The cost of staying competitive? Well, just like any other game, it will of course get "up there". As for equipment, I would think the absolute worst you could do would be to make 100 point squadrons of anything in the game, leaving your purchase list like this, of course keeping in mind you bought everything you could at each time you could throughout the game's history (USD):

Core Sets (4@ $40 ea = $160):

2x Core

2x FA Core

Small ships (71@ $15 ea = $1065):

2x X-Wing

6x TIE Fighter

4x Y-Wing

4x TIE Advanced

6x A-Wing

5x TIE Interceptor

4x B-Wing

6x TIE Bomber

3x E-Wing

8x Z-95

5x HWK

3x TIE Defender

4x TIE Phantom

6x M3A

5x Kihraxz

Medium Ships (12@ $20 = $240):

4x K-Wing

4x TIE Punisher

4x StarViper

Large Ships (20@ $30 = $600):

3x Slave 1

3x YT-1300

4x Lambda Shuttle

2x Imperial Aces

3x Rebel Aces

2x IG-2000

3x YT-2400

Larger Ships (9@ $40 = $360):

3x YV-666

2x Decimator

4x Most Wanted

Epic:

1x Rebel Transport ($60)

1x Tantive-IV ($100)

1x Raider ($100)

For a ship grand total of: $2685 MSRP for 142 total ships.
This is of course not counting cases (add $500), binders for cards (add $100 including sleeves), a set of acrylic tokens ($100), tournament fees (lets say $20/mo or $720 over 3 years) and the big number in the equation: your time. So at the WORST, to stay "competitive" with any list you could ever want to build in all of x-wing's history, playing 2-4 tournaments a month, you would be out about $4000 over 3 years. Its not to say some people haven't spent more, or been smarter about not buying every single thing they possibly could field in 100 point fleets and buying much, much less. I have a grand total of 85 ships, and have spent probably close to $2000 on everything. I feel I've stayed "competitive" as I'd like to be (top 8 in regionals), play at least once a week, and probably 2 tournaments a month.

I do know people that spend far, FAR less and have gone much farther than I have (in terms of placings, and time playing). And congrats to them for spending what they feel is good to stay at the level of competitive they'd like! I still think there are worse games out there... because I won't even start calculating up what I've spent in MTG I'm looking at my "cube" for that game, knowing full well it cost more than all my x-wing stuff, and I play cube maybe 4 times a year.

I think a big problem is that people are so focused on tournaments. People are obsessed with them and won't play the game any other way -- even if they don't go to tournaments! People read that this deck is required for tournament play and immediately assume that the game is dead unless they get the new deck.

Also, nowhere in the core rules does it say that each player needs their own deck. You share the deck unless you are playing tournament rules. So most of these folks should have just shared a deck for their games.

I just feel like this got blown way out of proportion in people's heads.

EDIT: My point is that people who don't play competitively are feeling pressure (whether internal or external) to "keep up" with the game and buy what they would need for tournaments even though they don't attend. This makes those people upset and you get an outcry on the forums.

Nobody likes losing. As simple as that. Even if you're playing casually, you often play to win, trying to best your opponent unless you're playing against a new guy and you're giving him some handicap to make him have more fun from one of his first games. Otherwise it's just doing your best against friend's best to have some still competitive fun.

Granted, you may be playing for fun, using a themed list that might be weaker but you field it for fun, but I would risk saying that it's less often the case than just playing with best thing you can squeeze out of your miniatures. And now we look at your argument with casuals feeling pressure to keep up. A friend buys the new top combo, the Whisper(back in the day), TLT spam list or palpmobile and now he's blowing everyone in your group off the board (assuming that all players are of similar skill). So, what, is he a TFG for fielding it in a non-competitive group? Is the rest going to field counters to him?

You don't need to play in tournaments to want to fly the best thing, hell, I dare say that it has nothing to do with tournaments! Look at every single other wargame. New unit comes out/with new army book specific combo is great, you buy it - you want your army to be good. No matter if it's for tournaments or playing with friends, so the same thing applies to X-Wing.

As for the deck, I really don't get the issue here. Everyone will play the old one until it's forbidden, because it was less harsh and it's perfectly natural. If FFG wants people to use only new ones on their event, it's okay too - if everyone has to use it, there are no people with special benefits that come with using older deck. Once it's officially required from that point on, everyone will play it, so no difference there either.

I just don't like comparing prices of X-Wing with other games. It's just the thing that you waste a lot of money on stuff you don't need just for a couple cards. In most wargames you buy only the stuff you'll use in your army, much less dead weight unless you collect and hoard stuff like I do. Oh, the frown you see on an interested new player's face when you tell him that he needs rebel/imp models to be able to play scums just because they have cards! Sure, he can proxy, but some people don't like to do that - in MtG proxying is considered lame unless you're checking out an expensive card for a game or two to see if it will work, but otherwise it's frowned upon.

