Nonetheless it is a pretty drastic shift. Last year nearly every rebel list flew B-Wings if it was not Turret/Ace. And now, not a single one too 16. Remember when people where whining about it being too good value and the reason no one played X-Wings? Well i guess the same people are now bickering about the Y-Wing TLTs...

I am not sad about it but to see a real staple of many rebel lists just gone this year is just a remarkable observation.

In fact what is it that makes people prefer the Y over the B in this meta at the moment, that's the question.

More reliable damage in a much larger area.

poor Bs are getting pushed out... but with the new MOV fix, 4BZ could be good again.

It drops its worst con: Not being about to keep up. Now you only ahve to do 1/2 health to the turret, instead of all of it.

I tell you now good sirs: PLAY B WINGS AGAIN

The thing to remember, with the amount of ships available and the sheer diversity we are seeing, just because the B didn't show up in the top 16 of a 300 player tournament, doesn't mean it isn't good. I mean, the Blue, Gold, HWK, and 2 Z squad won Nova open. Hell, Farlander seems like a good choice to fight the stress hog.

Bs are just as good as before.There is nothing wrong with them, they're still one of the most efficient ships.

TLT ys are now just better anywhere but in R1 of the front arc, which is a tiny area compared to 360* everywhere else.

The meta will always shift to 'better' .

Ohh, I didn't see that Crackshot+Glitterstim IGA&B made Top 4!

That essentially means I made Top 4, since I would've flown that list if I could've made it.

And we even share the same first name.

I feel slightly empowered

Ohh, I didn't see that Crackshot+Glitterstim IGA&B made Top 4!

That essentially means I made Top 4, since I would've flown that list if I could've made it.

And we even share the same first name.

I feel slightly empowered

dear FFG, phild0 is empowered overpowered, says so himself! pls nerf. 'kaythankyoubyebye

poor Bs are getting pushed out... but with the new MOV fix, 4BZ could be good again.

It drops its worst con: Not being about to keep up. Now you only ahve to do 1/2 health to the turret, instead of all of it.

I tell you now good sirs: PLAY B WINGS AGAIN

The thing to remember, with the amount of ships available and the sheer diversity we are seeing, just because the B didn't show up in the top 16 of a 300 player tournament, doesn't mean it isn't good. I mean, the Blue, Gold, HWK, and 2 Z squad won Nova open. Hell, Farlander seems like a good choice to fight the stress hog.

Bs are just as good as before.There is nothing wrong with them, they're still one of the most efficient ships.

TLT ys are now just better anywhere but in R1 of the front arc, which is a tiny area compared to 360* everywhere else.

The meta will always shift to 'better' .

Well the TLT-Stresshog is definitly not going to be a turret (or not going to be all that good). It is fantastic in a meta full of aces, but since it will only disrupt one ship per turn the utility versus full swarms is limited, especially if all these shoot first. The Obsidian swarm will be a thing in the hands of someone highly resistant to player fatigue (fear the time someone like that emerges!) once more. Maybe the Assault Carrier is even going to add something to that, can't wait to see that thing hit the shelves, first on release epic purchase for me.

Just wanted to clarify that the Stresshog can actually stress two ships per turn: One with the primary and one with the TLT. The BTL title does not force you to target the same ship.

PS is still an issue going against a PS3 swarm, but if you get to shoot, you can potentially control two ship per turn. But either way, he's only 1 more point than Biggs and will do the same job, so I don't think you can go wrong taking it into your team.... And if we see it around a lot, I think we will start to see more Tycho... he just laugh at it.

Well the TLT-Stresshog is definitly not going to be a turret (or not going to be all that good). It is fantastic in a meta full of aces, but since it will only disrupt one ship per turn the utility versus full swarms is limited, especially if all these shoot first. The Obsidian swarm will be a thing in the hands of someone highly resistant to player fatigue (fear the time someone like that emerges!) once more. Maybe the Assault Carrier is even going to add something to that, can't wait to see that thing hit the shelves, first on release epic purchase for me.

Just wanted to clarify that the Stresshog can actually stress two ships per turn: One with the primary and one with the TLT. The BTL title does not force you to target the same ship.

