Game balance is game balance... this isn't like the mats (which are garbage) or dials (which are irrelevant) rulings, the new deck was a competitive balance patch. You don't see *insert competitive vidja game here" letting you choose between 3.xx and 3.x1 Paladin Face Smasher classes, right?

Their mats are not "garbage". I went to a gaming night recently, and all everyone brought were paper or vinyl "mats". They all sucked.They were either bent, wavey, too slick or even ripped and torn. Really? I brought my starfield mat out (which was rolled up and stored for at least two months). Voila! Flat clean surface. I like FFG's mats. Don't knock the rock! Anyway, I'm using the new damage deck. Done deal.

Game balance is game balance... this isn't like the mats (which are garbage) or dials (which are irrelevant) rulings, the new deck was a competitive balance patch. You don't see *insert competitive vidja game here" letting you choose between 3.xx and 3.x1 Paladin Face Smasher classes, right?

Their mats are not "garbage". I went to a gaming night recently, and all everyone brought were paper or vinyl "mats". They all sucked.They were either bent, wavey, too slick or even ripped and torn. Really? I brought my starfield mat out (which was rolled up and stored for at least two months). Voila! Flat clean surface. I like FFG's mats. Don't knock the rock! Anyway, I'm using the new damage deck. Done deal.

I think he was saying the "official playmats only" ruling was garbage, not the product itself.

The worst thing is that the lead designer was on a podcast telling the excact reason for a new deck, was that the old one was not balanced.

The worst thing is that the lead designer was on a podcast telling the excact reason for a new deck, was that the old one was not balanced.

This. This is what makes me wonder if the right hand is not talking to the left at FFG. People had just come to accept what was happening in January. No more big discussions about it, then BOOM! Everything is thrown into turmoil again.

STOP FLIP-FLOPPING FFG. Stick to your guns!

The only way ffg could solve the original issues would have been to hand out the new damage deck for free upon entering a tournamwnt.

Not really. FFG has a Print-on-demand service. This seems like a pretty good use for it. People who want to play competitively but don't want to buy the TFA core can then get a POD damage deck through FFG to stay current.

Set a date of Jan. 1 for the switchover. That will give people plenty of time to drop the $5 or whatever for a new damage deck or go in on someone else's second TFA core or buy one from Miniature Market or something. Bottom line is there are plenty of ways to get a new damage deck that wouldn't necessarily cost $40.

The worst thing is that the lead designer was on a podcast telling the excact reason for a new deck, was that the old one was not balanced.

This. This is what makes me wonder if the right hand is not talking to the left at FFG. People had just come to accept what was happening in January. No more big discussions about it, then BOOM! Everything is thrown into turmoil again.

STOP FLIP-FLOPPING FFG. Stick to your guns!

Absolutely.

If they want to give people more time to update their damage deck at casual or league events that's fine. However at premier events game balance should be a priority and thus having people use the same updated damage deck is imperative.

Game balance is game balance... this isn't like the mats (which are garbage) or dials (which are irrelevant) rulings, the new deck was a competitive balance patch. You don't see *insert competitive vidja game here" letting you choose between 3.xx and 3.x1 Paladin Face Smasher classes, right?

Their mats are not "garbage". I went to a gaming night recently, and all everyone brought were paper or vinyl "mats". They all sucked.They were either bent, wavey, too slick or even ripped and torn. Really? I brought my starfield mat out (which was rolled up and stored for at least two months). Voila! Flat clean surface. I like FFG's mats. Don't knock the rock! Anyway, I'm using the new damage deck. Done deal.

If FFG had produced a printed mat with some actual texture, you wouldn't hear me knocking it, but compared to the yoga mats I play on the official ice-skating rink mats are hot garbage.

Game balance is game balance... this isn't like the mats (which are garbage) or dials (which are irrelevant) rulings, the new deck was a competitive balance patch. You don't see *insert competitive vidja game here" letting you choose between 3.xx and 3.x1 Paladin Face Smasher classes, right?

Their mats are not "garbage". I went to a gaming night recently, and all everyone brought were paper or vinyl "mats". They all sucked.They were either bent, wavey, too slick or even ripped and torn. Really? I brought my starfield mat out (which was rolled up and stored for at least two months). Voila! Flat clean surface. I like FFG's mats. Don't knock the rock! Anyway, I'm using the new damage deck. Done deal.

If FFG had produced a printed mat with some actual texture, you wouldn't hear me knocking it, but compared to the yoga mats I play on the official ice-skating rink mats are hot garbage.

