Forget Han, Screed shot first.

VSD-II + Overload Pulse + Screed
ISD-I +Avenger

Forget Han, Screed shot first.

VSD-II + Overload Pulse + Screed

ISD-I +Avenger

Do the same thing for 56 pts with a Raider-II.

Hell, take two of em.

I like vsd 1s better. that is all.

To answer the OP: No.

If anything, the Vic 1 is about 1 or 2 pts. too cheap. And the Gladiators about 2-3 pts. too cheap. This is just my intuitive "gut" feeling. I don't have a mathipedia to back me up on this.

If I remember correctly, when Armada was first being demo'ed, the VSD-I's were 75 points (10 less than the VSD-II)

Each game I paly with a VSD2, its blue dice MURDER something. Sometimes two things. worth 12 points? hell yes. You could get enhanced for 10. Or two x17 for that cost. Only the 2x17s really outdamage the sheer firepower of the VSD2.

I've only gotten the black dice on the VSD1 to go off twice. And they were meh on the side arc.

If I take a "Star Destroyer" I want to see things DIE.

We're the Empire, son. Black dice or GTFO.

This.

All VSD1s with ACM, all the time.

I have no idea how a VSD1 with ACM , Weapons liaison and H9 Turbolasers is only 6 points more expensive than a VSD2.

All of a sudden you have a ship that always has the correct order (Thanks Tarkin!), almost always does +2 damage that ignores defence tokens, and always has an accuracy to ignore brace. VSD2s just can't compare.

Gunnery teams. VSD-II is more likely to get 2 interesting front arc shots that includes blue dice.

I like the VSD-II. With SW-7 Ions you get a guaranteed 3 blue damage from the front arc each attack, 6 when gunnery teams comes into play.

Of course, by comparrison, a VSD-I with expanded launchers comes at roughly the same price as the VSD-II with SW-7 ions (4 points less) and spews out an average of 5 black damage from the front each attack, 10 when gunnery teams comes into play.

Comparing the two the VSD-I has more damage potential at the same point cost, and a higher damage average. The VSD-II deals less damage but it is guaranteed damage. It also has more chance at accuracy (at the cost of damage) when you need it, and more range.

Overall I feel they should have given the VSD-II slightly better mobility to justify the points difference, or a slight points reduction, but its not like it is completely outclassed by the VSD-I

Gunnery teams. VSD-II is more likely to get 2 interesting front arc shots that includes blue dice.

I like the VSD-II. With SW-7 Ions you get a guaranteed 3 blue damage from the front arc each attack, 6 when gunnery teams comes into play.

Of course, by comparrison, a VSD-I with expanded launchers comes at roughly the same price as the VSD-II with SW-7 ions (4 points less) and spews out an average of 5 black damage from the front each attack, 10 when gunnery teams comes into play.

Comparing the two the VSD-I has more damage potential at the same point cost, and a higher damage average. The VSD-II deals less damage but it is guaranteed damage. It also has more chance at accuracy (at the cost of damage) when you need it, and more range.

Overall I feel they should have given the VSD-II slightly better mobility to justify the points difference, or a slight points reduction, but its not like it is completely outclassed by the VSD-I

This is my sense. If this thing is going to have a max speed of two and bad maneuverability, I want as much dice as possible when I do have a shot. Three reds is meh. Four reds is better (but usually still "meh," at least when I roll them). Not taking Gunnery Teams seems like a wasted opportunity on the II. Of course, at that point, you're talking about a 92 point ship, and I'm not sure the upgrade to an ISD-I isn't worth 18 points.

That said, I almost always prefer a Vic-I with Dominator over a vanilla Vic-II, for the same point total. The ability to add two medium dice when you need them (especially when shooting from the side and the rear) is huge, and if spam engineering and have Wulff, you could get 3-4 of those mega bursts in before you start to run dry. For whatever reason, Dominator on a Vic-II seems far less palatable to me.

Like I've said, one klick more for the VSD-II while on speed 2.

But all ship variants have the same movement profile, so this isn't an option, though.

Had a game yesterday ... and it was down to VSD1 (Screed, ACM) vs. VSD2 (Motti) ... VSD1s won the game.

VSD II seems to lose against imperials as well - whenever mine has gone up against the vic 1 it has lost the damage race quickly.

At present I'm just going with VSD 1s, as they seem to be just as good at red dice range, and the points break lets me put in a more specialised upgrade.

But at some point I expect to change back. The good thing about this game is that its balance is so tight that nothing is invalid for very long before you find a new use or benefit from it.

lose against imperials "as well?"

not sure if that's the intention, but I don't know if that's referring to "in addition to the cost/speed issue" or "against rebels and imps"

because while a VSD-2 loses a straight dice-fest to the VSD-1, it is far far scarier for Rebels than the VSD-1

about the only times I've ever had a VSD-1 salvo black dice, aside from when I was just starting, was out of its crap arcs or when I fodder something to it. It's just so hilariously easy to avoid with rebels, and especially Afmk2s; you barely have to make any effort.

