Spoiler Alert.

Our GM just put us into a very tricky spot. We just finished the introductions a the House of Dust and Ash, and we have exactly one day before the auction begins. A dataslate found its way to our room, on it was a video of a man in shadow with a distorted voice, telling us that he knows who we are and that we are working for the inquisition. And if we dont pay him a large sum of money and clear his name with the inquisition that he will reveal our identities at the auction. There are no tech-priests in this group, and we have no idea how to handle this.

How about play along for the time being and then double cross the person?

How can you clear his name if you know nothing about him? Leverage this big detail and play along and hope he tips his hand. Remember that you're all inside and although he could reveal your identities he wouldn't be able to escape either.

And plus, it's Marr's cash, not yours. The Thrones shouldn't be a huge deal, especially if you cross him later. So yeah, what Tybalt said.

This would also be a good time to cozy up to the authorities so when the time comes you have their trust (at least somewhat).

I like your GM. That's a good one.

However, if my players were in a bind, I'd be rather upset if they were asking for advice on these forums or from anybody who is not a player. I give problems to the players, not the world wide internet community. That's me, other GMs will have their own opinions.

Nojo509 said:

To be fair, asking on the Internet is sort of like asking about relationship advice along the lines of "Well my girlfriend has been acting kind of strange recently. Is she cheating on me?"

No one knows the girlfriend/GM in this sort of scenario so it would be impossible to give accurate or even effective advice on what to do. We have no idea what kind of plan the OP's gamemaster is up to, so the best thing any advice in this thread could do is perhaps making the OP think of something he or she wouldn't have thought of. But that is mere speculation since no one can really predict how the OP is thinking.

So as long as no one actually goes out of their way to spoil House of Dust and Ash by revealing stuff that will most likely happen in the adventure, the topic will just be a matter of speculation that will hardly have any real impact on the game...

Nojo509 said:

The only real reason i posted it is because we are indeed, stuck. The group is consistant of three acolytes who are actual inquisition, and another 4 who were seconded to us (they were brought on as last min players). Since in-game we dont trust the 4 new pcs, we have been brainstorming and comming up with nothing except play along untill we can find him, then putting a high calaber bolt round in his eye socket.

You really ask us what to do in this situation? You know what....i suspect you don´t want to fall for a trap the GM has cleverly put in the game for you. Which translates to me that you´re a player that wants to win.

To be honest: As a weary GM i can not tell you in words how epically tired i am of players that want to win in a roleplaying game. I am tired beyond words.

Your GM invested a part of himself for your fun, for the fun of all players in your group, to tell a good story. And instead of immersing into the story, contributing to it (maybe by doing something unexpected), you search for a workaround on the internet.

Because all you came up with is : "nothing except play along untill we can find him, then putting a high calaber bolt round in his eye socket." Well, its not a very sophisticated solution, but i´ve seen it happen often. The Players didn´t get the clue or missed a remark, but the story will advance anyway. You are not stuck. You will not even be stuck when the identity of your characters is revealed and all your characters are killed in result.

IF that happens, you make new characters and you´ll have other adventures. Everything will continue and nobody will be stuck.

Ikkaan said:

Hey hey, all he's doing is trying to plan ahead. The very structure of the game is organized around the plans the GM comes up with and the players reactions to them. Why are the Acolytes following their orders? Is it loyalty to the Inquisition? Self preservation? Hope for advancement? All these things are reasons they would want to live. There is nothing inherently wrong with the "double cross" plan. After all, this is covert drama in the grim darkness of the far future. That seems to be a reasonable plan to go on compared to blowing your cover. After all, you're Throne agents, not Stormtroopers. Now, the GM will likely have his bases covered but it still gives the players something to do.

You seem to suggest that the players should want to fall into traps for the sake of the game. Players have to be given some freedom of action or they might as well not get any choices at all. And since when is this a trap? It's very likely that they won't actually meet this shadowy stranger face to face for quite some time if ever. I've been disappointed when my players do follow the obvious path if I've fleshed out sidetracks and such.

Perhaps asking for help on the forums wasn't the best thing to do, but so what?

Ikkaan said:

And I can't tell you in words how tired I am of people bitching and moaning about stupid crap while adding nothing constructive to the topic at hand.