PS is still an issue going against a PS3 swarm, but if you get to shoot, you can potentially control two ship per turn. But either way, he's only 1 more point than Biggs and will do the same job, so I don't think you can go wrong taking it into your team.... And if we see it around a lot, I think we will start to see more Tycho... he just laugh at it.

It can, but single stress markers do little to nothing outside of specific situations. Double stress is where it is at if you really want to controll the enemy. It is of course pretty epic should you ever face Sigmas with ACD with a Gray Stresshog

Well the TLT-Stresshog is definitly not going to be a turret (or not going to be all that good). It is fantastic in a meta full of aces, but since it will only disrupt one ship per turn the utility versus full swarms is limited, especially if all these shoot first. The Obsidian swarm will be a thing in the hands of someone highly resistant to player fatigue (fear the time someone like that emerges!) once more. Maybe the Assault Carrier is even going to add something to that, can't wait to see that thing hit the shelves, first on release epic purchase for me.

Just wanted to clarify that the Stresshog can actually stress two ships per turn: One with the primary and one with the TLT. The BTL title does not force you to target the same ship.

PS is still an issue going against a PS3 swarm, but if you get to shoot, you can potentially control two ship per turn. But either way, he's only 1 more point than Biggs and will do the same job, so I don't think you can go wrong taking it into your team.... And if we see it around a lot, I think we will start to see more Tycho... he just laugh at it.

It can, but single stress markers do little to nothing outside of specific situations. Double stress is where it is at if you really want to controll the enemy. It is of course pretty epic should you ever face Sigmas with ACD with a Gray Stresshog

is there a way to "negative-like" that?! poor sigmas.. ;-)

erm.. DISLIKE! there..

there really should be a petition against R3A2 .. *pouring oil into the fire* ;-)

Well the TLT-Stresshog is definitly not going to be a turret (or not going to be all that good). It is fantastic in a meta full of aces, but since it will only disrupt one ship per turn the utility versus full swarms is limited, especially if all these shoot first. The Obsidian swarm will be a thing in the hands of someone highly resistant to player fatigue (fear the time someone like that emerges!) once more. Maybe the Assault Carrier is even going to add something to that, can't wait to see that thing hit the shelves, first on release epic purchase for me.

Just wanted to clarify that the Stresshog can actually stress two ships per turn: One with the primary and one with the TLT. The BTL title does not force you to target the same ship.

PS is still an issue going against a PS3 swarm, but if you get to shoot, you can potentially control two ship per turn. But either way, he's only 1 more point than Biggs and will do the same job, so I don't think you can go wrong taking it into your team.... And if we see it around a lot, I think we will start to see more Tycho... he just laugh at it.

It can, but single stress markers do little to nothing outside of specific situations. Double stress is where it is at if you really want to controll the enemy. It is of course pretty epic should you ever face Sigmas with ACD with a Gray Stresshog

Of course, double stressing one big threat ship is the ideal scenario, but when going against a swarm where there is none (except Howlrunner if she's there), stressing two ships instead, preventing them to pull a k-turn or a long maneuver plus barrel roll to block, might still serve a purpose. You are still forcing your opponent into a choice of maneuver next turn on 2 ships. Not game breaking, but for 26pts, I don't think you shot yourself in the foot by bringing it. At the very least, it will still draw agro.

Ohh, I didn't see that Crackshot+Glitterstim IGA&B made Top 4!

That essentially means I made Top 4, since I would've flown that list if I could've made it.

And we even share the same first name.

I feel slightly empowered

Plus the Phil who flew the list is a genuinely good guy from Phoenix Squadron.

poor Bs are getting pushed out... but with the new MOV fix, 4BZ could be good again.

It drops its worst con: Not being about to keep up. Now you only ahve to do 1/2 health to the turret, instead of all of it.

I tell you now good sirs: PLAY B WINGS AGAIN

The thing to remember, with the amount of ships available and the sheer diversity we are seeing, just because the B didn't show up in the top 16 of a 300 player tournament, doesn't mean it isn't good. I mean, the Blue, Gold, HWK, and 2 Z squad won Nova open. Hell, Farlander seems like a good choice to fight the stress hog.

Bs are just as good as before.There is nothing wrong with them, they're still one of the most efficient ships.

