Because getting them or not getting them really does not matter.

The only thing it would change would be your purchase order.

I don't see how it matters any less than it does if you're a competitive player, it just matters for different reasons.

I am saying that getting these models don't matter. Sure it is nice to have them but in the end your going to get them anyway.

Well of course, none of it really matters, we're only taking about a game. Similarly, it doesn't matter if you're a competitive player either - so you don't get to practice with the new ships so early, so what, you can do in a few weeks.

Because getting them or not getting them really does not matter.

The only thing it would change would be your purchase order.

I don't see how it matters any less than it does if you're a competitive player, it just matters for different reasons.

I am saying that getting these models don't matter. Sure it is nice to have them but in the end your going to get them anyway.

Well of course, none of it really matters, we're only taking about a game. Similarly, it doesn't matter if you're a competitive player either - so you don't get to practice with the new ships so early, so what, you can do in a few weeks.

This whole topic is all about pride. People's prude was hurt by what they deem unfair situations. They wanted to be special people with a Wave 2 model before anyone else. Some people got this, some have not.

Exactly.

This whole topic is all about pride. People's prude was hurt by what they deem unfair situations. They wanted to be special people with a Wave 2 model before anyone else. Some people got this, some have not.

I don't think it's about pride for everyone, I think the assumption that it's about pride is a tendency that may go hand in hand with being a competitive player. I don't think pride is as important to non-competitive people as it is to competitive ones. Saying that, I obviously can't speak for anyone but myself, maybe it's about pride for lots of people. For me though, it's about niceness - if you've got one of the new toys already, it would be nice to make sure the rest go to people who haven't, regardless of whether they're less good players than you.

To re-iterate, I'm not saying people who don't do the nice thing are bad people. I'm not even sure I'd do it myself - I'd like to think I would, but that means nothing.

For me though, it's about niceness - if you've got one of the new toys already, it would be nice to make sure the rest go to people who haven't, regardless of whether they're less good players than you.

I tend to agree, it would be the nice thing to do. The problem is, that far too often if someone doesn't do the nice thing, it's considered to be a bad thing. I mean everyone things nice is best right?

There's also the fact that no one should feel the need to be nice at a tournament, they should play fair and at least not be a poor sport, but they shouldn't be expected to go above and beyond that.

Also there's a rather large difference between a ISD and a bag of tokens. When you start having $50+ prizes the level of nice starts to get pretty high. I mean if someone spends $10+ in gas, and drives for an hour+ I'd find it really hard to ask that person to give up a prize that they won fairly.

My biggest issue is the whole thing is most times based on the flawed assumptions that the outsider somehow has an unfair advantage over the locals. Not everyone feels that way, you for example don't seem to. But most times when someone talks about a prize sniper, that's what they're implying.

For me though, it's about niceness - if you've got one of the new toys already, it would be nice to make sure the rest go to people who haven't, regardless of whether they're less good players than you.

I tend to agree, it would be the nice thing to do. The problem is, that far too often if someone doesn't do the nice thing, it's considered to be a bad thing. I mean everyone things nice is best right?

There's also the fact that no one should feel the need to be nice at a tournament, they should play fair and at least not be a poor sport, but they shouldn't be expected to go above and beyond that.

Also there's a rather large difference between a ISD and a bag of tokens. When you start having $50+ prizes the level of nice starts to get pretty high. I mean if someone spends $10+ in gas, and drives for an hour+ I'd find it really hard to ask that person to give up a prize that they won fairly.

My biggest issue is the whole thing is most times based on the flawed assumptions that the outsider somehow has an unfair advantage over the locals. Not everyone feels that way, you for example don't seem to. But most times when someone talks about a prize sniper, that's what they're implying.

Yeah, I totally wouldn't act like I expected them to do that, let alone ask them to (unless it was somebody I know very well), that would seem pretty rude to me.

I definitely don't think outsides have any unfair advantage (indeed, being unfamiliar with the local meta they may be at a disadvantage), but I do think travelling indicates a level of commitment that probably puts them ahead of the more casual people who don't travel.

As we've both said though, we're only talking about little (ish!) Star Wars toys, nobody should be getting worked up about it (although again, I can see how people would, even if I don't agree with it).

I like to think i'm a pretty nice guy, especially in tournaments. I have a good number of "best sportsman" rewards etc etc.

