this game has just to many nerds IT-guys in it's customer base.. everybody who's guilty raise their hands! *waits for someone to be the first to admit, before raising his hands with a guilty look, too* ;-)

I'm not sure if programmers are part of IT or not, or if some of them would be happy to be labelled IT. I guess it depends how your organisation is setup and what the programmer is doing. If working on internal systems like stock control for the department store, or at Google making sure everyone's laptop works, sure, that's IT. If code is your main product and you're working on that (e.g. Google search) that's not really IT. *Shrug* I guess no-one outside the industry really cares. :-)

Only 15 Twin Laser Turrets in the top 16? I am amazed.

Only one list in the top 4 had TLT. There was one card that was shared by all top 4 lists. I'll leave it to you to work out which! :-)

this game has just to many nerds IT-guys in it's customer base.. everybody who's guilty raise their hands! *waits for someone to be the first to admit, before raising his hands with a guilty look, too* ;-)

I'm not sure if programmers are part of IT or not, or if some of them would be happy to be labelled IT. I guess it depends how your organisation is setup and what the programmer is doing. If working on internal systems like stock control for the department store, or at Google making sure everyone's laptop works, sure, that's IT. If code is your main product and you're working on that (e.g. Google search) that's not really IT. *Shrug* I guess no-one outside the industry really cares. :-)

Only 15 Twin Laser Turrets in the top 16? I am amazed.

Only one list in the top 4 had TLT. There was one card that was shared by all top 4 lists. I'll leave it to you to work out which! :-)

..that's a raised hand if I ever saw one! ;P

the card in question surely must have been expose. such a good .. oh, wait.

(don't feed the trolls tlt-doomsayers; they are convinced the world has already ended, don't tell them otherwise )

Almost anything winning now is awesome. Imperial? Cool. Scum TLT? Cool! Paul Heaver with Fat Han a 3rd time in a row? Kinda cool too. At least, I think if Heaver wins a 3rd time, it will be awesome.

I had a feeling. =P pg1. =)

Only 15 Twin Laser Turrets in the top 16? I am amazed.

Only one list in the top 4 had TLT. There was one card that was shared by all top 4 lists. I'll leave it to you to work out which! :-)

Ooh I know what it is I know what it is! But I won't spoil it for the next guy...

NERDS!!!!!!!

Yeah it's not surprising that people who code for a living have the unique insight into creating winning lists and know how to effectively fly them in multiple match-ups. Disposable income too.

Too bad I dropped out of computer science 20 years ago, or 1000 years ago if you consider how much things have changed in that area since then.

this game has just to many nerds IT-guys in it's customer base.. everybody who's guilty raise their hands! *waits for someone to be the first to admit, before raising his hands with a guilty look, too* ;-)

IT is such a wide field, I work in IT but couldn't engineer a piece of software if my life depended on it.

Not sure if it was noted anywhere in the thread as I may have missed it, but the 6-2 ship lists to make the cut were all 3+ship lists including a swarm. I think the MoV change did its job.

Only 15 Twin Laser Turrets in the top 16? I am amazed.

You know the first thing is that Autothrusters is a pretty good counter to them on most ships.

I always said that TLT is not OP. it's very powerful and you have to soft counter it at least, but its nothing like a Phantom where it is hard counter or bust.

I think at the level of play we saw at worlds, it is safe to say that these pilots know how to counter TLTs in their lists and play. And even i have beaten it at tournaments. So if we assume that i am not on the same level as the top 8, i think it is safe to say that you dont need to be a genius to beat TLT, but being one makes it easier.

Of course the dice rolls play a major part. It would have been entirely possible for Nathan to win vs Paul if he didnt totally blank out on corran. I would even have declared him a favorite in this matchup as he had a hard counter list to TLTs. 2 Autothrusters, 2 regenerating ships, 2 ships with high PS. Thats as hard as it gets for TLT.

As Paul stated the problem was the stressbot. Nathan could just not go in with Corran and see 3 Stress get dumped on him. It was unlucky that he blanked out but that was probably also due to Corran not being able to maneuver as he should.

What strikesme more is that we don't see a single B-Wing in the top 8. I think not even in the top 16. After all it was the go-to ship for any rebel build not too long ago. So there is a big shift towards the Y-Wing in the 20+ point range.

The B-Wings strength always was reliability, a TLT Y-Wing is more reliable because of the turret. People might also be tired of flying them ever since wave 3.

also, I don't have to see a b-wing on every table. It is still a super-efficient piece of plastic, and has a wide open potential for the future (upgrade slots for almost everything!).

I just hope the ywing-tlt doesn't just replace it in many lists, now. the game loses much of it's appeal to me when your flying against "mainly turrets" - or with. especially with the r3 tlt.

super-especially with the r3a2btltnt (stresshog is so much easier..). for many lists, the overall tactic is pretty much set in stone once you spot that thing in a list.. I like my games more open

Well the TLT-Stresshog is definitly not going to be a turret (or not going to be all that good). It is fantastic in a meta full of aces, but since it will only disrupt one ship per turn the utility versus full swarms is limited, especially if all these shoot first. The Obsidian swarm will be a thing in the hands of someone highly resistant to player fatigue (fear the time someone like that emerges!) once more. Maybe the Assault Carrier is even going to add something to that, can't wait to see that thing hit the shelves, first on release epic purchase for me.

The B-Wings strength always was reliability, a TLT Y-Wing is more reliable because of the turret. People might also be tired of flying them ever since wave 3.

What strikesme more is that we don't see a single B-Wing in the top 8. I think not even in the top 16. After all it was the go-to ship for any rebel build not too long ago. So there is a big shift towards the Y-Wing in the 20+ point range.

