So, I'd like to chip in. I'm not great at pysch warfare, but I can appreciate it. Esp in a competitive game.

However, there are a few things that cross the line. Recently, there have been some new core set era newbies coming to play Xwing with us.

They literally chatter non-stop, for 75 whole minutes. To themselves. Saying, "I should have done this move and I would have totally destroyed your ship." (No, you have a 25% statistical chance of rolling those hits and I have a 85% of rolling at least one evade). "Or narrating everything, "Okay, now you're shooting me, and I'm shooting you. And nex tturn you'll be on the rock. (didnt happen again, I out maneuvered him.)

I still beat him anyways. While he literally talked to himself. Because in all of his talk, he never actually left any space for anyone else to jump in.

After the game I really just wanted to leave cuz he was being literally annoying.

--

Also, if you try psych warfare in a casual game against a person you don't know, that's extremely rude imo, and you are likely making a strong enemy.

This is a game. Your worst enemies aren't the ones who will beat you. They're the ones who will refuse to play with you and tell their friends also about the negative experience they had playing you.

What you describe is not psychological warfare, but just a person who annoys you.

I understand. That would annoy me as well. I certainly don't engage in this behavior *cough*mostofthetime*cough* myself.

So, I'd like to chip in. I'm not great at pysch warfare, but I can appreciate it. Esp in a competitive game.

However, there are a few things that cross the line. Recently, there have been some new core set era newbies coming to play Xwing with us.

They literally chatter non-stop, for 75 whole minutes. To themselves. Saying, "I should have done this move and I would have totally destroyed your ship." (No, you have a 25% statistical chance of rolling those hits and I have a 85% of rolling at least one evade). "Or narrating everything, "Okay, now you're shooting me, and I'm shooting you. And nex tturn you'll be on the rock. (didnt happen again, I out maneuvered him.)

I still beat him anyways. While he literally talked to himself. Because in all of his talk, he never actually left any space for anyone else to jump in.

After the game I really just wanted to leave cuz he was being literally annoying.

--

Also, if you try psych warfare in a casual game against a person you don't know, that's extremely rude imo, and you are likely making a strong enemy.

This is a game. Your worst enemies aren't the ones who will beat you. They're the ones who will refuse to play with you and tell their friends also about the negative experience they had playing you.

What you describe is not psychological warfare, but just a person who annoys you.

I understand. That would annoy me as well. I certainly don't engage in this behavior *cough*mostofthetime*cough* myself.

No, he also attempted some psychological warfare. First time it did work actually. But it was very minimal "damage".

He was also trying to come off as smarmy and know it all. It was extremely arrogant, and I'm a person who really dislikes shows of ego. The rest of our playgroup is battle hardened enough to know that all of us are scrubs and nothing special.

This guy with his narrating was first trying to show that he thought he could predict whatever I would do. He would say, oh, you're planning this move and that move now. I was like... please shut up.

I guess in a way it worked. I hated playing with him. And from now, I'm bringing only the "OP, super-meta" builds against him. And not talking to him ever. 100-0 MOV. That's my goal now. Crush into the dirttttt

So, I have noticed that many people ignore the psychological side of the game. Well when talking to Darth Lupine about this there are a few things that cropped to mind.

So in this session of Discussion Time, let's go over what you do when you use the Psychological game and what you do when it is used against you.

Lupine brought up how people he plays gets flustered at times when he rushes them faster than they expected.

For me, I use the psychological game by showing great apathy. Forcing people to consider if their idea is even a good idea.

Sometimes I will even taunt them a little by telling them what will happen. I.e. "Sure, rush my Frigate, those B-Wings are just waiting for you. Who knows, you may get lucky and I won't have a squadron command"

When the psychological game gets used against me, I try to play it cool but I am susceptible to it. . . Those ISD's are **** intimidating!

while these are all things that are used by great competitors. I will say i absolutely hate this.

I want to just play a game vs my opponent were we can laugh and have fun. I dont want to rush them i dont want them to rush me. These are all things that have really soured my competitive experiences in warmachine and hordes. I dare say that the people who use this techniques are often insecure in their abilities to actually play the game and need these advantages because they feel they are not good enough. I am not trying to call anyone here out. I think it is very important for people to know that this stuff exists and how to identify when its happening to them. Like I said this often leads to more sportsmanship or players getting a bit frustrated and snippy towards each other as they are activiely trying to get inside each others head.

The mental aspect of the game you should focus is on are things like "how can i force my opponent into having to make reall hard decisions" this is what i thought this thread was about. I am a bit let down as that aspect of the psychological game is very good.

Trying to get your opponent off guard and break their train of thought to me proves that you arent good enough to beat them in a straight up fight and you need to distract them and capatilize. its something i persoanlly actively try not to do. Its far to easy to game people and borderline bully them which leads negative play experiences and bad reputations.

if you're playing rebels v imps, you will never beat your opponent in a straight up fight

(Except with B-wings, ofc)

I do like to label certain units in games against Cuthawolf to distract him.