The VSD-2 , though? that range will snag a fattie's ass right quick and it hurts

With tractor beams arriving, though, I wonder if the VSD-1 can't give fatties similar fears

In fact, If you use VSD I for close combat and use it also with the Squadrons command, combined with the upgrades that makes them very powerful, your fighters are doing the long shot run and you are defending yourself with the "close combat" back dies and red dies.

The VSD II is mainly to attack with or without fighter squadrons. Gives range and power combine with the right upgrade cards.

I built a new fleet today to see how I can deal with the matter. VSD I with Fighter upgrades to make the long shot. They are not that easy to shoot by capital ships and they can be lethal against them. Put Admiral Chiraneau to make your fighters "not engageable". They'll be able to make their run without being hold with other fighters.

VSD II for the direct attack from a secured and ranged position with also, the proper upgrades to make every attack efficient.

That might spice things up and makes it interesting next game with that kind of setup.

lose against imperials "as well?"

not sure if that's the intention, but I don't know if that's referring to "in addition to the cost/speed issue" or "against rebels and imps"

because while a VSD-2 loses a straight dice-fest to the VSD-1, it is far far scarier for Rebels than the VSD-1

about the only times I've ever had a VSD-1 salvo black dice, aside from when I was just starting, was out of its crap arcs or when I fodder something to it. It's just so hilariously easy to avoid with rebels, and especially Afmk2s; you barely have to make any effort.

The VSD-2 , though? that range will snag a fattie's ass right quick and it hurts

With tractor beams arriving, though, I wonder if the VSD-1 can't give fatties similar fears

Sorry, I think I missed a couple of posts... was following D503s observation that you can fit H9s and ACMs onto a VSD1 for almost the same points and be a lot scarier at long and short range than a stock VSD2. Ive never managed to get reliable results out of the VSD 2. Of course, when you can get those three blue dice on a assault frigate it can be satisfying!

Gunnery teams. VSD-II is more likely to get 2 interesting front arc shots that includes blue dice.

I like the VSD-II. With SW-7 Ions you get a guaranteed 3 blue damage from the front arc each attack, 6 when gunnery teams comes into play.

Of course, by comparrison, a VSD-I with expanded launchers comes at roughly the same price as the VSD-II with SW-7 ions (4 points less) and spews out an average of 5 black damage from the front each attack, 10 when gunnery teams comes into play.

Comparing the two the VSD-I has more damage potential at the same point cost, and a higher damage average. The VSD-II deals less damage but it is guaranteed damage. It also has more chance at accuracy (at the cost of damage) when you need it, and more range.

Overall I feel they should have given the VSD-II slightly better mobility to justify the points difference, or a slight points reduction, but its not like it is completely outclassed by the VSD-I

This is my sense. If this thing is going to have a max speed of two and bad maneuverability, I want as much dice as possible when I do have a shot. Three reds is meh. Four reds is better (but usually still "meh," at least when I roll them). Not taking Gunnery Teams seems like a wasted opportunity on the II. Of course, at that point, you're talking about a 92 point ship, and I'm not sure the upgrade to an ISD-I isn't worth 18 points.

That said, I almost always prefer a Vic-I with Dominator over a vanilla Vic-II, for the same point total. The ability to add two medium dice when you need them (especially when shooting from the side and the rear) is huge, and if spam engineering and have Wulff, you could get 3-4 of those mega bursts in before you start to run dry. For whatever reason, Dominator on a Vic-II seems far less palatable to me.

This Dominator + Wulff thing is mostly wishful thinking on the Vic-I. In practice shooting 2 red + 2 blue out the sides/rear is just an expensive way of killing yourself, because this is the point where the enemy happens to converge on you. On occasion it might work, but reliably getting 3-4 mega-strikes? Not had that happen to me ever.

I think tractor beams on VSDs is going to be beautiful. I really want 3 of those cards, but can't justify getting a second ISD or MC80.

So it's funny, because when just the Core was released, the VSD-II pretty much reigned supreme. You had no Bombers, no Gladiators (to reach out beyond the VSD-I's range), no Screed for ACMs, etc. The blue range band, while small, was absolutely necessary to even touch the Rebels in many cases.

Then during Wave One, VSD-I looked a lot better than the VSD-II. The extra bit of blue dice range is nice, on paper, when in the mindset of fighting the long-range favored Rebels. However, in practice, those mobile Rebel ships are exactly the ones which are most able to keep you out of that very thin blue dice range. Unlike during Core, you now have another ship more suitably designed to take the fight to your enemy. And when you do fire off those 3 blue dice, an Evade or Brace usually renders it harmless.

Now that SW-7 Ions are coming out, though, I think it will be a different story. Being able to just point at a ship and say "3 damage" (or 4 with CF...) is going to be quite the asset. And with Captain Needa, you might even be at an advantage while at range. The VSD-I will continue to be an excellent choice, of course, but this cyclical nature amuses me.

Dominator is the best title in the game.

If you have 2 or 3 Vics, Dominator is kind of Biggs, if you know what I mean.

And if your opponent don't attack the Dominator for some reason, you will kill stuff. Especially if you are able to roll 2 extra blues in close range together with your blacks.