The B-Wings strength always was reliability, a TLT Y-Wing is more reliable because of the turret. People might also be tired of flying them ever since wave 3.

Considering we saw two tie swarm variants, I don't think "tired of flying them" is really the issue.

What strikesme more is that we don't see a single B-Wing in the top 8. I think not even in the top 16. After all it was the go-to ship for any rebel build not too long ago. So there is a big shift towards the Y-Wing in the 20+ point range.

I think it's a couple of things, like e fact that there are aces that can outfly them, but mostly it's that a ship's statline efficiency isn't enough anymore. Pilot abilities and ships that can carry the right upgrade cards are more important at this stage in the game.

B-Wings have fantastic upgrade options, especially Tacticians. Panic Attack is good, if someone finds a reasonable way to include the TLT-Stresshog I see it back in the meta with full force. But that is a problem, the one point is hard to find. Zeb with Tactician might be the sollution, depending on price.

The B-Wings strength always was reliability, a TLT Y-Wing is more reliable because of the turret. People might also be tired of flying them ever since wave 3.

Considering we saw two tie swarm variants, I don't think "tired of flying them" is really the issue.

What strikesme more is that we don't see a single B-Wing in the top 8. I think not even in the top 16. After all it was the go-to ship for any rebel build not too long ago. So there is a big shift towards the Y-Wing in the 20+ point range.

I think it's a couple of things, like e fact that there are aces that can outfly them, but mostly it's that a ship's statline efficiency isn't enough anymore. Pilot abilities and ships that can carry the right upgrade cards are more important at this stage in the game.

B-Wings have fantastic upgrade options, especially Tacticians. Panic Attack is good, if someone finds a reasonable way to include the TLT-Stresshog I see it back in the meta with full force. But that is a problem, the one point is hard to find. Zeb with Tactician might be the sollution, depending on price.

WIth those 24 points, you can get another TLT Y or a B with FCS, or 2 Bandits, all pretty solid choices.

Back to my point, though, I agree the B-Wing has access to a good variety of options, it's just that those options aren't as good right now as others. FCS and the traditional"Panic Attack" are much better in a meta that featured a low number of ships. Panic Attack is still a good list, but I think some of its success at World's last year, besides being a great meta call, was that it was a bit of a surprise.

The TLT Y is not "more reliable", it is s turret that isn't nearly as hampered by maneuverable ships as the stiff B. If you don't protect them, though, controlling range becomes difficult and you'll start wishing for a 3 dice primary.

In fact, TLT Ys make a great compliment to the sturdy, punchy gunships and Bs can protect your vulnerable turrets

You can run the TL-BTLa4 god of stress hog with an r4-d6 TLT and two FCS Bs for a punchy, flexible list

I still like the 2 Blue, TLT Y-wing, TLT HWK, Z-95 squad.

Or whatever that mix of stuff was.

EDIT: Found it. Blue w/Tactician, Stresshog, no title, TLT HWK, 2 Z-95s.

Wow. This thread is really long.

Did the top 16 lists get posted in it somewhere?

Yes, the second post.

Wow. This thread is really long.

Did the top 16 lists get posted in it somewhere?

yes, link to the lists is -somewhere- at the beginning of the thread, I think.. oh and on novas facebook, if I remember correctly.

So I just did a quick analysis of the top 16 lists, and all but one list had one or more of the following:

1) PS9 or higher Ace(s)

2) Multiple (2+) TLT's

3) A Ship with regen (several with 2)

Which is interesting, as currently my best list for each faction do not have any of those qualities. But I also tend to be anti-meta with my lists.

Top 32 Meta Breakdown

Listed by order of appearance.

(minimum wave for core fundamentals) [placements] description

• (wave 7) [1, 9] Rebel Ace + TLTs
• (wave 7) [2, 11] Rebel Aces
• (wave 7) [3] BroBots (crack+stim)
• (wave 7) [4, 6] Palpatine + 2 Aces
• (wave 7) [5] TLT Spam + Control
• (wave 7) [7, 15] TLT Spam
• (wave 5) [8, 12] Dash/Corran
• (wave 5) [10] RAC/Whisper
• (wave 1) [13] TIE Swarm
• (wave 4) [14] Whisper + Miniswarm
• (wave 7) [16] Imperial Aces
• (wave 4) [19] Rebel Swarm
• (wave 6) [20] BroBots
• (wave 7) [27] Crackshot TIE Swarm

Unknown squads:

• 17 - Palpatine Shuttle + Vader + Fel (wave 7)
• 18
• 21
• 22
• 23
• 24 - 4x TLT Thugs w/unhinged astromech (wave 7)
• 25
• 26
• 28
• 29
• 30
• 31
• 32

poor Bs are getting pushed out... but with the new MOV fix, 4BZ could be good again.

It drops its worst con: Not being about to keep up. Now you only ahve to do 1/2 health to the turret, instead of all of it.

I tell you now good sirs: PLAY B WINGS AGAIN

poor Bs are getting pushed out... but with the new MOV fix, 4BZ could be good again.

It drops its worst con: Not being about to keep up. Now you only ahve to do 1/2 health to the turret, instead of all of it.

I tell you now good sirs: PLAY B WINGS AGAIN

The thing to remember, with the amount of ships available and the sheer diversity we are seeing, just because the B didn't show up in the top 16 of a 300 player tournament, doesn't mean it isn't good. I mean, the Blue, Gold, HWK, and 2 Z squad won Nova open. Hell, Farlander seems like a good choice to fight the stress hog.