TLT ys are now just better anywhere but in R1 of the front arc, which is a tiny area compared to 360* everywhere else.

The meta will always shift to 'better' .

People got scared off of flying B-wings because dual-ace lists were supposed to have higher representation and they just walk all over mass-B.

B-wings agility, both dial and stat kills them against TLTs. With their dial they can't threaten the donut hole of the TLT with regularity. All the Y-wings have to do is look at a B-wing and its 2 damage. You simply aren't dodging a TLT unless his dice completely blank. At minimum you are at least taking a hit.

poor Bs are getting pushed out... but with the new MOV fix, 4BZ could be good again.

It drops its worst con: Not being about to keep up. Now you only ahve to do 1/2 health to the turret, instead of all of it.

I tell you now good sirs: PLAY B WINGS AGAIN

The thing to remember, with the amount of ships available and the sheer diversity we are seeing, just because the B didn't show up in the top 16 of a 300 player tournament, doesn't mean it isn't good. I mean, the Blue, Gold, HWK, and 2 Z squad won Nova open. Hell, Farlander seems like a good choice to fight the stress hog.

Bs are just as good as before.There is nothing wrong with them, they're still one of the most efficient ships.

TLT ys are now just better anywhere but in R1 of the front arc, which is a tiny area compared to 360* everywhere else.

The meta will always shift to 'better' .

People got scared off of flying B-wings because dual-ace lists were supposed to have higher representation and they just walk all over mass-B.

B-wings agility, both dial and stat kills them against TLTs. With their dial they can't threaten the donut hole of the TLT with regularity. All the Y-wings have to do is look at a B-wing and its 2 damage. You simply aren't dodging a TLT unless his dice completely blank. At minimum you are at least taking a hit.

That is not entirely true. While the B-Wing has trouble keeping up with the Y-Wings, its sheer cost efficiency makes it a good option to overpower TLT spam. B-Wings can pretty reliably remove 1 Y-Wing on the first round, the quad TLTs have to roll well to do that. On later turns the B-Wings will push crits through and after the first TLT is gone the firepower coming at them decreases rapidly.

poor Bs are getting pushed out... but with the new MOV fix, 4BZ could be good again.

It drops its worst con: Not being about to keep up. Now you only ahve to do 1/2 health to the turret, instead of all of it.

I tell you now good sirs: PLAY B WINGS AGAIN

The thing to remember, with the amount of ships available and the sheer diversity we are seeing, just because the B didn't show up in the top 16 of a 300 player tournament, doesn't mean it isn't good. I mean, the Blue, Gold, HWK, and 2 Z squad won Nova open. Hell, Farlander seems like a good choice to fight the stress hog.

Bs are just as good as before.There is nothing wrong with them, they're still one of the most efficient ships.

TLT ys are now just better anywhere but in R1 of the front arc, which is a tiny area compared to 360* everywhere else.

The meta will always shift to 'better' .

People got scared off of flying B-wings because dual-ace lists were supposed to have higher representation and they just walk all over mass-B.

B-wings agility, both dial and stat kills them against TLTs. With their dial they can't threaten the donut hole of the TLT with regularity. All the Y-wings have to do is look at a B-wing and its 2 damage. You simply aren't dodging a TLT unless his dice completely blank. At minimum you are at least taking a hit.

That is not entirely true. While the B-Wing has trouble keeping up with the Y-Wings, its sheer cost efficiency makes it a good option to overpower TLT spam. B-Wings can pretty reliably remove 1 Y-Wing on the first round, the quad TLTs have to roll well to do that. On later turns the B-Wings will push crits through and after the first TLT is gone the firepower coming at them decreases rapidly.

poor Bs are getting pushed out... but with the new MOV fix, 4BZ could be good again.

It drops its worst con: Not being about to keep up. Now you only ahve to do 1/2 health to the turret, instead of all of it.

I tell you now good sirs: PLAY B WINGS AGAIN

The thing to remember, with the amount of ships available and the sheer diversity we are seeing, just because the B didn't show up in the top 16 of a 300 player tournament, doesn't mean it isn't good. I mean, the Blue, Gold, HWK, and 2 Z squad won Nova open. Hell, Farlander seems like a good choice to fight the stress hog.

