With all the reaction to the new ruling of choosing to use the new old or new damage deck, there was many mentions of it being unfair for FFG to force a $40 purchase just to be able to compete in tournaments. So it got me thinking, how much does it really cost to compete in the current meta?

Here are some popular squadrons and how much they cost to get all the components to run the lists (Credit to randolph for the Han Shopped First app http://randolphw.github.io/han-shopped-first/)

As you can see, some of the more popular lists in the meta will run you $150+, not including a core set for the components you require to start.

Nothing regarding the new core set would affect casual players, and I'm currently running a semi-competitive league in which I had given the option for both sides to run either the new deck or old deck, and as long as they were the same, I didn't see an issue with it, because, balance.

So what is the real issue? Is it pride? Or are people this naive that they think a $40 price forced on them to play competitively is too much?

Is it not about the money, but about the way FFG did it? Was it not the right move to bank on the opportunity to fix a balance issue when they were tasked to release product tied to the new movie? Was it not the right move to allow about 3 months after releasing this product before requiring this new deck to be mandatory? Was it not the right move to provide these decks free of charge to all those competing at Worlds that do not have the new core set yet?

Is it fair to those that are more active in the competitive format of X-Wing be punished by allowing an unbalanced element like the old deck continue to be used purposefully by your opponents to gain an advantage?

And I'm not going to sit here and defend FFG either. This decision made them seem weak and disorganized. Just a few articles before they explained all the reasons why a new damage deck was necessary, just to undermine it soon after as an "alternative" option. Agree or disagree with the decision, it would have been best if they stuck with one from the beginning.

Sorry about the rant, but I'm sorely disappointed, and wanted to drop my two cents.

I'd like to hear your thoughts as well!

What is this thread about, exactly? It seems on the face of it to be questioning the cost of list building, but the last couple of paragraphs make it seem like just another rant about the damage deck ruling (of which we already have several active topics already).

Clarity and focus may help here.

Don't like the cost? Then don't play competitively. No one is ever forced to play competitive X-Wing, they do so by choice.

Most competitive hobbies are based around wants and not needs - they will all consume your financial resources.

No offense, dude, but these kind of threads reek of the unfortunate "first world problems" attitude.

How many people are going to specifically set out to build a certain list and buy to complete it, compared to those who simply collect X-Wing and have the pieces to build it already?

I could field the Paul Heaver Biggs walks the dog list for $76.74. That list includes everything I need including range rulers, dice, and a damage deck.

One of about a million reasons why this game is awesome for competitive and casual play .

Core Set - 26.99

X-Wing Expansion - 9.95

B-Wing X 2 - 19.90

E-Wing X 2 (Advanced Sensors) - 19.90

an oldy, but a goody

Compare this game to other war games (Warmachine, Infinity, DZC, 40K!, etc), and you'll see how stupidly cheap it is. I mean, absurdly cheap. Did I mention how cheap this game is?

people! this thread is about the damage deck thing.

the point op was trying to make is.

"People drop maga dollars on this game so they should not be too upset with having to purchase a TFA starter for a new damage deck. old decks should not be allowed in competition."

This assumes the argument for supporting the old deck is about the cost of upgrading.

So folks are whining about a 30 doller ish core set yet spend 50 bucks or more to drive to events so they can "Prize snipe" a 50 cent acrylic token or range ruler. Lol.Nerds!!! After paying a 5 to 10 doller entry fee of course.

Also notice that folks that whine about costs Always quote MSRP or worst the LGS mark up price. Never an mm or cool stuff price..

Im not a competive player but just my two cents. It was advertised as becoming mandatory sometime after release. O probably would have gotten it anyway. Its still a pretty decent value for the dollar. Where i see ffg going wrong is reversing itself. Most competitive players would of bought it anyway to try new things to get an edge.i feel if they would of origanaly stated they wernt sure about makingin mandatory it would of been better recived

Also buying every thing doesn't gaurntee you a win like some seem to imply. Lol. It just means your kids are grown and you have a good job. Nothing more nothing less. Lol

Also notice that folks that whine about costs Always quote MSRP or worst the LGS mark up price. Never an mm or cool stuff price..

Well first we Arnt all mericans.

Second I have always stated the cheapest price never the retail.

And third the complaint isn't about price, it's having to spend money on stuff you don't want.

I don't like wasting money and to me that's what the new core represents money spent on stuff I'll just throw away.

Well. The problem is that most **** lists are also like... expensive.

Wanna see how much it costs to fly

2 Tansarii Pt Vet

2HLC 2Hull

Torkil Mux TLT

Z

?

Here's another **** list:

Rexler VI HLC Tie mk2

Howl

3AP

Imo, anyway, you WANT the new damage deck. Its better for your games and sanity.

You might not want the new core yet. So, borrow from someone?

~200 - 250$ for a list that will win, regularly vs. a variety of opponents, is incredibly cheap as compared to Warmachine/Hordes or Warhammer 40k

I think a big problem is that people are so focused on tournaments. People are obsessed with them and won't play the game any other way -- even if they don't go to tournaments! People read that this deck is required for tournament play and immediately assume that the game is dead unless they get the new deck.

Also, nowhere in the core rules does it say that each player needs their own deck. You share the deck unless you are playing tournament rules. So most of these folks should have just shared a deck for their games.

I just feel like this got blown way out of proportion in people's heads.

EDIT: My point is that people who don't play competitively are feeling pressure (whether internal or external) to "keep up" with the game and buy what they would need for tournaments even though they don't attend. This makes those people upset and you get an outcry on the forums.