My ppost was not addressing costs of lists at all, and if you read between the lines, neither is the OP. My point is solely about the deck issue and having the new deck is not going to help you win. That means there is no reason for a person who doesn't play in tournaments and doesn't want TFA ships to buy the new core. It gives them no bnefit soyour argument about wanting to win doesn't apply. The problem is that people like you think there will come a time when the new deck is the only legal way to play, even if you're at home or playing a casual game at the shop. This game has way more to it than the standard tournament format and rules. People shouldn't be so quick to enforce tournament rules outside of tournaments.

Everything you said about keeping up with lists, though seems accurate to me.

I think the issue was less about the amount but the fact that it would have been a forced purchase.

In my experience people spend cash way easier if they can tell themselves 'this is something I want to buy' rather than 'this is something I have to buy'

If FFG released the damage deck as it's own product to sell and said it is replacing the old damage deck, that would be a forced purchase, yet a lot of arguments I am seeing on this forum are that people would prefer that method of release. It is not at all about a 'forced purchase', it is about MONEY, period. If the damage deck was available as a $5 product we wouldn't have this topic right now. Anyone that says otherwise is only fooling themselves and trying to deflect the real argument.

The problem is that people like you think there will come a time when the new deck is the only legal way to play, even if you're at home or playing a casual game at the shop. This game has way more to it than the standard tournament format and rules. People shouldn't be so quick to enforce tournament rules outside of tournaments.

I haven't seen anyone try to enforce tournament rules outside of tournaments. The announcement in question was made by the Organized Play (i.e. tournament) arm of FFG. Therefore, any discussion of the issue needs to be framed in that regard. Of course it's true that when you play at home or in a friendly game at your FLGS, you can use whichever deck you want, proxy cards and ships, and so on. But, in a tournament you're bound by a strict set of guidelines and rules.

This issue is about tournaments, plain and simple. To suggest otherwise is to muddy the issue.

SImple fact of the matter is that FFG needs to employ their print-on-demand service to sell damage decks to people who do not want to buy the TFA starter, but wish to keep playing in official tournaments.

My ppost was not addressing costs of lists at all, and if you read between the lines, neither is the OP. My point is solely about the deck issue and having the new deck is not going to help you win. That means there is no reason for a person who doesn't play in tournaments and doesn't want TFA ships to buy the new core. It gives them no bnefit soyour argument about wanting to win doesn't apply. The problem is that people like you think there will come a time when the new deck is the only legal way to play, even if you're at home or playing a casual game at the shop. This game has way more to it than the standard tournament format and rules. People shouldn't be so quick to enforce tournament rules outside of tournaments.

Everything you said about keeping up with lists, though seems accurate to me.

Well, it might just be a matter of the mindset. Polish wargamers were always competitive ones and almost every wargamer participates in tournaments from time to time, so we're more likely to just adapt tournament rules for our casual games. Of course we do play casual games for fun and in my group we often come up with some fun alternative rules or additional ones to make games more interesting than your generic set of objectives, but most games are just that, games against friends. Yes, noone is hell-bent on fielding just TLT, palpmobile and Soontir+RAC lists every single game as we like to play around with casual/fun lists, but as I mentioned in previous post - we still play to win and adjust to more competitive rules.

Hence the mention of damage deck becoming the "default" one over time. Not only legal as you worded it, but when it's officially THE deck to use, the old one will be frowned upon after some time. Especially that it's much less punishing, than the new one, so obviously if the group shifts over to the new one it will be socially expected for people to use the new one too. Sure, you won't be told "no", unless you admit that you have the new one but would rather play on the old deck as that's just simply giving yourself an advantage. Of course if you don't have the new deck noone will tell you to go buy TFA set before the game and we would be perfectly okay with you using it, but with time it will be expected of you to switch over eventually.

See, it's not about some imaginary "from now on you need it!" sudden statement. Noone is going to enforce it, but it will be expected once everyone has it. That's just how stuff works. It's like using old Codex for 40k when a new one came out. Sure, there are reasons that justify not getting it day one, but after some time you will be expected to update yours. And in case of the decks there's a clear advantage (not huge, but clear) in using the old one. Or upgrade cards. Can you imagine a situation in which, say, there's a new version of Predator that only lets you re-roll one die no matter the enemy PS? Now I'm sure you can admit that sooner or later, when enough people have the new card, it will be the default version that everyone will expect people to use, rather than the older, better one that officially got replaced.