However, i don't think it's reasonable to expect someone to give up a £40+ prize ship. If I won that, after an hour drive each way and 6+ hours of hard play, i think i'm pretty justified in keeping it entirely guilt free.

If people that lost dont like it, well.....tough really. Play better and you can choose what to do with it!

There's nothing ******-like, unpleasant, mean, nasty or anything else negative about enjoying your rewards after working hard for them.

In fact, the travelling player has likely worked a lot harder for them. Even the travel aside (which believe me, hurts), it takes a lot of practice, theory craft and time dedication to consistently win tournaments. If local players are all worse (not true, but seems a common opinion), it almost certainly means they haven't dedicated the same amount of time in getting good. And that starts with losing to good players and fixing your mistakes.

How is someone who does not buy from the local store, or any local store (only online), and only plays when there is something to be won make the community better than players who buy from the local store and play with the local group?

Just because they are travelling for events doesn't mean they are buying only online. They probably have their own home FLGS from which they buy. I know it's true for me - I have my own home store but I make it a point to buy something at every store I visit when I'm going around to events.

I understand that this is most likely not the case, but it was in reference to someone saying that people who travel to games are better for the community over local players. So I went to the extreme to point out at least to me that is not always the case, I would not even say normally the case. I think and maybe it is just me, that the local players are the backbone of any game. Now that is not saying that traveling players are bad for the game. As was covered it is the jerk players be they local or traveling, but as a traveling player is not (normally) as reliable player (not talking skill but normal games). If they show up to all the local games not just the ones with prizes then they are a local player regardless of where they live.

There will always be Jerk players who Travel, and be jerks, because they have travelled and thus can get away with it, as they do not have to face those people again. Not at least until they and their jerky attitude have been forgotten...

Jerks are jerks. As a "travelling player" (a term i've decided is much better than prize sniper) i have met just as many ****s that are local to the stores i'm visiting.

I just smile and play the game.

Armada has yet to really experience the most intense forms of "prize sniping," I think. It's one thing for players to drive a few hours to go to stores for events, and the Armada community is small enough right now that I think it's better for the game than local events only be limiting to the half-dozen or less players that most of them could muster.

But, in a couple of years, if Armada grows as large as X-Wing (probably not likely, but still) it will take "prize sniping" to an entirely new level yet unencountered in Armada. In the last year of X-Wing regional tournaments, there were multiple instances of players getting on planes to travel over a thousand miles purely to attend an X-Wing regional tounrnament half-way across the US even though they had already attended others. That's a plane ticket, hotel room, and an entire weekend of travel devoted to an X-Wing tournament. Similarly, most US Regional events (all over 60 players as far as I'm aware) featured at least a few people who had driven over 10 hours to the event, despite the fact that they had already attended or would be attending much closer more local Regional Tournaments. In my state, five of the X-Wing 2015 Store Championships were won by the same two people.

When Armada hits that level of commitment and travel, then it'll be a whole different discussion. As it stands now, it's pretty much a non-issue.

Whats wrong with that? If they invested THAT much, it's not for the prizes. People do that because they like to play at a highly competitive event.

Absolutely, positively nothing at all wrong with what you just posted.

Whats wrong with that? If they invested THAT much, it's not for the prizes. People do that because they like to play at a highly competitive event.

Absolutely, positively nothing at all wrong with what you just posted.

I never said that there was anything wrong with it, just that as a point of comparison it makes the instances that have happened with the Armada community look pretty insignificant. It's offered as a point of perspective.

BUT, why do you say it's not "for the prizes"? That seems clearly false, at least in some cases. One of the guys at my store drove 9 hours to his third X-Wing Regional last year, and it was explicitly because he was desperate to get the prizes (marbled dice, the trophy, and the Nationals BYE most notably, but also the "title" of being able to say you were a "Regional Champion"). I'm sure, had the tournaments not had the prize support they did, many if not all of the players who traveled so far would not have made the trips. So, what kind of reasoning and counter-evidence do you have in mind that it was "not for the prizes?" Because that assessment seems patently false to me, and I just noted one personal example where I know it WAS for the prizes.

