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2015 Worlds Results
ForceSensitive, Edward Horne finished 43. Michael Jones apparently didn't have a good start (not sure what he finished).
My 'money' is on Paul if for no other reason that he's flying basically the same list I came up with for a TFA core set release tournament and thought 'this seems pretty good,' and it turned out to be pretty good for me, and I've been using in tournaments since. Makes me feel like I know what I'm doing.
My prediction: Kinetic Operator's 3K list takes it all.
I'm not a fan of the Heaver list, I personally don't like just fitting in an extra ship, just because I've got the points.
He is well on his way to his third world championship, I'm not saying he's wrong. It's not a list that appeals to me though.
Hoffman's list I like, fast and furious flying.
Bandits can punch way above their weight class. Get ignored in most lists and their blocking can be huge. More importantly, that random Bandito ends up range 1 and drops three red dice more often than you would expect. The twitch match-up with Miranda and friends against a Crack Squadron, it was the Z-95's that did most of the damage.
Everybody gotta fly what they enjoy flying but don't discount the effect of that extra little shippy.
I absolutely love looking through a list with Spanish upgrade names.
Advanced Targeting Computer is the best.
Drew Bishop is Whisper VI, SJ, ACD, Intel, Howl VI, Hull, x3 Academy TIEs!
TLT ruins it for me frankly. Love the rest. But when I just sit and watch my opponent roll dice and negate the need for me to even bother, I consider that anti-interactive and un-fun. Or when I do it to him for that matter
But is that due to the TLT, or is it because the players are unimaginative and unwilling to come up with lists that are a little bit more high risk, but a lot more fun to play?
The people who lack imagination see TLT and just spam it. The smart players put it on K-Wings with Tacticians and in the end look better.
spam it on Ys, specifically
because comparing Ys to Ks in the stat department is like comparing a body-builder to a slug, making it the easier; more attractive choice (like the dark side). TLT Ys are exactly why I personally havn't bothered with TLT Ks outside of fun lists and Miranda, fool that I am
then again, Paul's rocking the BTL-A4 TLT, which isn't really a TLT as much as it is R3-a2, god of stress, working through his preferred instrument
Edited by ficklegreendiceThat Stress beast is an entirely different story! I love that ship, so evil.
Paul looked at it and thought 'what if a double-tap...was a triple-tap?'
Yeah the commentators have said there's a bunch of TLT Y spam lists, but none did well. Once again it comes down to picking the right stuff AND flying it well. That's what I like about this game, there is no point and click winning list. Even Fat Falcons can be flown badly and lose to an all-forward arc list being flown like a boss.
The people who lack imagination see TLT and just spam it. The smart players put it on K-Wings with Tacticians and in the end look better.
That, but also the attitude of "this is great, this works, I'll copy this".
And it's not just TLT, there's always going to be a large group of players to whom winning is so important they'd rather play a dull game.
That style of play won't get you far in tournaments like this though.
.
because comparing Ys to Ks in the stat department is like comparing a body-builder to a slug, making it the easier; more attractive choice (like the dark side)
inexperience leads to frustration
frustration leads to netlisting
netlisting leads to the Dark Side...
The BTLT is different, even without the stress, it takes skill to point an Y-Wing in the right direction.
The people who lack imagination see TLT and just spam it. The smart players put it on K-Wings with Tacticians and in the end look better.
That, but also the attitude of "this is great, this works, I'll copy this".
And it's not just TLT, there's always going to be a large group of players to whom winning is so important they'd rather play a dull game.
That style of play won't get you far in tournaments like this though.
because comparing Ys to Ks in the stat department is like comparing a body-builder to a slug, making it the easier; more attractive choice (like the dark side)
inexperience leads to frustration
frustration leads to netlisting
netlisting leads to the Dark Side...
I wouldn't call netlisting entirely bad. I enjoyed my time where I blatantly copied this list: http://teamcovenant.com/sablegryphon/2014/11/10/victory-is-mined-2014-worlds-list-recap/ In fact those games where among those I enjoyed the most in all of my time playing X-Wing - making people say "TIE Bombers seem a bit OP" might have had something to do with that!
Edited by Admiral DeathrainNetlists are good, great even.
They give you something solid to fly, so you can learn what is good, and more importantly, why it is good.
But you then need to start tweaking them, adjusting for local meta, tricks you like, adding extra dimensions so your list can leverage something against an opponent who's list is a bit of a harder counter to yours.
