If a ship has the Damaged Controls crit effect applied to it, does that critical effect trigger when an opponents ship rams it?

Damaged Controls reads; When you overlap a ship or obstacle, deal a face down damage card to your ship (in addition to all other obstacle effects)

The other day, we had a VSD ram an Assault Frigate with this cards effect applied to it. We decided that it did apply, as the you refers to the ship with the effect and the ram damage means there was an overlap, even though the ship with the crit didn't cause the overlap to occur, but there was some debate.

Bonus question: If this card is applied to a ship as a result of an asteroid field, does it take a second damage card?

I dont believe so, because the wording is :"when you overlap", where "you" in the rules means the particular ship. In the case of being rammed by the opposing ship it is they who is causing the overlap.

IMO its written to only come into play when the effected ship moves, hence the "in addition to all other obstacle effects", which only happen when you move onto an obstacle (since they cannot move onto you), as opposed to saying "all other other obstacle or collision effects".

If a ship has the Damaged Controls crit effect applied to it, does that critical effect trigger when an opponents ship rams it?

Damaged Controls reads; When you overlap a ship or obstacle, deal a face down damage card to your ship (in addition to all other obstacle effects)

The other day, we had a VSD ram an Assault Frigate with this cards effect applied to it. We decided that it did apply, as the you refers to the ship with the effect and the ram damage means there was an overlap, even though the ship with the crit didn't cause the overlap to occur, but there was some debate.

Bonus question: If this card is applied to a ship as a result of an asteroid field, does it take a second damage card?

No to the first question:

-Like Maverick said, this card only triggers when you (i.e. the affected ship) overlap something, not when being overlapped by something else.

Yes to the bonus question:

-Asteroids cause you to be dealt a faceup damage card when you overlap them. Before you proceed to the next time fragment (i.e. " after you overlap an obstacle"), the Damaged Controls card will trigger.

I missed the second question lol

Yes, you would take an additional card because it says "in addition to all other obstacle effects" and the obstacle effect of an asteroid field is a face up damage card. So you would get both.

The other question is the order - if you landed on the station for instance, which would come first, removing a damage card (from the station manuver) or adding a damage card (from the critical damage)? Im inclined to say the manuver.

I missed the second question lol

Yes, you would take an additional card because it says "in addition to all other obstacle effects" and the obstacle effect of an asteroid field is a face up damage card. So you would get both.

The other question is the order - if you landed on the station for instance, which would come first, removing a damage card (from the station manuver) or adding a damage card (from the critical damage)? Im inclined to say the manuver.

They happen simultaneously, so you choose the order of execution.

Irritatingly I had "Damaged Controls" with a Victory and an Assault Frigate blocking my path..... but to add extra insult to my critical injury my VSD was on an asteroid! So....

Moved, collided with Assault frigate, 1 damage + 1 extra damage from "Damaged Controls"

Moved off the asteroid and landed back on it, 1 crit + 1 extra damage from "Damaged Controls"

So 3 hits and a crit before he attacked back. Low and behold the Vic didn't last very long!

Irritatingly I had "Damaged Controls" with a Victory and an Assault Frigate blocking my path..... but to add extra insult to my critical injury my VSD was on an asteroid! So....

Moved, collided with Assault frigate, 1 damage + 1 extra damage from "Damaged Controls"

Moved off the asteroid and landed back on it, 1 crit + 1 extra damage from "Damaged Controls"

So 3 hits and a crit before he attacked back. Low and behold the Vic didn't last very long!

Sorry for the necroposting, but if a ship has this crit and I ram it, I do 1 damage and another for this crit or one because I understand overlapping is bidirectional

Sorry for the necroposting, but if a ship has this crit and I ram it, I do 1 damage and another for this crit or one because I understand overlapping is bidirectional

Just 1 damage. The ship with damaged controls must overlap, not be overlapped by something else.

You refers to the ship.

Thanks a lot!

Arg. Just played a game there this happened. Thanks for the info. Had the same question. My ISD tamed an AF 2 that had Damaged control on the last round. The AF had 4 damage. So 1 more for ram but if that damage card work for being tamed also I would have destroyed the AF2. That sucks. But at least I know the ruling on that damage card now.