Ok from both points:
My sister came into this game with a $200 set of Rebel ships. Some dang good ones at that. I came in to this game with a Defender, a Core Set and a Phantom. She has never won against me. Ever. Cost is meaningless if you are a terrible stratagist.
You cannot pay to win this game like you can with MTG or other collectable games. This game is cheap comapred to other mini games to the point where it is absurd.

On the damage deck: The reversal saddens me. But for the most part my entire meta (even the scum only guys) bought the 2.0 Core. We have it. Move on.

the solution IMO was for them to sell the new damage decks for like $10 or something... like they do dice packs... (as others have pointed out...)

I was happy to see they were putting out a new damage deck that they felt was more balanced... but was not happy the only way to get it was a new core set (although I want the new core set anyways... but not everyone does)

The biggest cost of staying competitive is the ongoing degeneration of the X-Wing community into incivility.

The biggest cost of staying competitive is the ongoing degeneration of the X-Wing community into incivility.

Don't let the hateful clowns bother you my Star Brother... just put them on IGNORE and keep them there... where they belong.

I think a big problem is that people are so focused on tournaments. People are obsessed with them and won't play the game any other way -- even if they don't go to tournaments! People read that this deck is required for tournament play and immediately assume that the game is dead unless they get the new deck.

...

EDIT: My point is that people who don't play competitively are feeling pressure (whether internal or external) to "keep up" with the game and buy what they would need for tournaments even though they don't attend. This makes those people upset and you get an outcry on the forums.

So on the one hand there was the refusal on the part of the company to update the old core set, and on the other hand there was the attitude that tournament-style play represents the basic points match for casual play. The result: an emotional response that might make the old core set look obsolete. This is commercially bad.

And the solution was to make the old damage deck fully legal, for the time being I suppose.

So as much as the company is to blame for what doesn't look like a good decision, the customers' attitude plays an equally important role.

With all the reaction to the new ruling of choosing to use the new old or new damage deck, there was many mentions of it being unfair for FFG to force a $40 purchase just to be able to compete in tournaments. So it got me thinking, how much does it really cost to compete in the current meta? Here are some popular squadrons and how much they cost to get all the components to run the lists (Credit to randolph for the Han Shopped First app http://randolphw.github.io/han-shopped-first/) As you can see, some of the more popular lists in the meta will run you $150+, not including a core set for the components you require to start. Nothing regarding the new core set would affect casual players, and I'm currently running a semi-competitive league in which I had given the option for both sides to run either the new deck or old deck, and as long as they were the same, I didn't see an issue with it, because, balance. So what is the real issue? Is it pride? Or are people this naive that they think a $40 price forced on them to play competitively is too much? Is it not about the money, but about the way FFG did it? Was it not the right move to bank on the opportunity to fix a balance issue when they were tasked to release product tied to the new movie? Was it not the right move to allow about 3 months after releasing this product before requiring this new deck to be mandatory? Was it not the right move to provide these decks free of charge to all those competing at Worlds that do not have the new core set yet?Is it fair to those that are more active in the competitive format of X-Wing be punished by allowing an unbalanced element like the old deck continue to be used purposefully by your opponents to gain an advantage? And I'm not going to sit here and defend FFG either. This decision made them seem weak and disorganized. Just a few articles before they explained all the reasons why a new damage deck was necessary, just to undermine it soon after as an "alternative" option. Agree or disagree with the decision, it would have been best if they stuck with one from the beginning.Sorry about the rant, but I'm sorely disappointed, and wanted to drop my two cents.I'd like to hear your thoughts as well!

You're not /required/ to make a copy and paste meta list to enter a tournament. You don't /have/ to buy a most wanted set for things, you can play something else or ebay/trade for the cards individually.

You would have been /required/ to get a new damage deck. It would be like if FFG made 2 Starvipers a forced inclusion in every list.

Also, until you start complaining about Super Dash players ignoring the 3 god damned large debris fields they plop down, I'll consider your opinion bereft of any validity. I'll concede allowing damage deck choice when we errata pilot Dash's ability to be something not ******* broken.

Until then, my Academy Pilots will treat 1/7th of their crits as regular damage. Live with it.

As a sidenote, I akso find it a pretty bad decision from FFG that they made the new core even less Scum-friendly than the old core. New core has 1 card usable on Scum (Wired) whereas the old one has 3 (Determination, Marksmanship and Proton Torpedos). It's likely that 'what dies Scum get out of TFA core?' was never considered

Is it possible that there is a disconnect at a cwrtain level between FFG and customers? From the way the cards are distributed, FFG seems to target people that collect everything (most good cards only appear in one or two factions),but how many people actually do that?

Im my local meta we only have two buy everything guys, while the rest of us (20 or so) focus largely on one faction.

To be fair, describing Determination, Marksmanship or Proton Torps as usable is a bit of a strech, while Wired really is good

New core also has PTs.