Horrible decision.

The new damage deck was made for a reason and letting people tailor their lists to a specific damagedeck is imo not a good or optimal solution. Critical hits should be horrible in the majority of the instances.

Events I will TO will always enforce use of the new Damage Deck.

Best to tell them beforehand. I got chewed out for bringing the new damage deck, even though the TO changes the rules for time and round ending (not allowed to finish the round when time's called out, for example), and he doesn't post this in the FB page. Heck, he wasn't even familiar with the differences between the new and old...

I allways post all rules beforehand, but thanks for the tip

I just don't understand why they would bother updating it if it wasn't going to be required? Choice and strategy are great. But not on something like this.

You don't understand that FFG currently have 2 starters for the game in distribution that have different decks? And since they have different decks, and requiring the new one not only alienates new people who buy the wrong one because they have no clue, but also ends up making it impossible to sell the old starter since the competitive crowd will so kindly tell everyone that they MUST HAVE the new deck and it's only in the new starter. You don't understand that?

Horrible decision to leave ship builds partial immune to damage decks at thier discretion in organized play. The only way I find this ok is if your opponent provides your damage deck.

If that were the case, I'd have to look through all the cards to ensure you handed me a legal deck. and you'd want to do the same. Repeat every match.

That's no different then someone stacking a deck in thier favor right now And a bannable offense from all organized play.

In fact the more I think about that rule change the more I like it. It still doesn't require you to buy the new core but I am positive anyone crying about buying a new core set would do it anyway once they realize it will give them a slight advantage in organized play yet removes thie whining about being forced to buy it.

Nope never paying £25 for a stack of small cards.

No interest in the ties, don't need the cardboard and can proxy the cards and it's against my nature to spend money on stuff just to throw it away.

So you are not even a tournament player (proxies are illegal in tournament settings) but have gone out of your way to intentionally mess with the tournament environment?

Wow. Thanks.

And your post post screams how the competitive tournament players think their chosen play style should rule over all!

I'm loving all the whine and moaning coming from the tourney crowd over this. Pay back really is a female canine. Maybe you tournament people should think harder before you go trying to inject your tournament play style into other peoples casual play because that's what you people always do. Now karma has come to roost in another game for the competitive crowd!

Horrible decision to leave ship builds partial immune to damage decks at thier discretion in organized play. The only way I find this ok is if your opponent provides your damage deck.

If that were the case, I'd have to look through all the cards to ensure you handed me a legal deck. and you'd want to do the same. Repeat every match.

That's no different then someone stacking a deck in thier favor right now And a bannable offense from all organized play.

In fact the more I think about that rule change the more I like it. It still doesn't require you to buy the new core but I am positive anyone crying about buying a new core set would do it anyway once they realize it will give them a slight advantage in organized play yet removes thie whining about being forced to buy it.

Nope never paying £25 for a stack of small cards.

No interest in the ties, don't need the cardboard and can proxy the cards and it's against my nature to spend money on stuff just to throw it away.

So you are not even a tournament player (proxies are illegal in tournament settings) but have gone out of your way to intentionally mess with the tournament environment?

Wow. Thanks.

And your post post screams how the competitive tournament players think their chosen play style should rule over all!

I'm loving all the whine and moaning coming from the tourney crowd over this. Pay back really is a female canine. Maybe you tournament people should think harder before you go trying to inject your tournament play style into other peoples casual play because that's what you people always do. Now karma has come to roost in another game for the competitive crowd!

Troll. That doesn't make an ounce of sense. Casuals can do anything they want all the time. This change and the tournament rules in general are only for competetive gamers. Even the faq is mostly for tournament clarity as casual players don't need to get the rule exactly correct regarding any difference between the original printing and the updated properly balanced version therein.

#onedecktorulethemall

And your post post screams how the competitive tournament players think their chosen play style should rule over all!

I'm loving all the whine and moaning coming from the tourney crowd over this. Pay back really is a female canine. Maybe you tournament people should think harder before you go trying to inject your tournament play style into other peoples casual play because that's what you people always do. Now karma has come to roost in another game for the competitive crowd!

You somehow fail to comprehend that the official rules for tournament play has absolutely no effect on casual players.

