Hopefully this will give folks something to talk about besides the new damage deck AND be a good worlds intellectual exercise, going or not:

It feels like the PS War dodged TLTs. Instead of TLTs ending the PS war it seems like they may have amplified the issue. If you're already bidding up to 4 to beat These generics (or 5-7 to beat those that already beat PS 2) then why not go all in on PS 8+?

The empire has always excelled at the PS war. S&V are still lacking in the PS 8-9 range, and the rebels are not much better off until the xwing fix is in now that Han has finally been tamed and Corran is probably the biggest loser with TLTs.

So what needs to happen to our game so that both generics and aces can be meaningful? How important is PS9 right now? How big is the initiative bid to accompany your PS8-11 Ace?

I have at least one idea but I'll let others speak first.

I have always liked to run one ace plus scrubs or all mid pilot skill guys. The ace+scrubs gives you one early shooter and maybe some blocking and is usually my favorite type to run. The mid skill guys tend to have really nice abilities that make them much better then the scrubs but you get less ships. The empire certainly has the bigger advantage in cost effective Ace pilots now that the Advanced is such a beast. I am personally glad that the PS 9 craze is over. I don't think that there much need to worry. I still find that a wide mix of lists are viable. The TLT has shaken some things up but it isn't invincible.

Depends on the area. Atlanta is still reaching for the aces, to control the engagement ranges in a post-maneuver world. However, it's not even across the board. It's usually a high pilot skill, high threat ship flanked by low pilot skill wingmen - which you will notice is pretty much the same as ever.

In our "meta" really the idea is your 9 or not. No one really bids for ps unless their squad needs to go first.

Still not seeing much of a PS war nor ant evidence that tlts warrant so much discussion

I do fly black squadrons now, but that's because crackshot is sexy and the enemy of my enemy

Well, there was a PS war of course, but it came at the same time as the turret wars.

All thanks to the Phantom Menace, or the overpowerment of VI.

Before that, the swarm held the Falcon in check, but the Phantom slaughtered the Swarm and you needed to race to the top to stay after Whisper. That led to Fat Han. Now that the TLT has taken 3P0 down, balance has been restored.

Most squadrons I face are based around some PS 8+ ace. Occasionally someone will fly a PS 2 spam squad like quad advanced or quad TLT, but it's not common enough to make a bid to Obsidian or Black or Sigma actually relevant.

The problem with ace + wad of filler is that a wad of 4-5 Z's or TIEs tends not to really accomplish anything now that you have to get through 3 agility and a wad of defensive tokens first. Poe at range 3 with autothrusters can kind of just endlessly get shot at, it's ridiculous.

I've kind of decided to actually join the meta for once, so I'm going to be flying my own double ace list. Yeah, they're blatantly OP but whatever, at least they're not turrets. The old pre-phantom Genericwing (which I prefer) has kind of been flip flopped to Acewing, but it's far better than Turretwing so I'm semi-okay with it. Plus I haven't really been playing named pilots so it'll be new for me.

At my LGS, everyone seems to be running Ace + filler. I am running Poe, but others have run Imperial Aces or Scum Ace + fillers. Currently, there are only a handful of us playing, but everyone is willing to shell out money to run top tier squads, so at least the competition level is higher.

< PS2 has been at a disadvantage since Predator. I ran dual Pred BroBots at the last tournament I was at and crushed both Y-Wing lists I faced (one was TLT and one was 50/50 TLT/BTL).

Getting to re-roll 2 dice on offense is just sick. Against low Ag ships Predator makes the low PS list makers want to wrap it up early.

I think a case can be made for a cheap PS bid on a swarm. Academies to Obsidians or Bandits to Talas. There is still a bit of a dead zone 5-8.

My working theory is two fold

1) Mid range PS squads need 2 battle plans, depending on if they out PS their opponents or not. Not difficult, but it's still easier to have 1 battle plan and go for the PS bid, or to ignore it and just put more bodies in the table.

2) To play against a higher PS squad you need numbers and blockers. Mid range PS squads have less ships on the board typically than low PS squads, so sacrifice much more firepower when one of them is assigned to blocking duty.

Still not seeing much of a PS war nor ant evidence that tlts warrant so much discussion

I do fly black squadrons now, but that's because crackshot is sexy and the enemy of my enemy

Count me in as another Black Sqd Crack Shot lover. Of course, it doesn't hurt that it's also PS4 to negate that extra Predator roll.

Nowadays, I just ignore the initiative bid and go for PS3 swarm, intelligence agent or PS10 to counter the aces - Palpatine, Vader, Soontir especially. It's usually VI Boba, Whisper with intelligence agent, or just full swarm for blocking.

