Gotta say I take offense to the notion that Han can be uttered in the same category as TLTs
Sure, they're both technically turrets, but SWTs have the decency of allowing you to dodge them. PWTs can burn in gaming sins hell
The presentation of the data seems to imply a lateral move when it is, instead, sweet sweet progress
That, my friend, is very much a matter of opinion.
No need for deadeye, it has the same header as Prockets. Blount is an option, but I think really anyone can carry it.
Look at that list. When you have several opportunities to hit with Tracers, they become a lot more reliable. The remaining ships then shoot with 4 fully modified dice that do not care about evade tokens.
Oh yeah, forgot that part. I remembered that you kept what was needed but forgot it was a focus... even better for Blount then.
Thing is though, it is still a 3 dice with focus, so it will be efficient on low agility ship like Falcon or the like, but against a high agility ship, not so much. At least it's range 1-3, so there's that.... and only worth 1 point... I don't know, I'm not convince about it as being really helpful, I already have no problem with ordnance, but I could be wrong. Definetly worth it on Blount though, maybe with veteran instinct so he can shoot it even earlier before dying.
Fixed that for ya.30 for jukeInquisitor
I can see that too. I keep thinking you need to spend the token and you don't. I like VI for a PS 10 Ace under 30. Honestly, I like that you have options with him but Juke + title seems like a no brained unless you need PS or 3 actions. Now if only there was a way to pass TLs...
I think the most damning stat juggler posted was the number of different pilot cards used this year versus other years. It was one stat I was actually curious about for awhile as I thought it might be low, and this confirms it.
As much as people want to say the meta is very diverse, and in some ways it is, overall it really isn't when you only have 16% of the pilot cards represented in the top 32 (though might go up once the missing 3 players are added).
Also sad to see not a single PS5 ship in the top 32, as my favorite ship ATM is the good ol' mando merc.
I think the most damning stat juggler posted was the number of different pilot cards used this year versus other years. It was one stat I was actually curious about for awhile as I thought it might be low, and this confirms it.
As much as people want to say the meta is very diverse, and in some ways it is, overall it really isn't when you only have 16% of the pilot cards represented in the top 32 (though might go up once the missing 3 players are added).
Also sad to see not a single PS5 ship in the top 32, as my favorite ship ATM is the good ol' mando merc.
As the game gets more and more pilots, the number of pilot representation will drop. That 16% this year is not the same if it was 16% last year. I mean, his data even points out how many pilots were added in the last year. The number of pilots nearly doubled. In a 100 pts, there will always be a limit in the number of ships and pilots you could include in one squad. What happens when we are looking at 200+ pilots? There are some hard limits on that statistic.
Also, individual ship/pilot usage data is interesting. But worthless in the greater context of the meta. You have to look at the squads, which is the sum of all ships and upgrades.
While diversity is much more apparent then last year. I think there should be concern that turrets are still dominating so much that it makes a specific anti turret upgrade card if autothrusters the most popular upgrade. I'm not sure if that's really progress or just a well placed bandaid. I'm ok with the idea of upgrades making certain generics viable. Cards like palpatine crackshot are fine but I think autothrusters just sorts masks a bigger issue. This is also the main reason I feel the t-70 and tie fo should not seperate ships but title upgrades which they really should have been. This would of made most xwings relevant again and made tie/ln more interesting.
Once again, I feel it is important to point out that experiences with one shot Fels at Range 3 beg to differ on the importance of Autothrusters as an upgrade. And I would question you implication of turret's "dominating". He is clearly using Turret upgrades as part of the measure. Which, is a different story than last year.
Also sad to see not a single PS5 ship in the top 32, as my favorite ship ATM is the good ol' mando merc.
That's more a fault of the Pilot Skill system than anything else. Anything in the PS5-7 bracket doesn't have much of a reason to exist. It's overkill (and therefore wasted points) against grunt units at PS1-4, while totally useless (and therefore wasted points) against anything PS8+. They either need an utterly insane pilot ability (ie. Dash/88s) or some other mitigating factor (ie. Shadows triggering ACD before any grunt unit) to be of any use.