There are people who never get to the second part, but that's not the fault of netlists.
Drew Bishop is Whisper VI, SJ, ACD, Intel, Howl VI, Hull, x3 Academy TIEs!
Drew is a local here in the San Francisco bay area and I've seen that list in action. Hard to beat and he knows how to play it well. He was giving updates on Facebook during the tournament. He smoked 2 Vader/Fel/Palpatine lists but lost to the Triple K's, going 6-2 on the day.
Edited by zathras23
Playing good lists makes games dull?
The people who lack imagination see TLT and just spam it. The smart players put it on K-Wings with Tacticians and in the end look better.
That, but also the attitude of "this is great, this works, I'll copy this".
And it's not just TLT, there's always going to be a large group of players to whom winning is so important they'd rather play a dull game.
That style of play won't get you far in tournaments like this though.
To me, if it's just a list you slavishly copied? Yes.
If it works for you, go ahead, I personally do not like looking at a list someone else designed, buying the required components and calling it a day.
Didn't like it when it was with MtG, still don't like it.
What really soured me on it was the attitude you often get of people feeling superior because they are using what a champion designed against an original.
The people who lack imagination see TLT and just spam it. The smart players put it on K-Wings with Tacticians and in the end look better.
That, but also the attitude of "this is great, this works, I'll copy this".
And it's not just TLT, there's always going to be a large group of players to whom winning is so important they'd rather play a dull game.
That style of play won't get you far in tournaments like this though.
That's all a matter of perspective. Just because you believe something is dull doesn't mean others do. Also, if these players think "winning is so important" then I imagine they would have theory crafted many lists to test. A player finding a list online and playing it because they think it fits their style of play isn't something to despise.
EDIT: I wanted to add a bit after you mentioned mtg. Pros that build decks do extensive testing to make sure they are getting value out of every card and ensuring a certain amount of consistency. If a magic player doesn't have the time to analyze the meta and play test new cards then why shouldn't they look at what the pros have done. Its a lot of work to solve the meta game in magic and if you want to play competitively you solve it yourself or look to others.
Magic has a large casual following who just show up for pre-releases to get their hands on some new cards but most of the people that play consistently are fairly competitive. If you go to an starcitygames. com event, there are players who will call a judge for any little thing to get an edge. Is that how you want to play magic? Probably not, but you have to respect the fact that they have a different perspective and would rather play cut throat. Also if you don't like competitive magic but still want to play the game I would suggest an edh league, super fun with a point system based on what you do during the game.
Edited by ClaarbarPlaying good lists makes games dull?The people who lack imagination see TLT and just spam it. The smart players put it on K-Wings with Tacticians and in the end look better.
That, but also the attitude of "this is great, this works, I'll copy this".
And it's not just TLT, there's always going to be a large group of players to whom winning is so important they'd rather play a dull game.
That style of play won't get you far in tournaments like this though.
To me, if it's just a list you slavishly copied? Yes.
If it works for you, go ahead, I personally do not like looking at a list someone else designed, buying the required components and calling it a day.
Didn't like it when it was with MtG, still don't like it.
What really soured me on it was the attitude you often get of people feeling superior because they are using what a champion designed against an original.
I wouldn't call netlisting entirely bad. I enjoyed my time where I blatantly copied this list: http://teamcovenant.com/sablegryphon/2014/11/10/victory-is-mined-2014-worlds-list-recap/ In fact those games where among those I enjoyed the most in all of my time playing X-Wing - making people say "TIE Bombers seem a bit OP" might have had something to do with that!because comparing Ys to Ks in the stat department is like comparing a body-builder to a slug, making it the easier; more attractive choice (like the dark side)
inexperience leads to frustration
frustration leads to netlisting
netlisting leads to the Dark Side...
I've also net decked sirta before, but my burgeoning insecurity won't let me fly again that doesn't have at least one "fickle was here" stamp on it
Regarding bombers, I stole heychadwick's 4 homing + sesmics + extras scimitar 4-ship but I swapped one out for Omega Leader just to have a "OC; DO NOT STEAL" label
and also because Omega "el presidente" is disgusting, but that's neither here nor there
Point is, nothing is going to be truly original as long as limitations exist, so appropriate away
Netdecked me own post
While I really love these list discussions, I think we as players should put more emphasis on how the players *fly* them. I really wish we could have seen the Paul vs Aaron last game yesterday, REALLY curious what exactly he did to take down that 3K list! It looked near-unbeatable in the round before when it was broadcast.