This Dominator + Wulff thing is mostly wishful thinking on the Vic-I. In practice shooting 2 red + 2 blue out the sides/rear is just an expensive way of killing yourself, because this is the point where the enemy happens to converge on you. On occasion it might work, but reliably getting 3-4 mega-strikes? Not had that happen to me ever.

Agreed, if the plan is to shoot +2 dice each round, every round (and twice per round with gunnery teams), just to shoot +2 dice each round every round, then no amount of Wulffing is going to save that ship. I view Wulff more as risk mitigation, he's definitely not an energizer battery. If I'm going to be spending shields, I want those shield losses to be as limited (or, in this case, replaceable) as possible. Usually I spam engineering anyway on my brawlers to keep them upright, so if the ship survives four rounds of fire, that's two extra Dominator shots--or four more shields for defensive purposes--than I'd have had otherwise (or a free re-roll on a CF token, or a free nav token to counter nasty crits, tractors, etc).

It's mostly a flanking deterrent. Dodonna's Pride on a Vic's tail is not fun. It's possible to dislodge it with just two red dice at close range (harder if it's managing to stay at medium range and has Mon Mothma, though I've never been able to do so effectively), but four dice gets it away from you right quick. Less effective against a Glad flanker (and I'm assuming the MC-30), but bottom line is if you're getting flanked, you want as many dice as possible, right? And Dominator is the only upgrade that gives boosts to dice out the rear that I'm aware of (other than spending your CF dial).

Am I generally going to spend the shields to add dice to my side/rear shots? No, not unless it's going to result in a kill, either because it gets me the last bit of damage I need immediately (rear/side), or because it will weaken things nicely for the front arc shot that's coming next (side). All I'm saying is that if I'm going to have a Vic, and if I'm going to spend 85 points, I think I'd rather have a Vic that's better at deterring flanking (and still deadly at close-quarters combat) than one without it.

Now that SW-7 Ions are coming out, though, I think it will be a different story. Being able to just point at a ship and say "3 damage" (or 4 with CF...) is going to be quite the asset. And with Captain Needa, you might even be at an advantage while at range. The VSD-I will continue to be an excellent choice, of course, but this cyclical nature amuses me.

VSD2 + Tactical Expert (6) + SW7 ions (5) + Slaved turrets (6) = 102 points

• The guaranteed focus fire dice from the tactical expert allows you to spam engineering / navigate commands as necessary.
• You can make the front fire 4 blue and 4 red dice with tactical expert and slaved turrets.
• All accuracies you don't need are converted to damage due to SW-7 ions

Then....

• Roll it up to 114 points if you want to add dominator , for a free +2 blue (remember you can spam engineering commands to replenish shields because of the tactical expert )
• If you do choose dominator, slaved turrets and tactical expert , you can shoot 3 red 3 blue out of your back arc at any time, or 3 red and 4 blue out of the side.

might as well be an ISD at that point

with the VSD-2, you want one of two upgrades

Dominator for the blue dice fiesta

Gunnery Team to take extra advantage of the extra range (because how many more ships than one will ever be crowding a VSD-1's black dice zone?)

might as well be an ISD at that point

Which in my mind is going to be the fundamental problem of the VSD-II once wave 2 drops. Yes the new upgrades (SW7 Ion Cannons, Tractor Beams) definitely offer you some nice new options, but the sheer goodness of a naked ISD-I or ISD-II (better hull, better shields, better base dice, better speed, better maneuverability, better Squadrons value) at a similar cost to a kitted-out VSD-II makes the VSD-II a hard sell.

Most definetly

Although the vsd 2 with gunnery clocks in at 92, which is 28 points under the isd 2 (35 points with gunnery)

Still, I do believe it'll be largely vsd-1 or bust this wave. What they do, between broad control & squadrons & tractor beams, they do well enough at an economic 73 point base.

Now that SW-7 Ions are coming out, though, I think it will be a different story. Being able to just point at a ship and say "3 damage" (or 4 with CF...) is going to be quite the asset. And with Captain Needa, you might even be at an advantage while at range. The VSD-I will continue to be an excellent choice, of course, but this cyclical nature amuses me.

VSD2 + Tactical Expert (6) + SW7 ions (5) + Slaved turrets (6) = 102 points

• The guaranteed focus fire dice from the tactical expert allows you to spam engineering / navigate commands as necessary.
• You can make the front fire 4 blue and 4 red dice with tactical expert and slaved turrets.
• All accuracies you don't need are converted to damage due to SW-7 ions

Then....

• Roll it up to 114 points if you want to add dominator , for a free +2 blue (remember you can spam engineering commands to replenish shields because of the tactical expert )
• If you do choose dominator, slaved turrets and tactical expert , you can shoot 3 red 3 blue out of your back arc at any time, or 3 red and 4 blue out of the side.

Thought about slaved turrets for VSDs ... I don't like them. I'll take Gunnery Teams in any case.

A VSD2 + Dominator + SW-7 + XI7 + Gunnery Teams could do well ... but lord thats expensive. 115 points. You should take an ISD instead.

l ... but lord thats expensive. 115 points. You should take an ISD instead.

In comparsion, honestly, how many people are going to take a Naked ISD though?