I don't know why you're taking such personal offense at a player asking for a bit of insight into a problem his or her character faces. If a player doing something unexpected is a good thing, then getting some outside ideas that he or she would not normally come up with will invariably lead to good things. If there's a winning and a loosing in the game, then why should the GM be the only one allowed to seek outside help and not the players? And if there is no winning and losing, then how could a player seeking outside help be bad? In either case, we don't know the dynamics of Ira's group nor what his or her GM wants or doesn't want from his or her players. All we know is Ira is a player, Ira asked a question, and Ira feels stuck for a good or creative idea. Hell, if Ira were my player, I'd be tickled pink that my game was engaging enough to cause the player to think about it outside of game time and actually invest some time trying to hunt up a solution to a problem I posed. It means, as a GM, I did something right and would be a bit pissed if folks jumped my players thread and tried to shut them down.

Now, on to the topic at hand.

I'd say at the moment, the main thing the acolytes need to worry about is finding out the identity of the heretic (which shouldn't be too hard if you are to clear his or her name). Learning their identity might help dictate what steps should then be taken. After all, they might prove to be the tip of a heretical ice-burg in which case you'll want to put them through a proper interrogation to learn all relevant information before executing them or they might prove to be a valuable tool if they think they have you in their pocket. There's simply not enough information as of yet to decide what course of action to take beyond finding out their identity.

As far as their demands go, by all means, play along with them! Give them money and promises and feel free to actually seek to clear their name just to keep you from lying. After all, clearing their name of what ever heresy they've committed or haven't won't save them from being executed for extorting money and favors from a servant of the Emperor or impeding them while they are about their sacred duties. Beyond that, actively clearing their name will take time, paperwork, and astropaths which means it will have to be done once your current mission has concluded. So make all the promises you want.

Secondly, give the heretic all the money you need to maintain your cover -Marr will get it back when the heretic, his family, friends, bar mates, and second grade teacher is put to the torch for his heresy. Beyond that, Marr gave you those funds for you to spend in order to gather intel on the heretics attending the auction. If giving the mystery heretic that money will keep your cover intact so you can gather intel on the other heretics as well gain info on the mystery heretic, those funds will have been well spent and your mission will have been a success.

In the end, i would hold off on executing the heretic unless your mission rides on his or her death. You're there to gather intel, not execute the heretics -they could still be useful and if it comes to executions, Marr could send an Arbites Kill Squad after the extortionist or anyone else when they try to leave Solomon as long as you've done your job in finding out who they are, where they came from, and where they'll be going.

Heck, if you can convince the extortionist that he or she has you in their pocket, they could turn out to be a long team source of information and could lead to bigger fish to fry.

Go to Marr and explain your cover has been blown and ask for how to proceede.

Worst case scenario Marr pulls you off the case and you get reassigned. (then its up to the GM to come up with a new advenure).

Best case scenario this unknown heretic has to deal with the full resources of a pissed off Inquisitor. While he is fleeing for his life you can continue to the auction.

In any case you haven't actually done anything wrong. (though possibly your cover stories or disguises were somewhat sloppy)

Ikkaan said:

I am truely sorry you feel this way, but just to correct something. I don't rollplay to "win", I rollplay to have an interesting dramatic story. Some parts of a good story are indeed thinking of new ways to correct an issue, so excuse me for asking for simple advice in a situation that no-one except my GM knows the truth and solution to. IF my character fails to keep his cover and dies because of it I can promise I will roll up a new character without the slightest bit of bitching, but what fun would it be if I didnt treat my character like a real person who will do anything to survive.

As to the situation, I am very against contacting anyone outside of the current party, most importantly an inquisitor. However if it boils down to it, I would contact my characters father (as he is noble born), and have him transfer money into the mans account. As it stands I think you are right Graver, and to pay him off and try to learn his identity not to purge him, but to remember it and pass it on to Marr with the rest of the heretics at this auction. Thank you for not only defending my out of game position, but giving some constructive ideas.