I stand corrected.

Wasn't there fairly recently a big hoopla about being /forced/ to use the new deck and being /forced/ to buy a new core set?

Now that we no longer have to do that, it's suddenly a big deal?

I'm not sure why you think it's the same people complaining in both cases.

Did you guys oppose the legalization of debris fields? BUT IT'S NOT FAIR IF I'M FLYING 4 OBSIDIANS AND 4 ACADEMY PILOTS WHY WOULD I EVER PICK THE LARGE ASTEROIDS?!

Choosing your obstacles isn't the most interesting part of squad-building, but there's more depth than damage deck selection. Sure, you don't want the biggest asteroids if you're flying a swarm, but do you take the the smallest asteroids to maximize the open space, or the larger but less impactful debris fields, or a mix of the two? Different players might come to different conclusions.

Also, and this is important, your obstacle selection affects both players. Any advantages you gain from the obstacles you bring are there for your opponent to exploit as well. There's interaction there, and the potential for meta calls (are the benefits of bringing three debris fields worth giving an opponent's Dash complete freedom on the board?).

None of that is true of picking your damage deck. There's no player interaction, no predicting what you'll go up against or what opponents will give your squad trouble. There's nothing more than a single, binary choice: A or B, which one is statistically better for my squad? It doesn't add anything valuable to the game, and it hinders what many of us saw as a genuine improvement.

FFG, this is a bad move...

Overall it was the lesser of two evils I suppose. There was so much butt-hurt about being 'forced' into buying a new core set just for a damage deck. (even though there are many ways to get one nowadays)

It keeps the Red Core Set relevant so that store owners can promote both to new players. (instead of "you probably want the blue one going forward")

It gives players more choice, sure the old deck is sucky but who cares.

See, that's the thing, though. The deck is NOT REQUIRED to PLAY the game. It's only required for competitions and I really don't think that every X-Wing player out there is a competitive player. They can play the game with the old deck just fine! People can still buy the first core set and really get their money's worth.

... and when you play at home and with friends; NONE... OF... THIS ... MAT-TERS-SSsss.

:lol:

SING ALONG WITH ME GANG.

Yes! Exactly!

Can we decide which large ship barrel roll rules we'd rather use too?

FFG, this is a bad move...

Yeah it is and even a teddy bear like me has got over their rules erratas and flip-flopping. I like most of the cards and ships and other paper, and I am not about to toss that all out; just because these design team kids want to try to keep their professional gamers happy at tournaments.

Nah. I quite 40k in 2000 for the same reasons.

It is to much **** static in my little happy STAR WARS TOYS place.

Overall it was the lesser of two evils I suppose. There was so much butt-hurt about being 'forced' into buying a new core set just for a damage deck. (even though there are many ways to get one nowadays)

It keeps the Red Core Set relevant so that store owners can promote both to new players. (instead of "you probably want the blue one going forward")

It gives players more choice, sure the old deck is sucky but who cares.

See, that's the thing, though. The deck is NOT REQUIRED to PLAY the game. It's only required for competitions and I really don't think that every X-Wing player out there is a competitive player. They can play the game with the old deck just fine! People can still buy the first core set and really get their money's worth.

... and when you play at home and with friends; NONE... OF... THIS ... MAT-TERS-SSsss.

:lol:

SING ALONG WITH ME GANG.

Yes! Exactly!

Well you say that but friends have been pressuring me to buy the new core so they can use the new deck, but I've stuck to my guns and now don't need to buy the new core.

It's saved me money and the trouble of throwing away the unwanted parts of the core.

Overall it was the lesser of two evils I suppose. There was so much butt-hurt about being 'forced' into buying a new core set just for a damage deck. (even though there are many ways to get one nowadays)

It keeps the Red Core Set relevant so that store owners can promote both to new players. (instead of "you probably want the blue one going forward")

It gives players more choice, sure the old deck is sucky but who cares.

See, that's the thing, though. The deck is NOT REQUIRED to PLAY the game. It's only required for competitions and I really don't think that every X-Wing player out there is a competitive player. They can play the game with the old deck just fine! People can still buy the first core set and really get their money's worth.

... and when you play at home and with friends; NONE... OF... THIS ... MAT-TERS-SSsss.

:lol:

SING ALONG WITH ME GANG.

Yes! Exactly!

In my head it is to the tune of Freddy singing "Any Way The Wind Blows..."

Kinda sad... kinda funny.