I find bids are getting increasingly competitive in the current meta now that ace archetypes are starting to take over, and that makes bidding too unreliable for me. It's not unrealistic to see a 96 point bid (e.g. Vader [ATC, Prockets], Soontir [AT, PTL, TC], and Palpatine).

It seems like some people are confusing PS and initiative bids. Making a PS bid is not the same thing as an initiative bid. An initiative bid is spending less than the full amount of points in hopes of being able to choose which player receives initiative. A PS bid is when you spend points in hopes of having higher PS than your opponent.

Brobots with VI are making a PS bid. The points (and opportunity cost) that they pay to get to PS 8 are completely useless against ships at lower PS than 6 or higher than 8. Deciding to bring Daggers instead of Blues because you expect to fight a lot of PS 2 ships is a PS bid.

I realized that I have been making bum PS buys awhile back. Why spend points on Black Squadron Pilot if he shoots last anyways?

Paying attention to this function has saved me a ton of points and lead to better list building. I also don't really own any high PS Aces yet, so there is that too. Works the same on higher PS too though. Why bother paying for ps7 when facing off against ps8 all day?

I realized that I have been making bum PS buys awhile back. Why spend points on Black Squadron Pilot if he shoots last anyways?

already answered

(Crackshot)

I realized that I have been making bum PS buys awhile back. Why spend points on Black Squadron Pilot if he shoots last anyways?

already answered

(Crackshot)

And Draw Their Fire if running Howl alongside.

I don't think you will ever get rid of PS 9 pilots. Too many people love Soontir Fel and others. Darth Vader is now back again. Phantoms will return. I don't think some people will ever stop a 3 Aces list (or fewer).

I don't think you will ever get rid of PS 9 pilots. Too many people love Soontir Fel and others. Darth Vader is now back again. Phantoms will return. I don't think some people will ever stop a 3 Aces list (or fewer).

I wish they had given more of the PS5 and 6 named pilots EPT slots and made sure that the stronger pilot abilities ended up on on those ships. I think that would have created an incentive to take those pilots instead of going with the highest PS that you can get.

speaking of PS 6 pilots, freaking Deathrain's here to take care of that PS 9 nonsense

Conner nets!!!!!!!!!

speaking of PS 6 pilots, freaking Deathrain's here to take care of that PS 9 nonsense

Conner nets!!!!!!!!!

God I love Deathrain, but I just wish he/she had 2 agility or was cheaper

It seems like some people are confusing PS and initiative bids. Making a PS bid is not the same thing as an initiative bid. An initiative bid is spending less than the full amount of points in hopes of being able to choose which player receives initiative. A PS bid is when you spend points in hopes of having higher PS than your opponent.

Brobots with VI are making a PS bid. The points (and opportunity cost) that they pay to get to PS 8 are completely useless against ships at lower PS than 6 or higher than 8. Deciding to bring Daggers instead of Blues because you expect to fight a lot of PS 2 ships is a PS bid.

Yah. There has been a pretty consistent PS war since Bloody Daggers (way back) but for various reasons 5-8 never happens (well, Jax and new fett are kinda splashy now). I would not be surprised to see a significant portion of the field going 10-11 this year or 8-10 with Init bids.

The main reason we don't see a lot of PS5-7 is that most of them have very niche abilities that don't protect them from higher PS ships AND, especially recently, FFG keeps making named pilots without an EPT at this range. They are unattractive alternatives AND can't compete with higher PS ships. We need more Jax and Mux like abilities.

Deathrain gets eaten alive by the stress hog. Start dumping stress on Deathrain and he gets turned in to a beefy tie fighter, is 1 green dice. Hell stress hog seems to be the solution to any ship in the game right now. Except maybe Tyco.

Deathrain gets eaten alive by the stress hog. Start dumping stress on Deathrain and he gets turned in to a beefy tie fighter, is 1 green dice. Hell stress hog seems to be the solution to any ship in the game right now. Except maybe Tyco.

You don't need actions to drop a Proton Bomb!

Deathrain is a great example of a mid PS pilot with an ability that helps him compete with aces. I hope someone figures him out for Worlds! But I think there might be just enough TLTs to scare people off him. I would also say "notice the lack of EPT" but no punishers have it. Both, however, are pretty good benchmarks for what an EPTless Ace needs to look like: action economy, "bends" a niche rule, ability works well regardless of PS, is one of the best choices in the game for 1 role.

Red Ace will be another usable EPTless mid PS, able to double the effectiveness of a Regen droid like R2D2.