While diversity is much more apparent then last year. I think there should be concern that turrets are still dominating so much that it makes a specific anti turret upgrade card if autothrusters the most popular upgrade. I'm not sure if that's really progress or just a well placed bandaid. I'm ok with the idea of upgrades making certain generics viable. Cards like palpatine crackshot are fine but I think autothrusters just sorts masks a bigger issue. This is also the main reason I feel the t-70 and tie fo should not seperate ships but title upgrades which they really should have been. This would of made most xwings relevant again and made tie/ln more interesting.
But isn't the prevalence of Autothrusters also not due to the fact that it's a cheap upgrade in a nearly uncontested slot? Interceptors can get two mods, IG88s don't need anything else, nor do A-Wings.
I think the most damning stat juggler posted was the number of different pilot cards used this year versus other years. It was one stat I was actually curious about for awhile as I thought it might be low, and this confirms it.
As much as people want to say the meta is very diverse, and in some ways it is, overall it really isn't when you only have 16% of the pilot cards represented in the top 32 (though might go up once the missing 3 players are added).
Also sad to see not a single PS5 ship in the top 32, as my favorite ship ATM is the good ol' mando merc.
While diversity is much more apparent then last year. I think there should be concern that turrets are still dominating so much that it makes a specific anti turret upgrade card if autothrusters the most popular upgrade. I'm not sure if that's really progress or just a well placed bandaid. I'm ok with the idea of upgrades making certain generics viable. Cards like palpatine crackshot are fine but I think autothrusters just sorts masks a bigger issue. This is also the main reason I feel the t-70 and tie fo should not seperate ships but title upgrades which they really should have been. This would of made most xwings relevant again and made tie/ln more interesting.
Once again, I feel it is important to point out that experiences with one shot Fels at Range 3 beg to differ on the importance of Autothrusters as an upgrade. And I would question you implication of turret's "dominating". He is clearly using Turret upgrades as part of the measure. Which, is a different story than last year.
While your antecdotal experience with fel is commendable. I am going by the numbers MJ provided showing both the overall use of turrets and the use of specific upgrades both of which are common stats from last year. The only different story from last year is that TLT more popular then prior year secondary turrets, however his stats from last year did include a break down of all turrets and PWT. This is why Mj himself pointed out turrets are just as popular this year as last year. The only real difference now is a specific anti turret upgrade is now also the most used upgrade of all. This is still bad.
But isn't the prevalence of Autothrusters also not due to the fact that it's a cheap upgrade in a nearly uncontested slot? Interceptors can get two mods, IG88s don't need anything else, nor do A-Wings.While diversity is much more apparent then last year. I think there should be concern that turrets are still dominating so much that it makes a specific anti turret upgrade card if autothrusters the most popular upgrade. I'm not sure if that's really progress or just a well placed bandaid. I'm ok with the idea of upgrades making certain generics viable. Cards like palpatine crackshot are fine but I think autothrusters just sorts masks a bigger issue. This is also the main reason I feel the t-70 and tie fo should not seperate ships but title upgrades which they really should have been. This would of made most xwings relevant again and made tie/ln more interesting.
Ask yourself how much more popular would all the t-65 pilots be if they could pay a 3 points for a title that gave them. Boost, +1 shield, tech upgrade and gave speed 3 talon roll maneuvers. And of those four changes which would have the biggest impact in the current meta? Ffs wedge and Luke would be almost auto includes again.
Edited by GungoI don't think it's a turret vs anti-turret meta, necessarily. It's just that there are some really awesome ships that can take Autothrusters, which are cheap. They're anti-turret, only because they're pretty solid against everything.
Yeah, autothrusters are great even when not playing against turrets. They help out a lot during the initial approach where arc-dodging ships are most vulnerable.
Agreed. Autothrusters are generally good upgrades no matter what you're facing, on the ships that can take them.
When I play Jake I'll always put autothrusters on him unless there is no way to free up 2 points for it.
Max Pilot Skill per Squad
2013 2014 2015Average 6.25 8.00 6.61------ ----- Max PS breakdown ----- ------1 6.25% 0.00% 0.00%2 12.50% 12.50% 22.58%3 6.25% 0.00% 3.23%4 0.00% 0.00% 6.45%5 12.50% 6.25% 0.00%6 6.25% 0.00% 9.68%7 0.00% 0.00% 0.00%8 31.25% 25.00% 25.81%9 25.00% 31.25% 9.68%10 0.00% 12.50% 19.35%11 0.00% 12.50% 3.23%
I added a new table for maximum PS per squad.