The application of the word "you" comes up in two specific contexts per the RRG.

1) On upgrade card effects, the term "you" refers to the ship that the upgrade card is equipped to (pg. 13)

2) On squadron cards, the term "you" refers to the squadron resolving the effect (pg. 12)

I'm unaware of any other provisions that specify the meaning of the word "you" in the rules, but assuming these are the only two provisions, then the answer to the first question is yes:

The ship afflicted with the Damage Controls critical effect takes an additional damage when another ship overlaps it.

This is because a critical effect is neither a squadron card, nor a upgrade card.

It is a critical effect card.

On 10/30/2015 at 11:30 PM, MaverickNZ said:

I dont believe so, because the wording is :"when you overlap", where "you" in the rules means the particular ship. In the case of being rammed by the opposing ship it is they who is causing the overlap.

IMO its written to only come into play when the effected ship moves, hence the "in addition to all other obstacle effects", which only happen when you move onto an obstacle (since they cannot move onto you), as opposed to saying "all other other obstacle or collision effects".

Interesting point, but isn't the usage of the word "you," referred to in only two specific contexts in the RRG?

One is in the context of squadron cards, and another is in the context of ship upgrade cards. A critical card effect is neither of these so is there anything else in the RRG that would support this?

Who else would "you" refer to on a critical card?

If a ship executes a maneuver and its final position would overlap another ship, it cannot finish its maneuver normally. Instead, temporarily reduce its speed by one(without changing the speed dial) and move the ship at thenew speed. This process continues until the ship can finish its maneuver, even if that maneuver is to remain in place at speed “0.” Then deal one facedown damage card to the ship that moved and the closest ship that it overlapped.

If a moving ship or squadron overlaps an obstacle token,it resolves an effect depending on the specific type of obstacle token that it overlapped.

"Overlap" is used in the rules not a state but a transitive verb. Only one ship or squadron at a time is the one doing the overlapping; the other is being overlapped.

When you overlap a ship or obstacle, deal a face down damage card to your ship (in addition to all other obstacle effects)

Not "when you are overlapped." "When you overlap." Two distinct things.

59 minutes ago, Ardaedhel said:

Who else would "you" refer to on a critical card?

"Overlap" is used in the rules not a state but a transitive verb. Only one ship or squadron at a time is the one doing the overlapping; the other is being overlapped.

Not "when you are overlapped." "When you overlap." Two distinct things.

Overlapping is a state in Armada.

A ship can be overlapping an obstacle (pg. 8).

Overlapping is only a temporary state when a ship collision occurs is because it is physically impracticable to leave ships on top of one another without disrupting game play.

You're suggesting that overlapping isn't mutual, which just isn't true as evidenced by the fact that both ships take a damage card when overlapping, and not just the ship that overlapped or was overlapped.

54 minutes ago, Warlord Zepnick said:

Overlapping is a state in Armada.

A ship can be overlapping an obstacle (pg. 8).

Overlapping is only a temporary state when a ship collision occurs is because it is physically impracticable to leave ships on top of one another without disrupting game play.

You're suggesting that overlapping isn't mutual, which just isn't true as evidenced by the fact that both ships take a damage card when overlapping, and not just the ship that overlapped or was overlapped.

Correct, the ship overlaps the obstacle. The obstacle is not simultaneously overlapping the ship.

Both ships take a damage card because

Then deal one facedown damage card to the

ship that moved and the closest ship that it overlapped.

Note the wording: "the closest ship that it overlapped." Transitive. Ship A overlaps Ship B. Not Ship A and Ship B were overlapping each other.

One ship is always the subject, and the other (or an obstacle) is the object. Overlapping is a thing that one ship does .

2 hours ago, Warlord Zepnick said:

The application of the word "you" comes up in two specific contexts per the RRG.

