OK, so, now that RT has hit the shelves how do you think this is going to work?

As far as i understand, the opriginal intent for DH/RT/DW was essentially three game settings or rather three reflections of the same game setting, each with progressively 'powerful' PCs, that would ultimately assimilate into a single 40k uber-game suite.

Now that RT is out, how are people relating it to DH?

Is DH dead for you?

Have you ditched it n favour of 'swashbuckling on the High Void'?

Have you instead integrated or attempted to integrate the two games together?

If so, how's it going?

Do the rules map across well (i know they're the basically the same - but have you found any issues)?

Does the setting integrate seamlessly?

me and my group have played so much DH we are going to start just playing RT. Probably after the first or second RT campaign we will start blending the two together.

Got my two Dark Heresy games going, going to continue them as such. While it's awful tempting to start up a Rogue Trader game I don't have the time for it. Still, I'd like to play in one, and I can see one of my DH games possibly progressing into Rogue Trader down the line. Of course, Ascension will be out by then.

Some stuff from Rogue Trader is making it across mechanics wise. Fettered/Unfettered/Push manifesting of psychic powers is the major thing, and equipment, new psychic powers and the small tweaks to talents that were made will also be ported across. One group might also work their way into acquiring a Profit factor as they work their way further into their master's good books.

We're in the process of taking a break from Dark Heresy in favor of Rogue Trader. Mostly because we've been waiting a long time for Rogue Trader and want to test it out. But we're not gonna abandon Dark Heresy for it (since we're in the middle of a campaign in DH anyway), we're probably going to use a lot of stuff from Rogue Trader, and we might invent campaigns that blend over from one to the other in the future. But as it is, no game will replace the other. It all depends on what kind of setting we're in the mood for. Im quite sure that Rogue Trader have an equal potential of growing dull if you play it too much as Dark Heresy has.

That being said, we played Dark Heresy for more than a year straight without ever playing any other RPG and we still didn't grew tired of it. Our biggest problem was mainly to invent new scenarios for it, and we had to take several long breaks so our game masters (me included since we take turns) either track down pre written scenarios online or make up our own.

I find that RT rules are basically DH 2.0. DH with eratta is very close to RT in many respects. The main issue is psykers. There is a huge disconnect between RT psykers and DH psykers. There isn't a conversion for 3/4 of the DH power (minor, bio, and pryo).

That's a good question! I was about to start a similar thread. I run a Dark Heresy campaign and have dicussed the issue of changing over to Rogue Trader with the players. They really want to start playing it eventually. but they feel that although they have enough XP to begin playing RT, that they just want to get as much out of DH as they can before moving on to RT. And (unfotunately) I agree. There are so many more stories to tell within the scope of DH. Probably after the Haarlock legacy, I will think about the transition. This, of course will be some time from now given FFG's slow release schedule. SO while I craft an epic adventure we are playing some old school D&D. Also, I believe going from acolyte to Rogue trader is'nt something that happens overnight. It's literally something that can take years!

Dark Heresy is very far from dead for us. It's stronger than ever. we're just taking a break.

The integration should be...interesting. I've only read in detail, 2/3 of RT.

Already I'm thinking of abandoning alot of psyker rules from RT and converting it to DH not the other way around.

There is no issue with setting. It's my favorite part of RT.

Again, what I've read of RT is somewhat limited. But so far, I see no real big difficulties that can't be reasonably be overcome in the transition.

DH is dead to us, but we're quite happy to pick its bpnes for our RT gaming.

I actually never had much interest in Dark Heresy - it seemed like it could have been an interesting resource for 40k background, but playing/GMing a group of Inquisitorial Acolytes just wasn't that appealing. Rogue Trader, on the other hand, was too tempting - I mean, space pirates in the 40k universe?! Yes, please! I may pick up Dark Heresy simply to supplement my Rogue Trader books.

So, in short, Dark Heresy may come alive for us BECAUSE of Rogue Trader.

Dark Heresy, as a resource for the setting, is essentially the "Street Level"... one doesn't, of need, have to play acolytes of an inquisitor, but it sure is a good excuse for a party of disparate talents. That said, there is enough to play Sisters of Battle, and to play an all-ecclesiarchy game, and an inqisitorial game, and even an Arbites-only game, and pretty close to enough (excepting commisars) for the more rag-tag of the Imperial Guard.

RT is "Movers and Shakers"... the juniormost characters are NCOs, Ensigns, and significant clerics. No mere apprentices, these are career members of their profession.

I'm really hoping that the Xenos & Space Marines do start with DH level, but provide an option for starting at higher level without requiring it.

On the other hand, we're going to finish out a plot thread in our current game, then start fresh with RT.

My group pretty much abandoned the whole "acolytes of the inquisition" thing off the bat and just became mercenary bounty hunters and regulators. So the move to RT is going to be very natural for us. We are actually going to use them both together and blend them. Until I get a little more familiar with the RT rules I can't be more specific than that.