Overall it was the lesser of two evils I suppose. There was so much butt-hurt about being 'forced' into buying a new core set just for a damage deck. (even though there are many ways to get one nowadays)

It keeps the Red Core Set relevant so that store owners can promote both to new players. (instead of "you probably want the blue one going forward")

It gives players more choice, sure the old deck is sucky but who cares.

See, that's the thing, though. The deck is NOT REQUIRED to PLAY the game. It's only required for competitions and I really don't think that every X-Wing player out there is a competitive player. They can play the game with the old deck just fine! People can still buy the first core set and really get their money's worth.

... and when you play at home and with friends; NONE... OF... THIS ... MAT-TERS-SSsss.

:lol:

SING ALONG WITH ME GANG.

Yes! Exactly!

Well you say that but friends have been pressuring me to buy the new core so they can use the new deck, but I've stuck to my guns and now don't need to buy the new core.

It's saved me money and the trouble of throwing away the unwanted parts of the core.

Were you playing in official tournaments? Wait, regional season is over. Then what did it matter which one you used? The problem isn't with requiring the new deck for tournament play, it's people like your "friends" who are pressuring you to play in a way that the rules just don't support. The rulebook in the TFA core clearly says you can use either one and that if all you have is the first one, that's fine. You were totally justified in not buying one until next year. And even next year, you wouldn't have to buy one unless you were going to tournaments. The problem isn't with the rules -- it's with some people.

Overall it was the lesser of two evils I suppose. There was so much butt-hurt about being 'forced' into buying a new core set just for a damage deck. (even though there are many ways to get one nowadays)

It keeps the Red Core Set relevant so that store owners can promote both to new players. (instead of "you probably want the blue one going forward")

It gives players more choice, sure the old deck is sucky but who cares.

See, that's the thing, though. The deck is NOT REQUIRED to PLAY the game. It's only required for competitions and I really don't think that every X-Wing player out there is a competitive player. They can play the game with the old deck just fine! People can still buy the first core set and really get their money's worth.

... and when you play at home and with friends; NONE... OF... THIS ... MAT-TERS-SSsss.

:lol:

SING ALONG WITH ME GANG.

Yes! Exactly!

Well you say that but friends have been pressuring me to buy the new core so they can use the new deck, but I've stuck to my guns and now don't need to buy the new core.

It's saved me money and the trouble of throwing away the unwanted parts of the core.

Were you playing in official tournaments? Wait, regional season is over. Then what did it matter which one you used? The problem isn't with requiring the new deck for tournament play, it's people like your "friends" who are pressuring you to play in a way that the rules just don't support. The rulebook in the TFA core clearly says you can use either one and that if all you have is the first one, that's fine. You were totally justified in not buying one until next year. And even next year, you wouldn't have to buy one unless you were going to tournaments. The problem isn't with the rules -- it's with some people.

Just like with the recent flip-flaps with TLT and some other stuff it is (WAS) annoying to see on our forum.

Nah.

Three (at least) errata faq thingies in the last month?

Nopes... don't cares no mores.

I done tuned out of it.

Overall it was the lesser of two evils I suppose. There was so much butt-hurt about being 'forced' into buying a new core set just for a damage deck. (even though there are many ways to get one nowadays)

It keeps the Red Core Set relevant so that store owners can promote both to new players. (instead of "you probably want the blue one going forward")

It gives players more choice, sure the old deck is sucky but who cares.

See, that's the thing, though. The deck is NOT REQUIRED to PLAY the game. It's only required for competitions and I really don't think that every X-Wing player out there is a competitive player. They can play the game with the old deck just fine! People can still buy the first core set and really get their money's worth.

... and when you play at home and with friends; NONE... OF... THIS ... MAT-TERS-SSsss. :lol:

SING ALONG WITH ME GANG.

Yes! Exactly!

Well you say that but friends have been pressuring me to buy the new core so they can use the new deck, but I've stuck to my guns and now don't need to buy the new core.

It's saved me money and the trouble of throwing away the unwanted parts of the core.

Were you playing in official tournaments? Wait, regional season is over. Then what did it matter which one you used? The problem isn't with requiring the new deck for tournament play, it's people like your "friends" who are pressuring you to play in a way that the rules just don't support. The rulebook in the TFA core clearly says you can use either one and that if all you have is the first one, that's fine. You were totally justified in not buying one until next year. And even next year, you wouldn't have to buy one unless you were going to tournaments. The problem isn't with the rules -- it's with some people.

They are obsessed with staying current, it's because of that mentality I stopped playing 40k I outright refused to play the mess that was 7th ed.