Bs are just as good as before.There is nothing wrong with them, they're still one of the most efficient ships.

TLT ys are now just better anywhere but in R1 of the front arc, which is a tiny area compared to 360* everywhere else.

The meta will always shift to 'better' .

People got scared off of flying B-wings because dual-ace lists were supposed to have higher representation and they just walk all over mass-B.

B-wings agility, both dial and stat kills them against TLTs. With their dial they can't threaten the donut hole of the TLT with regularity. All the Y-wings have to do is look at a B-wing and its 2 damage. You simply aren't dodging a TLT unless his dice completely blank. At minimum you are at least taking a hit.

That is not entirely true. While the B-Wing has trouble keeping up with the Y-Wings, its sheer cost efficiency makes it a good option to overpower TLT spam. B-Wings can pretty reliably remove 1 Y-Wing on the first round, the quad TLTs have to roll well to do that. On later turns the B-Wings will push crits through and after the first TLT is gone the firepower coming at them decreases rapidly.

Agreed. Remember what 4 Y-wing lists used to be called when 4-ship rebels was all the rage? 3 Y-wing lists. Because one of them always died the first round of fire.

If the Y-wing player has any sense he'll spread out and keep the fight at range. The Y-wing have a pretty large firepower advantage at range 3. You don't just sit there and joust a mass of B-wings unless you are running the title. Which you shouldn't unless you got the stressbot.

What I like is that most people decried 4 x TLT as the next auto-win for tournament play. Turns out there was only 1 list in Top 16 that was that. While many lists had TLTs as part of their list, it was just a part. I look and see some nice and well balanced lists. They seem to have a little bit of everything.

Well, the three Grays + Gold w/Autoblaster Turret is close enough, imo.

Well, the three Grays + Gold w/Autoblaster Turret is close enough, imo.

BTLA4 Grays, different animal entirely

So after a major wave Buffing ordinance did any lists in the top 16 have a single missle or torpedo or do they still suck?

Apparently they still suck because nobody in the top 32 even uses a single missile or torpedo....

At least a single Conner net made the top 16 but that doesn't say much for the other bombs. And no one else used a bomb in the top 32.

Just food did thought. Single use ordinance still isn't that great.

No, because the buff wasn't the one that people wanted/expected.

So after a major wave Buffing ordinance did any lists in the top 16 have a single missle or torpedo or do they still suck?

..?

how was something buffed?

there are pretty cool new bombs / mines out there, yes. also some interesting torps/missiles.

so yeah, in general there are some more options now. old stuff didn't get better though. neither did the biggest problem - the mechanics to use the stuff.

the 2 punisher-pilots are nice and fluffy, but also unique. you can use missiles on one, bombs on the other

-use still can't use the stuff more easily on generics, let alone tie-bombers.

bombs/mines are in an "okay" place.

the basic mechanic has to change to make missiles and torps interesting.

No, because the buff wasn't the one that people wanted/expected.

Overpaying for actionless single use atks is still just as bad regardless of extra munitions or munition failsafes. Even the better ordinance are not efficient.

Because it was talked about a ton when Extra Munitions was revealed. And again when Wave 7 was released.

I know... I just feel after worlds and showing not a single list in the top 32 used a single missle or torpedo and only 1 bomb.

You would think ffg would go back to the drawing board and fix the action economy issue that is really the biggest issue with ordinance. This still needs to be addressed in some form by the devs because it's still fairly bad right now.

No one who saw wave 7 had any grounds to think ord was "fixed"

All we got was extra munis and redline (and plasma torps but they're coming again with the jump master)

While I've been loving bombs in the new seemingly miniswarm meta (at least locally), theres nothing consistent enough to use ordnance

Well, except for homing scimitars. They're like HLC scyks that don't syck and can take seismics

As for the future, the jumpmaster is the ultimate test. Deadeye + r4 + recon +munis tackles EVERY issue with ord

Low PS targetlock? Nope; deadeye!

Lack of mods? Nope! R4 triggers off deadeye to give TL and recspec leaves a focus. Full mods, baby!

If jumpy (or that guidance w.e mod) doesn't do it, nothing will