DH is most definitly not dead for me. I'm in the same boat as many others here, there's still far too much left untouched and untold within it's bounds to ditch it. My players are itching to give RT a run, but we will have to return to DH as one of their character's stories is no where near concluded. He has a definite chance of making it to Interrogator, he seems to have finally grasped what is needed to be an Inquisitor, and is mercilessly marching towards that goal. He's player might be a bit cheated if we don't fallow that to the end to see if he indeed makes it or not. Beyond that, the story being told is no where near complete.

I will definitly be pulling rules from RT for DH, though. I'll be making a Technique tree for the remaining psychic schools in DH and pulling the psychic rules over, though not because of the safer power usage but just because it finally uses the same base mechanics as everything else. I like symmetry in my rules.

I'll also be using Profit Factor, though changing it's name to Influence or Network possibly. It will be a representation of the amount of pooled resources a cell has at their disposal, both from it's members as well as resources their =I= has freed up for them -what ever explanation works for any given situation. It will also double as a network of faceless informants and information gatherers that the cell would have been putting together off-screen as well as the information network their master has given them access to, the networks maintained by the Calixian Conclave that they know about, etc. As I'll be using Profit Factor, I'll also be using the Endevor system, though, again, changing the name to something more investigaty sounding (Investigations, Mysteries, something like that). This will do wonders in getting the characters more active and less reactive as they start actively looking for other heresies beyond the scope of their mission, looking for ways to take heretics down that not only accomplishes their mission objective but also makes them look good, their master look good, secures resources to fund the next investigation without waving a badge around to get the funding, and perhaps places them in the good graces of some important people. They've been doing this to an extent in the past, but since the profit factor gives them a concrete number to look at and measure how much effect their decisions have had as opposed to strictly in-game descriptions and events, they should start being even more self motivated. Hell, since they're now on Fenksworld (home of the 1000 1000 heresies) I will have plenty of opportunities to toss all kinds of seeds and leads on things that don't seem all that right as side Investigations for fun and Influence as they go through their main mission.

I'll also be revamping the origin paths for DH. Beyond that, the travel times given will also be of great use. finally I have some numbers to work with that aren't speed of plot! Might be some other things to port over as well, but those are the big ones.

As the future of the game goes, I have plans to jump back and forth between RT and DH. Two of my players each have their main favorite character in each of the games. Well, we haven't yet played RT, but the groups rogue scum who had recently gotten infected with a halo device has pissed off and out of Imperial space with the help of, as my players say, "those damned worms!" His continuing story (and damnation) will be picked up in RT as he starts to realize and achieve his destiny and either gets his grubby slowly turning alien hands on a warrant of trade or just going full-on pirate captain after working, conning, and probably sleeping his way into the upper reaches of a Syndicate ship. He'll eventually have to decide if he'll go after a Lord Inquisitor to seize the last bit of the legacy left to him as well as the eventual maddening confrontation with the King in Rags and Tatters. The other players will all make RT characters for this bit. Meanwhile, the scums old cell with his new acolyte will eventually be hunting him down as the adept of the group and the one most likely to actually end up wielding his own Inquisitorial Seal has already sworn himself to hunting the scum down no matter where he hides. It should prove to be interesting as their actions have already taken the once simple plot in a direction with very epic potential.

Those are my plans. i don't know how well it'll all work and how well the rules will function as I have only had the RT book for 2 days now. I haven't even hardly ready it, just scanned for juicy bits.

Our DH game was just about to last rank, with Tattered Fates, and one of our Acolytes being of Haarlock bloodline, it gave a great excuse to jump 100 years forward to RT, with the reestablishment of the Haarlock bloodline in the sector and a new Rogue Trader, his son, taking over the family fortunes. There is still a strong tie to the Inquisition with a lot of the NPC's and PC characters still being around thanks to rejuvenate treatments or handing off power to a new generation.

Snidesworth said:

I don't know how you do it? I'm unemployed, and I find that I only have time to run only one game every two weeks. I also read of someone else who runs two games every week. How? Am I over-writing? How do you find the time to prep for two games every week, if that's not all you're doing?

calibur1 said:

Probably are over-writing. My prep time for DH was under 1 hour per session when running published stuff, and under two when not. My other game at the time took even less.

Heck, most of the time, I don't bother "prepping" for sessions. I spend a little time thining about what's happened, and what needs to happen, but I tend towards "sandbox" play; I know what's where, and turn players loose in it, and simply react to what they pursue.

In DH, I had to prep, at least a little. I figured out what they were investigating, and the key encounters they should have.