I also updated the numbers for everything else now that we have only 1 unknown squad remaining for Worlds 2015.
(I assume that the lone Kihraxz had glitterstim since the squad was 98 points.)
[edit: it was Feedback Array - tweaks the "vanilla generic" metric slightly.]
Y-wing points spent (including both Rebels and Scum) for 2015 was 29.28%. The only higher number for a single ship was 2013 TIE Fighters clocking in at 33.75%. Welcome to the new meta.
Edited by MajorJuggler
It brings a tear to my eye, knowing at any other time one would've been laughed off the forums for suggesting Y-wings could ever be meta
the time is here, chaps. enjoy it!
TLTs are good enough to take Y-wings from basically nowhere to 30% of the ship points.
Hmmm.....
Agreed. Autothrusters are generally good upgrades no matter what you're facing, on the ships that can take them.
When I play Jake I'll always put autothrusters on him unless there is no way to free up 2 points for it.
Turret or not, Autothrusters is one of the best upgrade in the game.
Staying at range 3 (or dodging arc at range 1) was already my tactic with Interceptors, so Autothrusters is a no brainer for me. It also help PtL A-Wing to set the Proton Rocket shot. First engagement at range 3, take your TL and a Focus, stay alive thanks to range bonus, focus and Autothrusters, then move in for the kill next round.
I have to admit, when I can take it, it's hard for me not to.
TLTs are good enough to take Y-wings from basically nowhere to 30% of the ship points.
That's not really true. TLT's and the BTL title have done a lot to make Y-Wings the workhorse ship it always should of been.
You know whats the worst thing about this worlds results? When I play the Stresshog now people will look at me like a copycat, even though I already ran it since TLT came out!
You know whats the worst thing about this worlds results? When I play the Stresshog now people will look at me like a copycat, even though I already ran it since TLT came out!
no worries
everyone
knew about the TLT + BTL-a4 + r3-a2 interaction
before
it ever saw play
just don't copy the rest of the list
Edited by ficklegreendice
You know whats the worst thing about this worlds results? When I play the Stresshog now people will look at me like a copycat, even though I already ran it since TLT came out!
no worries
everyone knew about the TLT + BTL-a4 + r3-a2 interaction before it ever saw play
just don't copy the rest of the list
To be fair, when building Rebel lists I am having a very hard time not coming up with something that looks like a hybrid of Paul or Aaron's list. BTL-A4 + TLT + R3-A2 is to Rebels as Soontir Fel is to Imperials: both are very hard not to take in a list. I was talking to Aaron after, and he was even thinking that his 3K could potentially be improved by dropping a K for the stresshog.
To be fair, when building Rebel lists I am having a very hard time not coming up with something that looks like a hybrid of Paul or Aaron's list. BTL-A4 + TLT + R3-A2 is to Rebels as Soontir Fel is to Imperials: both are very hard not to take in a list.
This is so true! I brought a Poe + Miranda build to game night and my opponent saw Poe and said "Oh you're running Paul Heaver's build"... deflating haha
To be fair, when building Rebel lists I am having a very hard time not coming up with something that looks like a hybrid of Paul or Aaron's list. BTL-A4 + TLT + R3-A2 is to Rebels as Soontir Fel is to Imperials: both are very hard not to take in a list.
This is so true! I brought a Poe + Miranda build to game night and my opponent saw Poe and said "Oh you're running Paul Heaver's build"... deflating haha
As always Paul figures out the perfect build for Worlds!
To be fair, when building Rebel lists I am having a very hard time not coming up with something that looks like a hybrid of Paul or Aaron's list. BTL-A4 + TLT + R3-A2 is to Rebels as Soontir Fel is to Imperials: both are very hard not to take in a list.
This is so true! I brought a Poe + Miranda build to game night and my opponent saw Poe and said "Oh you're running Paul Heaver's build"... deflating haha
I was looking to play with some new toys and grabbed my T70 and K, needed to fill the last points and was deciding between a Tactician B-Wing or a Y-Wing; went with the latter. It's very easy to fall into a similar build at the moment; just because of the new shinies.