Best ever was "Bloated Tick"

He finally caught on after a few games to my insidious plan...

My mind games involve being convivial and polite so that everybody has fun, the scene grows, and I make new friends.

My real ace-in-the-hole is a handshake after a match to seal the bond of camaraderie, and to forever snare them in my web friendship.

qftw

I congratulate my opponent whenever he kills a tie. "Gratz! 8 points for you!"

So wait... This isn't about using hypnotoads to beat your opponents???

I tend not to try and manipulate my opponent across the table. To me, my biggest opponent is really in my own head. I just need to not beat myself. I like to talk with my opponents if they are reciprocal about it. And I never try to kick a guy when he's down.

I like to slur my speech and spill my drink on my ships/cards as I manipulate them. Totally psych myself out. Every time.

Intimidation is like fear in a good horror movie - it forces you to create it yourself. Stay apathetic to the situation, always be confident in your choices, and with luck they will doubt themselves. If not, then they wouldn't be psyched out anyway and it isn't worth the attempt.

Here's the thing, you're not going to affect an experienced players play in the least with psychological tricks. So at best you're going to get some mileage out of it vs inexperienced players. But if you're a tournament goer, you don't game plan to beat inexperienced players. You should be able to do that anyway. You plan to beat good players, and this won't help against them.

So you may get a minor advantage vs players you don't need one against anyway, and you get yourself a reputation for being a ****. Not worth it really.

I'll talk smack to my friends sometimes, depending on how much whiskey we've had and how I'm feeling that day, but I don't believe in that kinda stuff during a tournament.

Now, if you are talking about trying to conceal your tactics through clever maneuvering in order to confuse your opponent, I try that kinda stuff all the time. It even works occasionally. Mostly I outsmart myself.

I do like to label certain units in games against Cuthawolf to distract him.

Best ever was "Bloated Tick"

He finally caught on after a few games to my insidious plan...

Hnnnng. Kindly find the nearest conflagration and expire in it ;P

I'm my own worst enemy in these games, so I'm pretty naff when it comes to even basic psychology like hiding my tactics with clever maneuvering and stuff. When something goes wrong it comes down on me HARD and I have to work hard not to feel crushed under it for the rest of the game. Those little voices that say I screwed up, made a stupid move, should have done better, etc make it pretty hard to affect an air of calm or control.

I also very much want my opponent to be having a good time. Don't get me wrong, I don't like to lose either, but I prefer it to the alternative: neither of us having a good time. If I'm crushing an opponent (which doesn't happen often) then they're often frustrated that things seem to be constantly going wrong. That frustration can turn into anger or despair and they're not really having a good time. I pick up on that and if they're not having a good time then I'm not really having a good time either...and if neither of us are having a good time, why are we playing?

I had it out with a local military guy once who always brought the latest and hottest netlist and complained that nobody wanted to play him. His rational was "It's a WARgame. Nobody restricts what you can bring to war, the point is to win." To which I said "1) there are conventions that restrict exactly that but mostly 2) it is also a warGAME, where people are playing to have a good time.

TL;DR - I'm happier with close games where everyone is having a good time. And I suck at psychology.

Here's the thing, you're not going to affect an experienced players play in the least with psychological tricks. So at best you're going to get some mileage out of it vs inexperienced players. But if you're a tournament goer, you don't game plan to beat inexperienced players. You should be able to do that anyway. You plan to beat good players, and this won't help against them.

So you may get a minor advantage vs players you don't need one against anyway, and you get yourself a reputation for being a ****. Not worth it really.

You see it as a waste but the cool, calm demeanor of a good player in itself is a form of psychological game.

So, I have noticed that many people ignore the psychological side of the game. Well when talking to Darth Lupine about this there are a few things that cropped to mind.

So in this session of Discussion Time, let's go over what you do when you use the Psychological game and what you do when it is used against you.

Lupine brought up how people he plays gets flustered at times when he rushes them faster than they expected.

For me, I use the psychological game by showing great apathy. Forcing people to consider if their idea is even a good idea.

Sometimes I will even taunt them a little by telling them what will happen. I.e. "Sure, rush my Frigate, those B-Wings are just waiting for you. Who knows, you may get lucky and I won't have a squadron command"

When the psychological game gets used against me, I try to play it cool but I am susceptible to it. . . Those ISD's are **** intimidating!

while these are all things that are used by great competitors. I will say i absolutely hate this.

I want to just play a game vs my opponent were we can laugh and have fun. I dont want to rush them i dont want them to rush me. These are all things that have really soured my competitive experiences in warmachine and hordes. I dare say that the people who use this techniques are often insecure in their abilities to actually play the game and need these advantages because they feel they are not good enough. I am not trying to call anyone here out. I think it is very important for people to know that this stuff exists and how to identify when its happening to them. Like I said this often leads to more sportsmanship or players getting a bit frustrated and snippy towards each other as they are activiely trying to get inside each others head.