EG:
A priory of nuns is vacant. Cause not apparent. (Draw brief map.) Actual cause: Purged by the IG local unit.
Encounter: Priory: looted bodies, many shot in apparent combat then moved into cells.
Encounter: Chapel: Bodies, stripped. Killed before being stripped. All wargear and clothing missing
Encounter: Refectorium: Remenants of supper, dropped mid-meal. Kitchens emptied, meals left on tables.
Encounter: Lieutenant: smarmy guard Lt. Not quite right. If searched, has stolen aquilla. No reverence for God-Emperor
Encounter: Behind Guard compound: Prioress raped and sacrificed days before. Marked with signs of Slaneesh.
Encounter: 10 guards, off duty. Attempt to scare away cell. Two have hidden mutations. If questioned thoroughly, slaneeshi devotees.
Encounter: Lt , ecnounter #2. Refuses to discipline any surviving guards. "I Leave them to your mercy" A commisar is present.
Encounter: Find body of comissar, with matching orders. Not same as in LT#2

that's about it. I might dig out stats before hand. The above should take 4-8 hours of play, depending upon players, and how agressive the combat is.

aramis said:

Probably are over-writing. My prep time for DH was under 1 hour per session when running published stuff, and under two when not. My other game at the time took even less.

Heck, most of the time, I don't bother "prepping" for sessions. I spend a little time thining about what's happened, and what needs to happen, but I tend towards "sandbox" play; I know what's where, and turn players loose in it, and simply react to what they pursue. In DH, I had to prep, at least a little. I figured out what they were investigating, and the key encounters they should have

EG:
A priory of nuns is vacant. Cause not apparent. (Draw brief map.) Actual cause: Purged by the IG local unit.
Encounter: Priory: looted bodies, many shot in apparent combat then moved into cells.
Encounter: Chapel: Bodies, stripped. Killed before being stripped. All wargear and clothing missing
Encounter: Refectorium: Remenants of supper, dropped mid-meal. Kitchens emptied, meals left on tables.
Encounter: Lieutenant: smarmy guard Lt. Not quite right. If searched, has stolen aquilla. No reverence for God-Emperor
Encounter: Behind Guard compound: Prioress raped and sacrificed days before. Marked with signs of Slaneesh.
Encounter: 10 guards, off duty. Attempt to scare away cell. Two have hidden mutations. If questioned thoroughly, slaneeshi devotees.
Encounter: Lt , ecnounter #2. Refuses to discipline any surviving guards. "I Leave them to your mercy" A commisar is present.
Encounter: Find body of comissar, with matching orders. Not same as in LT#2

that's about it. I might dig out stats before hand. The above should take 4-8 hours of play, depending upon players, and how agressive the combat is.

Wow. I reckon every GM dose tings differently. I'm in the slower camp of GM's.

I employ the "sandbox" (when the hell did this become the term for open ending settings anyway?) approach as well but it takes me, on average, about 10-20 hours of work to get a story ready for play from a cold start in a new setting, though that play can last through 3-4 sessions. However, it seems a i put a hell of a lot more work into the setting and stage (which is the biggest consumer of time) trying to make it unique and interesting, figuring out all the hows and why's of the things the characters are most likely to encounter, then comes the long nights of making the NPC's human, figuring out what their goals are, why their goals are that, how they will achieve those goals, how those goals might impact the stage I spent last week setting up, etc.

In then end, however, i find the more work put into a session, the better it is. So, to calibur1, you might not be doing anything wrong. A session every other week is the best I can manage on the average (though I practically have two jobs, but this is offset by the fact that I have absolutely no life at all). I've played under a GM that took forever to get a story together, but when he did, it was almost art and another who subscribed to the brief notes on a single piece of paper scribbled down an hour before game approach -his games were, at best, a decent and somewhat entertaining waist of time. The fast apporach always had the setting and NPCs come off, in game, as feeling terribly generic and uninteresting, byut maybe that's just me or the GM I played under who favored that approach. I believe you get out of something what you put in it, but then again, that just might be my excuse for being so damned slow at everything I do.

EDIT: oh for **** sake, what the hell forum!? What the hell? I'll be damned if the forum software and code for this train wreck isn't the one of the worst I've come across. How can it mess up quotes? Just from simple user typing? It's not rocket science or what ever science is currently on the cutting edge of what-ever.

Graver said:

You can edit your posts?

But yeah, the forum software stinks.

Sandbox has been a term around since the early 70's. It also comes from wargaming; the uber open-end wargamers actually played minis games in sandboxes.

There are many GMing styles. I know that I, as a player, hated the heavy-prep runs-on-rails adventures many of my friends tried to run. I had more fun in the semi-prepped sandbox games. And that's pretty much how I run.

As a GM, 0-15 hours of prep pre-campaign, and 30-90 min a session. I've run as many as 3 campaigns at a time. But then, I've been GMing almost constantly since 1984. My preference is to have the campaign revolve around the players and their characters.

Edit: Hmm I guess there's a time limit upon it.

LEGION3000 said:

Yeah, I don't know that most of our guys were really Inquisition material...

With Victus managing his business concerns, Stan and Jinx banging mutant hookers, and most of the other characters being little more than hired muscle, the Rogue Trader thing should fit as alot better.

I would say that pretty much any situation we encountered as acolytes, we could still encounter as a Rogue Trader crew.

Initially, the "because the Inquisitor said so," motivation was awesome, but its gotten a little stale.

calibur1 said:

One game is run via IRC, the other one is done on a message board. Play by post is very, very slow so I'm only really writing for one game. As for my prepration, it varies between hours of frenzied typing and quickly writing something up a few hours before the session.