I don't live near any flgs so it's play friends or nothing which means making compromises, I don't want to stop playing x-wing but I really don't want to waste money on the new core either.

Now I can be current and not waste money which is win win for me.

Overall it was the lesser of two evils I suppose. There was so much butt-hurt about being 'forced' into buying a new core set just for a damage deck. (even though there are many ways to get one nowadays)

It keeps the Red Core Set relevant so that store owners can promote both to new players. (instead of "you probably want the blue one going forward")

It gives players more choice, sure the old deck is sucky but who cares.

See, that's the thing, though. The deck is NOT REQUIRED to PLAY the game. It's only required for competitions and I really don't think that every X-Wing player out there is a competitive player. They can play the game with the old deck just fine! People can still buy the first core set and really get their money's worth.

... and when you play at home and with friends; NONE... OF... THIS ... MAT-TERS-SSsss. :lol:

SING ALONG WITH ME GANG.

Yes! Exactly!

Well you say that but friends have been pressuring me to buy the new core so they can use the new deck, but I've stuck to my guns and now don't need to buy the new core.

It's saved me money and the trouble of throwing away the unwanted parts of the core.

Were you playing in official tournaments? Wait, regional season is over. Then what did it matter which one you used? The problem isn't with requiring the new deck for tournament play, it's people like your "friends" who are pressuring you to play in a way that the rules just don't support. The rulebook in the TFA core clearly says you can use either one and that if all you have is the first one, that's fine. You were totally justified in not buying one until next year. And even next year, you wouldn't have to buy one unless you were going to tournaments. The problem isn't with the rules -- it's with some people.

They are obsessed with staying current, it's because of that mentality I stopped playing 40k I outright refused to play the mess that was 7th ed.

I don't live near any flgs so it's play friends or nothing which means making compromises, I don't want to stop playing x-wing but I really don't want to waste money on the new core either.

Now I can be current and not waste money which is win win for me.

I can see your point of view and I think your friends need to realize that they aren't playing in premier events. In that respect following the rules is still important to maintain a fair game state but them saying they need the new deck is silly. If they want to use the new deck in casual play they can buy it, otherwise it doesn't matter.

The point is needing to keep the game balanced for highly competitive settings.

I'm doing a 180 on this. I was a bit annoyed by the forced new deck at the time but, although I'm still yet to buy TFA core I have looked through a friends and see that it's a much better deck than the old one. FFZg should stick to their guns on this and keep it mandatory!

This decision by FFG is GREAT . It was a pretty low move to require everybody to buy a new core set just to participate in organized play. After already spending hundreds of dollars on this great game, I didn't want to be forced to spend more on a $40 core set full of ships I don't want just to get a new damage deck. (I have very little interest in J.J. Abrams's new fan film, because of Disney's decision to wholesale scrap the "expanded universe" and replace it with their own series of books, comics, and films).

Amazon Price Tag: $24,49! Buy, sell the Ships and you will have it for free! If you can´t ZERO Dollar you should quit this game!

Can we decide which large ship barrel roll rules we'd rather use too?

Ya, I'd like to use the old TIE Phantom rules too please.

I vote NEW DAMAGE DECK ***ONLY***

---

That we're even fighting for something FFG convinced us made absolute sense (one dmg deck (TFA core version)) makes zero sense (dual dmg decks). How is anyone complaining about being forced to buy a new TFA Coreset even worth pandering to in the first place?

I vote NEW DAMAGE DECK ***ONLY***

---

That we're even fighting for something FFG convinced us made absolute sense (one dmg deck (TFA core version)) makes zero sense (dual dmg decks). How is anyone complaining about being forced to buy a new TFA Coreset even worth pandering to in the first place?

Because i'm awesome and they love me for all the ideas i've given them.

Was that not clear?

I vote NEW DAMAGE DECK ***ONLY***

---

That we're even fighting for something FFG convinced us made absolute sense (one dmg deck (TFA core version)) makes zero sense (dual dmg decks). How is anyone complaining about being forced to buy a new TFA Coreset even worth pandering to in the first place?

Because i'm awesome and they love me for all the ideas i've given them.

Was that not clear?

I read your "not gonna waste time/money on new Coreset just to get a mandatory dmg deck" post and immediately thought about mailing you a dmg deck. No kidding. Yes, I would rather send you my 3rd (I have 3 old cores and 3 new cores) new_damage_deck than see you post all this nonsense. PM me your PO box and/or nearest Arby's and I'll send you one.

This is not a joke.