1) On upgrade card effects, the term "you" refers to the ship that the upgrade card is equipped to (pg. 13)

2) On squadron cards, the term "you" refers to the squadron resolving the effect (pg. 12)

I'm unaware of any other provisions that specify the meaning of the word "you" in the rules, but assuming these are the only two provisions, then the answer to the first question is yes:

The ship afflicted with the Damage Controls critical effect takes an additional damage when another ship overlaps it.

This is because a critical effect is neither a squadron card, nor a upgrade card.

It is a critical effect card.

Compartment Fire x2 - Crew - You cannot ready your defense tokens

Crew Panic x2 - Crew - Before revealing your command dial, discard it with no effect, or reveal it, but take one damage

Blinded Gunners x2 - Crew - You cannot spend Accuracy rolls while attacking

Comm Noise x2 - Crew - Your opponent may either reduce speed by 1 or choose a new command on your command dial, then flip face down

Life Support Failure x2 - Crew - Discard all command tokens, you may not have any command tokens

Damaged Controls x2 - Crew - When you overlap a ship or obstacle, deal a face down damage card to your ship (in addition to all other obstacle effects)

Injured Crew x4 - Crew - Choose and discard 1 of your defensive tokens, then flip this card facedown

Faulty Countermeasures x2 - Ship - You cannot spend exhausted defense tokens

Power Failure x2 - Ship - Your engineering value is reduced by half, rounded down

Ruptured Engine x2 - Ship - after you execute a manuever, if your speed on your speed dial is >1, suffer 1 damage

Targeter Disruption x2 - Ship - While attacking, you cannot resolve critical effects

Shield Failure x2 - Ship - Your opponent may choose up to 2 hull zones, each of those zones loses one shield, then flip facedown.

Projector Misaligned x2 - Ship - Your hull zone with the most remaining shields loses all of its shields, if multiple are tied, choose between the tied hull zones, then flip this card face down

Point-defense failure x2- Ship - when attacking a squadron, before you roll your attack pool, remove one die of your choice

Thruster Fissure x2 - Ship - when you change your speed by one or more, suffer one damage

Coolant discharge x2 - Ship - only one attack you perform each round can target a ship

Capacitor Failure x2 - Ship - If a hull zone has no remaining shields, you cannot recover shields in it, nor move shields to it, if that hull zone is defending, you cannot spend redirect tokens.

Thrust Control Malfunction x2 - Ship - The yaw value for the last adjustable joint at your current speed is reduced by 1

Damaged Munitions x2 - Ship - When attacking a ship before you roll your attck pool, remove 1 die of your choice.

Depowered Armament x2 - Ship - You cannot attack at long range

Disengaged Fire Control x2 - Ship - When declaring the target of an attack, you cannot choose a target against whom the attack would be obstructed

Structural Damage x8 - Ship - Deal an additional damage card to this ship, then turn this card facedown

Too many YOU that we don't know who are pointing then.

From the RRG p4 "Damage".

Faceup damage cards remain faceup unless an effect
flips them facedown. While a damage card is faceup, its
effect applies to the ship.

If the rule above is not enough try applying the overlapping section to the ship that is not moving.

And I will point that in this section it said that the ship that is not moving is being overlapped not that is overlapping:

[...]Then deal one facedown damage card to the
ship that moved and the closest ship that it overlapped.

So only one ship is overlapping each time and this ship is the ship that is moving. A ship can only overlap something when is moving.

Could something that is "under" something overlap what is "over" it? Maybe this question is stupid and come from a wrong reading of "over" that is equivalent to "super" in my language (from latin) and means "sobre", "encima" ("over" or "above" in English) so could be my fault.

EDIT : I see I repeat some arguments. Sorry for that.

Ard beat me to it.

Overlapping is a one-way affair. One ship is the overlapper, one (or more!) the overlappee(s).

Both the overlapper, and the closest of the overlappees, take one damage card.

Damaged Controls affects the overlapper only, not the overlappee.

10 minutes ago, DiabloAzul said:

Ard beat me to it.

Overlapping is a one-way affair. One ship is the overlapper, one (or more!) the overlappee(s).

Both the overlapper, and the closest of the overlappees, take one damage card.

Damaged Controls affects the overlapper only, not the overlappee.

I agree.

I was again attempting to play devil's advocate.