Ira said:

Don't get angry... and think twice before getting even. Vengeance gives you a nice warm feeling insider, but has little practical value. Find out if this guy is really guilty of the heresy he has been accused of. Consider giving him the money. And consider whether this guy can be of any use to your characters. First of all find out who he is. Once you do you can then try to force him to work for you - if he doesn't, he'll have no chance to clear his name with the =I=. He could be a useful 'ally'.

numb3rc said:

I´m not asking anyone to fall into a trap for the sake of the game. But to me a roleplaying game is not a strategy tabletop game. There is no winning condition, everyone wins by playing the game. And if your GM is investing time to come up with clever ideas, is it really that fun to analyze the situation out-of-game to its strategic bits with a community and maybe have the optimum outcome? I as a GM would feel like being reduced to a supplier of a tactic situation that is to be overcome at all costs by all means possible, inside and outside the game. Imho, the essential thrill of the game is that the players, and only the players, have to overcome the challenge. How would you guys feel if someone brought five friends to a session to sit around him, not playing characters, constantly giving him advice on how to play? Wouldn´t that be really weird?

Don´t get me wrong, or think i´m agressive. But if i knew my group was doing this it would be shutting a door into my face. Even if a GM utilizes all sources he can get his hands on, including the internet, it´s something that should be resolved in the party. Yes, it would be cool if the players debated the situation in the game downtime, or think about it themselves. Goal reached, the Players think about it and are obviously immersed in the game. It´s just my opinion that players should not go further than their party to drive the story forward.

Hell yes, ok, i´m old fashioned, but i think i have a point.

I agree with Gravers points. Stall for time and make false promises. In the words of Dune - "Its a trap but, knowing its a trap is the first step in evading it" iF you can communicate with Marr I would try but try and ensure that communication is secure. The inquistion has funds for this sort of thing.......and extra ammunition

Without wanting to derail the thread I do have to disagree with Ikkaan. I'm of the school that players should be able to go to any source for a solution, afterall the GM doesnt work in a cave. He has been using external sources other than the game. I think it can be very rewarding for players to use contacts outside the game. I can remember going onto an EPA forum and asking questions about Halon gas systems becuase of an RP game and IC stuff. I told the GM and he was ecstatic that I'd though "outside the box" and he rewarded me with the equivalent of a fate point for the next game (different system).

Ikkaan said:

I really don't see your point here.

First of all, it's clear that Ira isn't treating it like a "tactical situation" he's trying to "win". He's basically asking for roleplaying advice, because no matter how much time you invest in creating a character it is very hard to know the exact same things a character would know.

For instance, I've played Techpriests fom time to time. These guys would know very much about the function of plasma reactors, but I don't know squat about them. Would you forbid me from doing some research on hypothetical designs on plasma reactors, just because it would entail that I use outside sources out of the game? Because it's the exact same thing here. Ira is asking for outside help in how to react to this situation IN-CHARACTER, because he doesn't seem completely sure of how his character would react to the threat at hand. That's what it means to be "stumped" in a rolepaying situation, not that you don't know how to proceed in the most tactical manner. If you don't know how to proceed then you can always just get your guns and start shooting things. Sure it might be stupid to do, but for some types of PC's it would be the most in-character thing to do.

So, like I said, I don't think you have a point here. In fact these demands of yours seem to stifle roleplaying rather than promoting it, because you strive to effectively cut the legs of the players when they try to improve their roleplaying...

macd21 said:

Interesting idea. I shall think this over before the next session.

If a PC was asking for spoilers to a particular scenario then that would be out of order (as it would potentially ruin the other players fun) but just asking advice o nwhat a character would do is fine. I mean I have said go to Marr for help. This could be completly the wrong thing to do as MArr might turn out to be a dangerous psychopath who was 'testing' the Acolytes. At the first sign that they can't act by themselves he has them all shot.

My point is the GM has complete authority to change the rules and game universe at whim, asking for advice o nthe internet isn't going to make the blind bit of difference to whatever mad cap scheme he has concocted.

Whos up for a laugh?

After discussing it with the group and everything we came to a plan of action against this blackmailer, for him not to have a chance to reveal us. At the pre-auction the guilded widow was activated and the chaos started. I would like to thank everyone for their great ideas, but as it turns out they are unnessisary, as the man who discovered us is either dead or fleeing for his life.

Visitor Q said:

But no one except the player knows what the character would do. It's their character after all. I'm in agreement with Ikkaan, you don't go off asking other people what your character would do in a situation, you figure it out for yourself. Looking up stuff online that your character would know, fair enough, but stuff like this which is entirely down to personal opinion should be left down to the player, not the player and all their friends and the internet. Doing otherwise is, in my opinion, cheating and metagaming of the highest order.