PS: Does it being "for the prizes" make it any worse or any better than if it weren't? I guess I'm not sure there's even a meaningful connection

Fair point. I should have said it's not usually for the prizes, since the original example you gave was people that had already won one or more Regionals (and therefore already have the prizes). You certainly wouldnt make a profit by selling them was what i was getting at

And no, it wouldn't be better or worse either way. Perfectly fine whatever the persons reasons are. The point is you used the term "Prize sniper", which for obvious reasons i disagree with.

Fair point. I should have said it's not usually for the prizes, since the original example you gave was people that had already won one or more Regionals (and therefore already have the prizes). You certainly wouldnt make a profit by selling them was what i was getting at

And no, it wouldn't be better or worse either way. Perfectly fine whatever the persons reasons are. The point is you used the term "Prize sniper", which for obvious reasons i disagree with.

Eh, I used prize sniping in scare quotes ("prize sniping") because I'm not sure what it really is intended to mean. If it means "people traveling to tournaments to win the prizes," then yes all of the X-Wing examples I have in mind would count, because those folks weren't traveling just for the fun of it (though, the fact that tournaments ARE fun was probably a big boost in consideration, but take away the prize support and I suspect far fewer people would travel those distances).

As a point of clarification: in X-Wing you could make a profit by selling the prize support, assuming you placed well, even if you spent a couple hundred bucks traveling.

For instance, in the past two X-Wing Regionals, if you placed in the Top 4 (prices based on ranges I have seen these sell for on Ebay):

• Participation Card = ~$20-50
• Acrylic Evade/Shield Tokens = ~$75-150
• Translucent/Marbled Dice Set = ~$150-350
• Maneuver Template Acrylic Set = ~$100+

So, depending on gas prices, you could make a profit even if you traveled hundreds of miles. If you just drove a few hours, you could in theory clean up pretty nicely by selling the stuff for a conservative estimate of $400 (possibly higher), and this is not factoring in selling the BYE card (which FFG has policed in this past year) or the trophy (which would probably be tough to find a buyer, but I'm sure a zealous collector might want it).

Anecdote: A friend of mine who I play frequently at X-Wing tournaments sold off all of his FFG prize support items last year for a little over $1,400. He still travels to most local tourneys and all the major tourneys within six or seven hours drive and just sells off whatever acrylic and cardboard he wins, but he is still looking for the recognition and satisfaction of winning big events (and the obvious satisfaction of playing in tournaments just to play).

A store championship and a regional championship are completely different however than a Massing of Sullust.

A store championship has a title with it, a trophy, a bye to a regi9nal event, etc (I don't know how I feel about the bye though. . . )

A Massing of Sullust event just allows you to boost your collection of models.

Hmmm...beem reading this thread with interest. Now I don't play in tourney, but this issue is quite simple. It boils down perspective, intent and ego.

If your intent is to travel to another game store, enter like you own the place and sealclub every person there just to get prizes, then your an a*****e feeding his own ego for some twisted reason. if you travel to compete, aswell as meeting new friends and spread the love of the game...graciously, then that will be apparent aswell. If you don't feel welcome when you do come with good intentions, then its the problem of the crowd that is holding the Event.In this case, they obviously are threatened by your being there. Maybe they should have thought of that before opening the event to all comers.......Kind of counter-community isn't it? Sometimes it just comes down to human nature....just my 2 cents

Hmmm...beem reading this thread with interest. Now I don't play in tourney, but this issue is quite simple. It boils down perspective, intent and ego.

If your intent is to travel to another game store, enter like you own the place and sealclub very person there just to get prizes, then your an a*****e feeding his own ego for some twisted reason. if you travel to compete, aswell as meeting new friends and spread the love of the game...graciously, then that will be apparent aswell. If you don't feel welcome when you do come with good intentions, then its the problem of the crowd that is holding the Event.In this case, they obviously are threatened by your being there. Maybe they should have thought of that before opening the event to all comers.......Kind of counter-community isn't it? Sometimes it just comes down to human nature....just my 2 cents

I can get behind this but as in all competitions. The goal is to Win. Can someone really be faulted for their desire to be the best?

Hmmm...beem reading this thread with interest. Now I don't play in tourney, but this issue is quite simple. It boils down perspective, intent and ego.

