjective. As already mentioned there are a number of points to this in my eyes.

1. TO should (at least) wait till the end of the tourney to help you tweak a list and probably find a better approach so as to not sound so abrasive. Probably trying to help you but coming off a bit elitist.

2. 8 Academy TIE's, BBBBZ, 5 Khirazhxxhxkjlkd's, dead mans switch z swarms etc. are a few lists that can be fielded out of the box with out any additional ships for upgrades

3. The internet is wrong sometimes. If I listened to all the comments about my KBBZ build; I wouldn't have got 2nd at the last tourney with it. Don't be afraid to create something different from a standard "meta list", I was scared of a Miranda and double generic e-wing shield regen list recently that the internet would hate. Because the numbers show generic e-wings suck, right?

4. "The most competitive they can be..." will usually involve making the most out of your builds strengths and weaknesses and knowing how to position/use action economy to make the most of it. This will vary hugely between builds as to how to tweak it. Generally I'd say focus on an aspect of the build (defence, attack, mobility, etc.) and maximise it to your flying style and builds natural strengths.

Hope that helps a bit...

Not much to add as this is all great advise. I'm still fairly new to the game and I'm obsessed with the YT-2400 because I played the hell out of Shadows of the Empire as a kid and have built a ton of list that aren't necessarily "meta" lists. To reiterate whats been said I think its most important, at least in the beginning, to find a ship(s) that you really like to fly regardless of its optimal place in the meta. Knowing how to fly it will win you way more games than making sure you have the optimal upgrades on it.

While I'm thinking of the meta you also have to consider its pretty **** open atm. Sure you have a few popular "flavor of the month" lists but you can build just about anything and be competitive. Also I would like to give your TO the benefit of the doubt but if he/she was being snide or rude about it thats not cool.

Turned this into a mini-exercise of what are some useful "Out of the Box" builds that use nothing other than cards that come with a particular ship.

Hard to beat a Kihrlkajfdklj with Predator and Glitterstim. Black Sun Ace with those two and a homing missile comes out to 33 points. Three of those won't be a world winner but could be fun and runs you three small expansions for all the cards you need. Can probably get an extra damage deck and templates from a buddy and play a halfway decent list for $30-45. Not too shabby.

the unpronounceable fighter comes out of the box utterly viable

all you need it glitterstim + crackshot, assuming you're not just running the Marauder

unless you want to go all generic you will need some upgrades from ships you may not want to fly to be competitive at the highest levels. Sorry but that is just the way it is. If your area is anything like mine there are always guys willing to let you borrow for a tournament. But the best advice I have heard is, put together a list and play it. A LOT. Once you are very comfortable with it, then go about figuring out what upgrades you need. Also, the meta in your area may determine what you have to play to be effective. There should be a facebook group for X-Wing in your area. And if not then start one and advertise it at the LFGS. The more people you meet and weekly practice you get the better you will be. And you might find you enjoy hanging out with people that you might never have met other than through X-Wing. Good luck. Remember you don't have to buy every ship, just the ones you really need. And make a point to support your LFGS.

So, I will echo here a handful of things that have already been said, with a few caveats.

For causal pickup games, events and tournaments, print of proxy copies and try stuff out. That is just fine. No harm no foul really. Fly Casual.

However at the higher level events like Regionals, Nationals, Worlds, etc... things are a little different. You need the real card, bottom line. So either borrow said card from a friend or bite the bullet and buy the ship/expansion you need to to get the cards. We all have to do it, and so should you. For those who advised to just print one and try to get away with it, I have seen now three people disqualified from events for doing just that. So do so at your own risk. The stigma that comes with that is not worth it, really. So just don't do it. My best piece of advice right there.

Bottom line, if you intend to go to events of that level where the real card is required, then you are at least taking the game serious enough that you'd like to go to an event like that and do well. If you take the game that serious then you need to buy expansion and consider them as not just the ships, but the upgrades as well. Quick show of hand for those who own 3 plus shuttles because we needed Advanced Sensors? Anyone? I know I did. CR-90 for 3P0 Anyone??? $100... for a card? We all did it!

I suspect the forthcoming T-70 expansion should be ok out of the box, with Integrated Astromech and whatever the Targeting Astromech does (it almost certainly enhances action economy and that is a good thing).

However, I think the key I try and drill into players near me, is that there is a bunch of people who have everything and almost all of us are willing to lend cards out for tournaments. For casual games I recommend you play with lists printed out from one of the List Builders which will have the card text on them now (general rule, don't proxy ships just upgrades, unless you are in you own home, then you can do whatever). You are unlikely to run into anyone who won't let you test a list this way (though bear in mind some players don't like playing against unreleased content). In fact using printed lists is how I encourage new players to get into the game. For a newer player there is just too many cards and they come from all over the place. Let them them buy the ships they want to play and let them proxy (and/or borrow) the cards they don't have. Not letting people play what they want is a sure fire way to lose them as players in the future. Eventually they all become addicts anyway...

There may be some overeacting here. The TO offered some tips to make the list more effective, is this such a bad thing? This is a game that involves spending money, is it out of line for someone to suggest buying certain ships?

There may be some overeacting here. The TO offered some tips to make the list more effective, is this such a bad thing? This is a game that involves spending money, is it out of line for someone to suggest buying certain ships?

Yes it's out of line to offer negative input on a list without being asked. Same with assuming someone has the capacity to spend more money on the hobby. It's rude and doesn't contribute to a positive play experience, which is really all a TO should be striving towards.

Absolutely. The last thing you want to be doing before a tournament starts is second guessing yourself and the list you're using.