If you play in a local club, store or at home, you can arrange any houserules you fell like, so you are not forced to have the new damagedeck.

No matter what rules FFG make for the competetive crowd, casual players can allways make up their own rules and scenarioes to have fun, and noone in the tournament crowd will have a problem with that.

The problem is that the tournament crowd can houserule themself out of this debacle FFg created, and we have a fair right to be dissapointed about their turnaround. After a official ruling that the New DD would be mandatory people bought the new starterset (a lot of would have anyway, but at least the Scum players has a valid complaint) and then they reverse the ruling, amking the purchase redundant for some players.

Why you are trying to create or support a schism between CAsual and Tournament players i have no idea, but it makes you come off as kind of a ass.

Yeah the phantom change totes didn't come as a result of tournament players comments.

Competitive play absolutely has an impact on casual play, it's only just that it works the other way around given the competitive scene is a fraction the size of the casual players like every other miniatures game.

Yeah the phantom change totes didn't come as a result of tournament players comments.

Competitive play absolutely has an impact on casual play, it's only just that it works the other way around given the competitive scene is a fraction the size of the casual players like every other miniatures game.

The difference is that the change to the Phantom was an change to achive better balance and make it less of an autowin against low PS ships. Something that benefits the casual crowd as well (unless the casual crowd think iti is cool to have OP Phantoms)

The reason that competetive players has a an impact on the game is that they play the game more extensively and with a different mindset where issues are prone to be discovered.

It´s only natural that the tournament players discover these issues and point them out.

Presumably FFG will offer refunds to everybody that bought a new core set just toi use the damage deck we were told WOULD be 100% required for organised play? Happy to give the box and models back, which i didnt want anyway.

Presumably FFG will offer refunds to everybody that bought a new core set just toi use the damage deck we were told WOULD be 100% required for organised play? Happy to give the box and models back, which i didnt want anyway.

To use the arguments of one side of this debate, it's only a couple of bucks. Sell the rest on ebay.

Presumably FFG will offer refunds to everybody that bought a new core set just toi use the damage deck we were told WOULD be 100% required for organised play? Happy to give the box and models back, which i didnt want anyway.

To use the arguments of one side of this debate, it's only a couple of bucks. Sell the rest on ebay.

Or since he didn't want any of it he only opened the damage deck out of it, so the cardboard hasn't been punched and everything is still pristine in the original packaging with the deck in sleeves now. He could just return it since it's basically factory packaged and new and he kept his receipt.

Why couldn't FFG just sell the new damage deck, or include it in the new tourney kits so we could still have everyone using the new damage deck without forcing everyone to get the new core set?

Definitely not a well thought outcome that we're dealing with now (people getting to pick their damage deck? Seriously?), seems borderline pointless to have made a new damage deck with the new ruling.

Games at local clubs in my area are $5 3 round tournaments that start at 7pm and follow the rules pretty much to the letter. If we meet the threshold for 4 rounds we typically play 3 anyways but that's it. Everything is as the FAQ states.

Casual players that want to just get a game often show up to those because it's the easiest way to play.

It has a huge effect on casual players.

Someone's academy pilot might just draw the no-EPT crit next time you play the game. It's not the end of the world.

And your post post screams how the competitive tournament players think their chosen play style should rule over all!

I'm loving all the whine and moaning coming from the tourney crowd over this. Pay back really is a female canine. Maybe you tournament people should think harder before you go trying to inject your tournament play style into other peoples casual play because that's what you people always do. Now karma has come to roost in another game for the competitive crowd!

You somehow fail to comprehend that the official rules for tournament play has absolutely no effect on casual players.

If you play in a local club, store or at home, you can arrange any houserules you fell like, so you are not forced to have the new damagedeck

In my experience that is a load of horse dung.

If you go to play at a club you will most likely find that people will be playing with the most current rules.

The most current rules is in effect the correct set of rules and most people who play miniature / boardgames will want to play their game correctly.

The most current rules is in effect the correct set of rules and most people who play miniature / boardgames will want to play their game correctly.

Pretty much.

As a casual player who just plays with friends, I went out of my way to acquire the new deck so this ruling is pretty poop .

