I am not saying that the VSD-II is overpriced at this point ...

The difference is 12 points more for the blue dice you get instead of the black dice.

I don't think thats worth it.

I would even take VSD-I if they would cost both he same.

What do you think?

Added range is pretty huge (150%) but eh

Squadrons and tbeams compensate for horrid nav chart just fine too

It isn't 150%. Its far less.

Check your range ruler again.

Maybe its I feel for the 300 point games the VSD-I are quite right priced but the VSD-II are too expensive to get them equipped with stuff.

Like you do the EMP pulse with the VSD and then an ISD takes over and gets the kill.

But right now I don't think they are worth it. Maybe if they had a blue swapped out for a red in the front cone instead this would be a different story.

It isn't 150%. Its far less.

Check your range ruler again.

Nope it's 150%

Med range is half close/long

So med over close is +50%, or 150% the range of black dice

Yeah, the medium range band is definitely an improvement over the black dice but it's not nearly as large a difference as you would think (as the range bands on the ruler seem to be roughly about 40%/20%/40%). The ion cannon upgrades are up until wave 2 not terribly impressive either compared to the ordnance upgrades. I would definitely say the VSD-II is superior overall to the VSD-I, but I'm not confident that it's 16% better, which is what the upgrade costs. It makes better use of Gunnery Teams, though, I'll give it that much.

Lore-wise, the VSD-II should have a navigation chart and speed similar to an Imperial-class Star Destroyer (as the engines were given a substantial upgrade from the older Republic-era VSD-I). If that were the case, well then you could sign me up for the VSD-II upgrade when I wanted more of a battleship and I'd use the VSD-Is as carriers you don't want to get close to or as the heavy hitters in a Screed list or some such.

A lot depends on your driving. How often do you get you blues in range vs your blacks? A theoretical expert player who can always manage to get the blacks in play are better off with the VSD1. Likewise an awful player who can't even get the blues in range is also better off with the VSD1. Then there are players where that range difference does make a difference.

A lot also depends on commonly played lists. If you always play against AF2s and never see anything but red from them, the VSD1 is better. If you're playing against Mr CR-90b the the VSD2 is better.

So it depends.

It isn't 150%. Its far less.

Check your range ruler again.

Nope it's 150%

Med range is half close/long

So med over close is +50%, or 150% the range of black dice

This is correct. Blue range is 150% of Black range.

I like VSDII's a lot, but it is quite hard to justify them at times. However, i find its almost impossible to get a VSD into Black range against competent Rebels, so the points generally do make themselves back for me.

Yeah, the medium range band is definitely an improvement over the black dice but it's not nearly as large a difference as you would think (as the range bands on the ruler seem to be roughly about 40%/20%/40%). The ion cannon upgrades are up until wave 2 not terribly impressive either compared to the ordnance upgrades. I would definitely say the VSD-II is superior overall to the VSD-I, but I'm not confident that it's 16% better, which is what the upgrade costs. It makes better use of Gunnery Teams, though, I'll give it that much. Lore-wise, the VSD-II should have a navigation chart and speed similar to an Imperial-class Star Destroyer (as the engines were given a substantial upgrade from the older Republic-era VSD-I). If that were the case, well then you could sign me up for the VSD-II upgrade when I wanted more of a battleship and I'd use the VSD-Is as carriers you don't want to get close to or as the heavy hitters in a Screed list or some such.

Yes if the VSD-II had a better movement profile in any kind, that would be worth it in any case.

It isn't 150%. Its far less.

Check your range ruler again.

Nope it's 150%

Med range is half close/long

So med over close is +50%, or 150% the range of black dice

This is correct. Blue range is 150% of Black range.

I like VSDII's a lot, but it is quite hard to justify them at times. However, i find its almost impossible to get a VSD into Black range against competent Rebels, so the points generally do make themselves back for me.

Yes yes ... I thought he meant +150% but its +50% ... which would be hilarious anyways ... but nm ...

I'd have loved a better nav chart for the VSD-II. Certainly would fit the fluff much better.

150% would be six reds

But yeah, it's a number the vsd-3 didn't come with an afmk2 nav chart. Would've been awesome and even justified in fluff

Apparently, the vsd2 was made to address the vsd1's issues with Being outrun by basically everything in the known galaxy. They didnt make many because the ISD came out soon after, which was just as fast but also biggerer and betterer

If the VSD-2 could turn 45° at speed 2 without using a navigation command this would be a huge improvement and totally worth the investment.

Greater range is good.

Accuracy is VERY good - who cares that black dice do more damage BEFORE it get braced?

Why not take one of both?