I think a big problem is that people are so focused on tournaments. People are obsessed with them and won't play the game any other way -- even if they don't go to tournaments! People read that this deck is required for tournament play and immediately assume that the game is dead unless they get the new deck.

Also, nowhere in the core rules does it say that each player needs their own deck. You share the deck unless you are playing tournament rules. So most of these folks should have just shared a deck for their games.

I just feel like this got blown way out of proportion in people's heads.

EDIT: My point is that people who don't play competitively are feeling pressure (whether internal or external) to "keep up" with the game and buy what they would need for tournaments even though they don't attend. This makes those people upset and you get an outcry on the forums.

Nobody likes losing. As simple as that. Even if you're playing casually, you often play to win, trying to best your opponent unless you're playing against a new guy and you're giving him some handicap to make him have more fun from one of his first games. Otherwise it's just doing your best against friend's best to have some still competitive fun.

Granted, you may be playing for fun, using a themed list that might be weaker but you field it for fun, but I would risk saying that it's less often the case than just playing with best thing you can squeeze out of your miniatures. And now we look at your argument with casuals feeling pressure to keep up. A friend buys the new top combo, the Whisper(back in the day), TLT spam list or palpmobile and now he's blowing everyone in your group off the board (assuming that all players are of similar skill). So, what, is he a TFG for fielding it in a non-competitive group? Is the rest going to field counters to him?

You don't need to play in tournaments to want to fly the best thing, hell, I dare say that it has nothing to do with tournaments! Look at every single other wargame. New unit comes out/with new army book specific combo is great, you buy it - you want your army to be good. No matter if it's for tournaments or playing with friends, so the same thing applies to X-Wing.

As for the deck, I really don't get the issue here. Everyone will play the old one until it's forbidden, because it was less harsh and it's perfectly natural. If FFG wants people to use only new ones on their event, it's okay too - if everyone has to use it, there are no people with special benefits that come with using older deck. Once it's officially required from that point on, everyone will play it, so no difference there either.

I just don't like comparing prices of X-Wing with other games. It's just the thing that you waste a lot of money on stuff you don't need just for a couple cards. In most wargames you buy only the stuff you'll use in your army, much less dead weight unless you collect and hoard stuff like I do. Oh, the frown you see on an interested new player's face when you tell him that he needs rebel/imp models to be able to play scums just because they have cards! Sure, he can proxy, but some people don't like to do that - in MtG proxying is considered lame unless you're checking out an expensive card for a game or two to see if it will work, but otherwise it's frowned upon.

While I'm not questioning the cost of some lists you are providing, I think that you present them in a bubble that doesn't reflect the hobby in the real world.

First I will allow you the concession that A) X-wing can get expensive very quickly and B)a new player who is experienced competitively in other games may set out to buy tournament lists off the bat.

However most new players will build on their collection slowly, borrow cards from friends to try them out etc. In addition to use the examples of the lists you have mentioned, many are spread over several waves worth of releases as a result the "buy it now" cost is unlikely to apply for most players. There is also the added value and reusability of the expansions to consider: a card can be used in multiple lists, it is a non perishable commodity. Expansions come with other ships and other cards that can also be used in other lists or sold online. Unless you are particularly careless or fickle and break or give/throw away your ships/cards they aren't going anywhere.

I have only been playing since August and already I have at least 50% of the requirements of most of your lists, therefore it would not cost me anywhere near your suggested price tag to "stay competitive". Other more established players would spend even less.

What I always miss in these cost rundowns is that you do pay that much to assemble the neccessary components for that one list, but also collect things for countless other, vastly different lists along with that.

Yup... playing competitively is the sure fire way (for most people who think they should be a gamer-hero) to Kill The STAR WARS JOYS.

Now PH and others like him, that we know and have watched play many times... they are doing it right.

Understand just what it is that you want, and you will be able to stay get it and remain happy, kick some butt in a cool way, and you will always have "PEW-PEW-PEW!" which is one of the best things in a good well rounded happy Star-nerds life.

If $$$ is an issue then proceed according to your resources.

It's all real easy...

The other thing not being considered is non-ideal lists. You can run decent lists without having a "perfect" list. Player skill is just as important as your list, and a good player can fly an okay list and do very well. They can probably get away with running a list that is only a core set and a pair of expansions and do quite well.

The other thing not being considered is non-ideal lists. You can run decent lists without having a "perfect" list. Player skill is just as important as your list, and a good player can fly an okay list and do very well. They can probably get away with running a list that is only a core set and a pair of expansions and do quite well.

When I started all I had was four ties from the core and some tie advanced, you couldn't buy squints for love nor money but it didn't stop me winning.

You can copy tournament lists but without the skill you'll never get as good a result from it.

I think the issue was less about the amount but the fact that it would have been a forced purchase.

In my experience people spend cash way easier if they can tell themselves 'this is something I want to buy' rather than 'this is something I have to buy'

What I always miss in these cost rundowns is that you do pay that much to assemble the neccessary components for that one list, but also collect things for countless other, vastly different lists along with that.

When you buy an expansion just for an upgrade card you are clearly obligated to throw everything else in the trash. Ship and all.

I think the issue was less about the amount but the fact that it would have been a forced purchase.

In my experience people spend cash way easier if they can tell themselves 'this is something I want to buy' rather than 'this is something I have to buy'

If FFG released the damage deck as it's own product to sell and said it is replacing the old damage deck, that would be a forced purchase, yet a lot of arguments I am seeing on this forum are that people would prefer that method of release. It is not at all about a 'forced purchase', it is about MONEY, period. If the damage deck was available as a $5 product we wouldn't have this topic right now. Anyone that says otherwise is only fooling themselves and trying to deflect the real argument.