Signed, game design should trump commercial considerations imo, whether those concerns be to try and force people to spend MORE money or to allow them to spend less. Alex has given some very good interviews and explainations on why the new deck is better and fixes some issues with the old deck based on more recent game design decisions. This feels like bowing to people complaining about having to spend more money....look at most other active tournament wargames and having to spend 30 dollars in three years to get the latest "rules" seems pretty reasonable, compared to new rules sets, expansions and army books youd likely to have to get from many other games.

....look at most other active tournament wargames and having to spend 30 dollars in three years to get the latest "rules" seems pretty reasonable, compared to new rules sets, expansions and army books youd likely to have to get from many other games.

But we aren't playing those other games, in part because of that.

As if you'd accept having to get a new driver's license because some new laws have gone into effect.

I also honestly don't see why it is seen as a bad thing that FFG listens to complaints they receive from their customer base, either directly or through retailers. Don't you want them to pay attention to their customers or do you want only to listen to the people you agree with?

FFG has made a decision based on what they feel is best for the game, long term. You might not agree with them, they might turn out to be wrong, but there you are.

How dare they listen to complaints and 'bow' to them. What would you rather have them do, sit in an ivory tower on top of a pile of money, fingers in their ears and ignoring their customers?

....look at most other active tournament wargames and having to spend 30 dollars in three years to get the latest "rules" seems pretty reasonable, compared to new rules sets, expansions and army books youd likely to have to get from many other games.

FFG has made a decision based on what they feel is best for the game, long term. You might not agree with them, they might turn out to be wrong, but there you are.

Yeah changing the rules so that people can use a deck that FFG has already said is worse than the new one is "best for the game". Very funny.

I don't think a petition will get anywhere. What I would strongly recommend instead is getting in touch with FFG's Organized Play group directly. They can be found at [email protected], or on Facebook .

If you decide to reach out, be polite. Explain that you're an X-wing tournament player, and that you're disappointed in the ruling. Briefly-- briefly --explain why you think it's a detriment to the game. Don't be rude or offensive, and keep it to a few readable sentences rather than an essay.

This deserves a thread of its own to make it visible.

I just send amail with this wording. Hope it is concidered polite enough

Hi

I am writing to you in regards to your new decision to let players decide what damage deck to use in competetive tournamnnet play.

I really hope you will reconcider that stance and once again enforce the new damage deck for competetive play.

I could give you a long list of my own arguments but Alex Davy himself made the point much better, than I could, when he was on the Scum and Villany podcast:

http://www.podcastgarden.com/login/audio-7/7799/Episode18AlexDavy_final.mp3

Paraphrasing he said that the idea was to create an even and balanced damagedeck. One that that would make it relevant for all ships to get a critical hit and make it more or less equally relevant no matter what squad you fly with. People should fear a critical hit no matter if they are rookie or named pilots and whether they have a secondary weaponupgrade or not.

What happend that made you throw that reasoning out the window? and could you please rethink it and revert to your original descicion. stick to your guns, it was the right call to make and nothing prevents people from using their old damage deck in casual play.

Also, Blinded pilot, the same card in both decks, has different effects wich is really a mess.

Best regards

Poul Holmelund

I got a reply to the above, so if you feel teh same way, please send them emails:

Hello Poul,

I would be surprised if player's complaints were the reason this change was introduced. Maybe the idea was that no game can be obsolete basically out ofthe box, and they didn't want to change the old core set's contents.

That news article sure gave me the feeling I was reading WD, though.

....look at most other active tournament wargames and having to spend 30 dollars in three years to get the latest "rules" seems pretty reasonable, compared to new rules sets, expansions and army books youd likely to have to get from many other games.

FFG has made a decision based on what they feel is best for the game, long term. You might not agree with them, they might turn out to be wrong, but there you are.

Yeah changing the rules so that people can use a deck that FFG has already said is worse than the new one is "best for the game". Very funny.

It is if it means it will enable more people to compete and bring more people in. Is that really so hard to understand? It is if it means people won't walk away from the game, which is a signal that has been mentioned in these topics a couple of times. It is if it means game stores will keep the game on the shelves.

I would be surprised if player's complaints were the reason this change was introduced. Maybe the idea was that no game can be obsolete basically out ofthe box, and they didn't want to change the old core set's contents.