Well, I currently play 3 VSD-I

They did won me a medal.

The VSD-II did not. It's just not enough raw damage when you need it.

As a Predominantly Rebel player, I fear the VSD-II more than the VSD-I.

They take the same amount of killing, but the Damage ramps up quicker on the VSD-II, hitting at that longer range - it also cancels a lot more of my Defense Tokens.

VSD-I is a close range threat. When the game tells me "You are Faster and therefore Stay out of Range", you do what you can for it...

Greater range is good.

Accuracy is VERY good - who cares that black dice do more damage BEFORE it get braced?

Why not take one of both?

because you're taking it with the ISD-2

To answer the OP: No.

If anything, the Vic 1 is about 1 or 2 pts. too cheap. And the Gladiators about 2-3 pts. too cheap. This is just my intuitive "gut" feeling. I don't have a mathipedia to back me up on this.

my "gut" feeling is that they're 2-3 points too dead (seriously, GSDs pop like flies...or Nebs; esp at 400)

except Skreed, he always seem to be 1 point under-dead in all my matches against him

I'll get him someday...

I've not really had alot of thrilling times with either vsd. It's predominantly assault frigate opponents that outpace and outlast the Vic most times. Demolisher puts in work, but you run into diminishing returns with extra gladiators. I'd have been much more happy paying for a 3 red/ 1 blue/ 2 black and extra click on the first turn for speed two than just blue dice. (Basically how the isd 1 front arc is, which I really like)

VSD-II?

There's a two?

But seriously, I haven't bothered running a VSD-II since like, my second game as Imperials. My nice alternate art card goes totally unused.

The range increase from black to blue is miniscule for the potential damage lost not throwing black dice, and the price hike isn't worth the blue dice (to me at least).

As mentioned above, once you learn how to pilot the VSD and how to guide your opponent into its most dangerous zone by making every other option less desireable, it's a great ship that deals a lot of damage. Alternately, if you're running it as a carrier, those points you're blowing on blue dice could cover expanded hangars and corrupter.

We're the Empire, son. Black dice or GTFO.

Firesprays? We don't need their scum

Yeah, when I was first playing Armada beyond the demo game I swore I'd never use a VSD-I (as when I demoed it at Adepticon and was mistakenly given the VSD-I, which never got to shoot any black dice as the Rebels just snuck around me). Some playtesting later, I came back around to the VSD-I and found that in "real" games (300+ points) you can cover a lot more ground with multiple ships and you can herd enemy ships into the VSD-I's black dice range so long as you have competent more mobile threats (like Gladiators) to help push them there. I get off a black dice VSD-I salvo about 1-2 times per game, I'd say. Sometimes never, but usually in those circumstances I wouldn't have had blue dice either. I switched back to VSD-Is primarily and while I do play with VSD-IIs on occasion (like my most recent game) just to make sure I'm not getting too set in my ways, the VSD-I has been doing better for me point-for-point than the VSD-II.

With the ISD coming out in about a month (fingers crossed), I feel like the VSD-II is getting more competition for its "longer-ranged frontline battleship" role from both the ISD-I (which has a comprable front arc plus black dice) and the deluxe super-VSD-II, the ISD-II. Granted the ISDs are definitely a more sizeable points investments, but they're close enough to merit consideration. The VSD-I doesn't seem to have the same level of competition due to being so much cheaper.

For me, the inclusion of Tractor beams basically made the VSD-1 the go too (even moreso than it was before)

before, I basically only used the VSD-2 for Dominator (tons of fun, that). Now, I find myself just drawn to the VSD-1 w/beam. Stacking a ship down to speed 1-2 and then obliterating it with Imperial clunkers seems fun.

Since tractor beams work at distance 1-5, they're basically long range as is and should do wonders for enabling close range devastation

VSD-II + Overload Pulse + Screed is pretty solid, as it's a sure-fire way to exhaust out a target's defense tokens. If you can do this early in a round, especially against a big expensive target, it can be valuable.

Otherwise VSD-I does seem to be a better deal. At first I would only fly VSD-IIs, but then I realized just how small the blue die band actually is (I had been assuming each band was pretty even in width until I actually looked at the ruler), so situations where the Blue Dice enter the pool but Black Dice wouldn't have are relatively rare. There's certainly some use for them, but not a lot.

I think what also might make the VSD-II less appealing is that the VSD is kind of a weird beast, in the sense that the VSD-I and VSD-II both have the same number of dice, just different colors, and both have the same squadron value. AFMkII differ in both their number of dice and squadron values, so there is more at stake in deciding between the two variants than just dice color and cost.