If your intent is to travel to another game store, enter like you own the place and sealclub very person there just to get prizes, then your an a*****e feeding his own ego for some twisted reason. if you travel to compete, aswell as meeting new friends and spread the love of the game...graciously, then that will be apparent aswell. If you don't feel welcome when you do come with good intentions, then its the problem of the crowd that is holding the Event.In this case, they obviously are threatened by your being there. Maybe they should have thought of that before opening the event to all comers.......Kind of counter-community isn't it? Sometimes it just comes down to human nature....just my 2 cents

I can get behind this but as in all competitions. The goal is to Win. Can someone really be faulted for their desire to be the best?

No one can be faulted for their desire to be the best, but not at the expense of honor or integrity....

I believe I said it in another thread, but seal-clubbing isn't a tournament behavior because of the randomized parings and expectation of competition. If a player does well, they get matched against the other strong players. If someone wins a tournament, they played better than everyone else (Unless they were breaking rules, which includes the sportsmanship requirements). Seal Clubbing involves deliberately seeking out inexperienced players and being a jerk- Short of throwing the early matches, you can't do that in a tournament.

Now, traveling jerks can be a problem at tournaments. The solution there is the same as dealing with every jerk at events- Approach the TO and ask them to deal with the issue. Now some TOs need to develop a bit more backbone when dealing with the issue, but that can hopefully be dealt with as FFG works on a judge program.

A store championship and a regional championship are completely different however than a Massing of Sullust.

A store championship has a title with it, a trophy, a bye to a regi9nal event, etc (I don't know how I feel about the bye though. . . )

A Massing of Sullust event just allows you to boost your collection of models.

So the question I have is the store championship, to me that implies it is set up for the normal players of that store. As in you are the best player from that store. Like I have said earlier I do not think that you have to live local to the store if you play there on a regular basis, but if I traveled to Idaho and played in a game there and took the store championship am I really the store champion seeing as I am not likely to ever be there again? (As I do not live even close to Idaho).

Seems like a simple solution to this.....have the tourny at the same time you release the WAVE, not 2 months before. Folks can win ships as prizes and those that did not can buy the ships.

Tourney happened precisely because there was a delay for wave 2.

If you do this "prize sniping" you still have to play well in the tournament so I don't get why it's a problem, it's not like you get a random, top prize by just showing up. I have never heard of anyone complain about this, except maybe as a joke muttering ah dang "insert town name" beat us at our local tournament but never in a sincere way .

The thing I thought could be a problem with people attending multiple smaller events like store champ or game nights is that local players might not be able to get a spot in the tournament because people from a nearby town claimed it first even though they also will attend the store champ in their town. But this problem will only happen if there is a large number of players (wich is a good thing) but limited space. I have never thought of people from other towns winning so called "our prizes" , if they earned them then I'm fine with that.

A store championship and a regional championship are completely different however than a Massing of Sullust.

A store championship has a title with it, a trophy, a bye to a regi9nal event, etc (I don't know how I feel about the bye though. . . )

A Massing of Sullust event just allows you to boost your collection of models.

So the question I have is the store championship, to me that implies it is set up for the normal players of that store. As in you are the best player from that store. Like I have said earlier I do not think that you have to live local to the store if you play there on a regular basis, but if I traveled to Idaho and played in a game there and took the store championship am I really the store champion seeing as I am not likely to ever be there again? (As I do not live even close to Idaho).

Yes, you won the event that determines that stores Store Champion, this you are that stores Store Champion.

FFG does not structure these events, nor allow them to be structed, in an exclusive manner.

A store championship and a regional championship are completely different however than a Massing of Sullust.

A store championship has a title with it, a trophy, a bye to a regi9nal event, etc (I don't know how I feel about the bye though. . . )

A Massing of Sullust event just allows you to boost your collection of models.

So the question I have is the store championship, to me that implies it is set up for the normal players of that store. As in you are the best player from that store. Like I have said earlier I do not think that you have to live local to the store if you play there on a regular basis, but if I traveled to Idaho and played in a game there and took the store championship am I really the store champion seeing as I am not likely to ever be there again? (As I do not live even close to Idaho).

Yes, you won the event that determines that stores Store Champion, this you are that stores Store Champion.

FFG does not structure these events, nor allow them to be structed, in an exclusive manner.

So taking it to the next level, as I get a bye card for wining, what if I was good enough to get several of them so I do not have to play the first three or four rounds. It just does not sound right to me. It may be fully in compliance with the rules but sounds wrong. Mostly academic to me as I do not plan to play in anything more than store right now, as I do not have the time or money to do so.