That news article sure gave me the feeling I was reading WD, though.

But GW dont back down on their decisions, or talk to their customers, or have any form of communication going to them at all.

Trying to force the TFA core on everyone was the GW move, this is their redemption.

I would be surprised if player's complaints were the reason this change was introduced. Maybe the idea was that no game can be obsolete basically out ofthe box, and they didn't want to change the old core set's contents.

That news article sure gave me the feeling I was reading WD, though.

But GW dont back down on their decisions, or talk to their customers, or have any form of communication going to them at all.

Trying to force the TFA core on everyone was the GW move, this is their redemption.

....look at most other active tournament wargames and having to spend 30 dollars in three years to get the latest "rules" seems pretty reasonable, compared to new rules sets, expansions and army books youd likely to have to get from many other games.

But we aren't playing those other games, in part because of that.

As if you'd accept having to get a new driver's license because some new laws have gone into effect.

I also honestly don't see why it is seen as a bad thing that FFG listens to complaints they receive from their customer base, either directly or through retailers. Don't you want them to pay attention to their customers or do you want only to listen to the people you agree with?

FFG has made a decision based on what they feel is best for the game, long term. You might not agree with them, they might turn out to be wrong, but there you are.

How dare they listen to complaints and 'bow' to them. What would you rather have them do, sit in an ivory tower on top of a pile of money, fingers in their ears and ignoring their customers?

To be fair the people debating that the new deck should be used for premier events are customers too.

Most of those in favor of the new deck only are passionate about the game and want to make sure that its balanced for everyone who plays at a highly competitive level. Just to reiterate what I've said before, FFG was clearly excited about this new deck because of the balance issues with the old one and they couldn't wait to see it in action. The point isn't about who doesn't want to buy what but making sure the efforts that they made to make competitive play consistent and, again, balanced doesn't go to waste.

Giving people more time to ensure that they will have a new deck for events is fine and it would be great to see the deck as a stand alone product but the way they presented it was a bit odd. Saying that they are giving people this great choice of two decks is just a disguise and what they are really saying is very different.

I'm sure that they are considering when they should only allow the new deck at premier events and it will only be a matter of time.

Remember, the object is to get FFG to discard your opponent's opinion like the trash it is.

The email I've sent to FFG:

Recently you've reversed the decision to mandate the new damage deck. This is a good thing.

This is a good thing because for the past few weeks, people that were interested in the game had to be told by me and other regular X-Wing players NOT to buy the game yet and wait until the new core set's damage deck was the only legal one on January 1st. This was off putting for many of them.

It is also off putting to players that have already doubled up on the old core set and taken a break from the game. When they hear that on January 1st the /core sets/ they already own would no longer function as a /core set/, they would groan and say, "ugh".

Lately I had someone show up to a $5 Friday 3 round X-Wing tournament with a bunch of friends. He had enough damage decks in total to supply all of his friends with them, but not enough old decks for all of his friends. In the end, his new player friends decided not to enter the $5 tournament, albeit mostly because they were super new to the game.

I have 3 core sets for Android: Netrunner. I don't play it often, but it's a fine game and I'm casually into it. If all of a sudden my core set cards were no longer legal I'd no longer want to purchase anymore Netrunner cards.

The NDDOP's (New Damage Deck Only Proponents) would have you believe that Academy Pilot players using the old damage deck to avoid 1/7th of crit effects is the end of the world. They're wrong. Making a /core set/ for your game no longer function as an actual /core/ set is a slap in the face to players who buy the old core set unaware of the ruling.

I commend you guys for changing your minds and coming to reason on this. The NDDOP's are wrong on this. The decision to make damage decks a part of squad building much like how choosing obstacles is now a part of squad building is a good one. Hell, playing a 55/58 point Super Dash and picking 3 large debris fields has wayyyyyyy more of an effect on the game than an academy pilot player using the old damage deck to negate 1/7th of crits.

Sincerely,

ParaGoomba "I was right to incessantly complain about the Phantom and Turretwing" Slayer

Why would you tell anyone not to buy the game? That makes no sense at all. You could have just told them to start with the new coreset or told them they would need to get the new coreset in january if they are interested in tournament play.

Instead you misinformed them. Bravo!