The mental aspect of the game you should focus is on are things like "how can i force my opponent into having to make reall hard decisions" this is what i thought this thread was about. I am a bit let down as that aspect of the psychological game is very good.

Trying to get your opponent off guard and break their train of thought to me proves that you arent good enough to beat them in a straight up fight and you need to distract them and capatilize. its something i persoanlly actively try not to do. Its far to easy to game people and borderline bully them which leads negative play experiences and bad reputations.

I don't think you understood what Lyraeus meant. I don't rush my opponent in the sense that I try to make them play fast, on the contrary, I'm all laid back and relaxed about that.

What he means and what I do is fly all flank speed, speed three and engine techs, and I rush my ships at you as fast as possible. And as far as being insecure....hehe. I consider myself one of the top players in this area, and you will never meet anyone as self possessed and assured as myself. Just clarifying.

honestly, if you play the right list then no one really has any call to question you rushing into the opponent with your ships (unless it really is forcing your opponent to hurry...which is just a **** move). If the game ends quickly because of the blitz, then the player that got rushed can learn not to repeat his mistakes.

Happened to me once, it was a horrible experience, and I learned from it.

The alternative is staring down a bunch of dawdling GSDs, which is simply...bizarre.

I mean, it happens all the time I happen to point out the B-wings to an all-ship list, but in other circumstances it would just be weird and not terribly entertaining

I normally bring cookies and offer them to my opponent. While wearing the skull of my last opponent as a hat. You know, the usual.

We call them Psyops in my local meta. One operation we ran before involved Minefields, in the lead up time to the event me (the intel officer) and the psyops officer were using what intel we could gather on our local FLGS meta for listing purposes. We figured at the time when players were faced with Advanced Gunner and Hyperspace Assault against a very hard hitting and mobile fleet (3 guppies) people would tend to choose whatever Navigational objective at the time, even more so if it was minefields due to the 1st player being able to plot a course, mines not hurting that much and to put icing on the cake, the IFF podcast episode at the time downplayed Minefields as the throw away objective. So instead my psyops officer discovered a very effective way to use minefields that left little options for the 1st player and built his list around getting the initiative.

I arrived early at the event and joined a discussion between the players talk of objectives and the store champ mentioned that if someone as minefields he would choose that because its the easiest to deal with, where i casually noted to everyone that my psyops officer (yet to arrive) had brilliant minefields setup and that everyone should be worried. Everyone took the bait and laughed.

The psyops officer arrives and the tournament begins, first match he gets the initiative and goes second as planned, long and behold its Minefields. This is when the psyops officers yells to be across the room "Hey Iro! FIRST CATCH OF THE DAY!" (quoting Empire Strikes back) and which i respond with "Minefields right? Good luck to him!". Long story short he won, and his opponent started talking to everyone exclaiming 'NEVER AGAIN WILL I PICK MINEFIELDS!"

Fast forward to the final round, its psyops officer vs the store champ both in the lead of the tournament. Turns out the champs fleet and play style would actually do well in first player with the psyops officer's minefields setup BUT he opts for Hyperspace Assault because quote "I don't know what you have for Minefields but from what I've heard I don't want to deal with it!". Long story short, the psyops officer comes out on top and wins the event.

Psyops mission accomplished.

We told the guys about it after and we all had a good laugh and some guys even improved on it!

I think some people conflate phsycological tricks with attempts to get the opponent to tilt. Which is unfortunate, because most people who tilt do it to themselves. So being annoying or a jerk really just accomplishes being annoying or a jerk, and not actually lead to an advantage.

In a two player mostly open state game (the only hidden info being dials which isn't much) the primary ability to wage psychological warfare is controlling the perception of the game state. This is far easier to do in a multiplayer game where you oftentimes only need one person out of five to follow your line of bs.

In a two player game, the line of bs needs to be a very fine line. Most players are rightfully dubious of what comes out of the mouth of the opponent. So the most effective psych line is selling a gambit as a mistake. The quiet little "oh crap" a little after you moved the ship and the opponent 'pounces'.

These sorts of ploys (if not overdone) I view as just fine. It's like playing poker and selling your bluff. It's possible to do without being a jerk or attempting to ruin your opponents enjoyment. Getting the opponent to tilt however, is being a jerk.

I generally don't have a big plan to psych my opponent, but I will jump on the chance to reinforce a poor logical perception of the game state (in a 'competitive' environment). After the game I will certainly talk on the up and up. During a friendly game, which is mostly what I play anyway, the only time I attempt to psych an opponent is if they are a friend and very experienced. Otherwise, what's the point? Inexperienced players who want and appreciate coaching I'll offer my honest help to beat me.

Now that minefields is a perfect story. Thatssss how you play psych out. .

The psychological game is not all about making people tilt. It is about forcing people to readjust their plans and force decisions that they would normally hate