Why is it bad form? I dont actually do it (i love my toys), but for the sake of this post assume i do:

If i put the hours in, work for it, and win it, it's mine. Why is it bad form to do anything i choose with it?

Hell, its not profitable. I earn a LOT more in the time it takes to do an all day tournament than the cost of an ISD, and i would hope that anybody getting this worked up about a game (which is ultimately quite a luxury) can say the same.

But it is entirely fairly my property at that point, the same as if i bought the only one in the store before other people get to it. There's no real difference, except that in fact other players had a much better chance to get it.

I will agree again with the above. It is a tournament. Tournament, by the very definition, is supposed to be a competition. You are lucky when there is even a participation prize because they don't have to do that. You want the good stuff? Either win or buy it.

I, for the record, am not condoning ****** baggery for those who brag about winning though. That falls under poor sportsmanship rather than prize sniping and anyone at a tourney (be it a local or a traveller) can be found guilty of this.

One thing I don't complain about is the money side of it...

I mean, I would love to be able to travel to hit multiple tournaments. I would love to have more than 1 day every 2 weeks when I can leave the house by myself and go play...

I scrimped and saved pennies to even afford the entry Fee... Plus the transit tickets for my 1.5-2 hour journey each way on the train to get there.

I wish I did have the money at the car to hit up 4 tournaments like one person I know did, especialyl when they targeted the lower turnout tournaments in the difficult-to-reach stores and walked away with an ISD, 2 Mon Cals and a Raider, because they could...

I know I'm on the back foot... But that's my problem to deal with... Just as now, knowing that its going to be well after Christmas before I see anything Wave 2, unless I get really lucky on the 15th of November where The Sentry Box is doing a Redux for Sullust, as they got 2 kits in.

I expect competition to be tough but fair. Keep it fair and it can be as tough as you want. That's all.

Absolutely, fair is a different issue, as is the sportsmanship thing. ANYBODY that brags all the time is a total ass, whether they are local or not. And your TO really screwed you in your tournament Drasnighta, no argument.

But thats all sportsmanship stuff, which is nothing to do with the "prize sniping" issue. If those guys that came to yours has just played and been nice guys, i think we can agree it would have been cool?

Most definitely.

I do argue that it was a form of prize sniping however, which was specifically targeting and abusing rules and situations in order to guarantee a prize.

Even if it was just the Rogues and Villains pack that could be split amongst them.

Complaints about "prize sniping" seem to come down to "I would like to have minimal competition for me and my buddies to win prerelease prizes."

It's totally normal to want the best chances of winning something cool. I went to a Sullust tournament hoping to win an Imperial-class Star Destroyer. My buddy wanted to win an MC80. Several people I'd never seen before at the store showed up. I did not win an Imperial-class Star Destroyer (I took 3rd and snagged a Raider) and my buddy did not win the MC80 (he took 4th and grabbed the MC30). That's just how it was, no big deal. A lot of us wanted one of the two large ships and only two of us realized those desires (at least that day). So again: you're reacting like a normal human being by wanting the best shot at getting cool stuff for you and your friends. The problem is that enforcing some kind of formal(rules) or informal(shaming) system for ensuring that is both difficult and likely unethical.

So long as the attendees are all good sports and the games you had were good, I don't see the problem. You cannot control participant motivation and acting as gatekeepers to your local meta is both burdensome and also elitist. You don't know the circumstances behind each of the participants (maybe this guy you never saw before in your life can't get regular games in but took a few vacation days off work to attend all the Sullust events he could). You also don't have any control over what happens to the prizes after they are awarded (kept, given away, sold on eBay, exploded on Youtube, thrown into traffic, misplaced at a bus stop, who knows?) and worrying about that will only drive you mad. The prizes become private property and the owners can do with them as they please.

I think the only legitimate complaint is that the allure of prerelease prizes can bring out the worst in otherwise-good people and also bring out the worst people in general, which is another topic. Hopefully your FLGS has some kind of policy for reprimanding or banning disruptive and unpleasant people, and over time the problem should largely resolve itself with the occasional bump along the way.

I guess it was a different form when viewed like that, but again that's really on the TO. If he'd just stuck to the rules, no problems to be had.

Yea, I think the prize ruling was a total D move by both the group of players demanding it and the TO for going along with it. My local FLGS used to have that award for the Star Trek Attack Wing OPs until after 2 OP events, it was discovered that 1 player was tanking on purpose so they could walk with a prize ship. That ship is now raffled off instead. There should never be a "last place" prize. It is much too easy to game for that than win.

Yea, I think the prize ruling was a total D move by both the group of players demanding it and the TO for going along with it. My local FLGS used to have that award for the Star Trek Attack Wing OPs until after 2 OP events, it was discovered that 1 player was tanking on purpose so they could walk with a prize ship. That ship is now raffled off instead. There should never be a "last place" prize. It is much too easy to game for that than win.

Yea, I think the prize ruling was a total D move by both the group of players demanding it and the TO for going along with it. My local FLGS used to have that award for the Star Trek Attack Wing OPs until after 2 OP events, it was discovered that 1 player was tanking on purpose so they could walk with a prize ship. That ship is now raffled off instead. There should never be a "last place" prize. It is much too easy to game for that than win.

It would be kind of hilarious to see two players try that at the same time, though.

batdad episode of south park anyone......

Snipafist 100% nailed it.

lol, like a loser's playoff. Who can suck the most!

I am not opposed to last play prizes when its new dice or $10 in store credit. Usually its the fun prize that's like "hey bud, you had a rough day, heres your entrance fee back" It does great things for younger kids who may get discouraged and helps keep them coming back.

I am not opposed to last play prizes when its new dice or $10 in store credit. Usually its the fun prize that's like "hey bud, you had a rough day, heres your entrance fee back" It does great things for younger kids who may get discouraged and helps keep them coming back.

I generally prefer raffle prizes that only people who did not win regular prizes are eligible for, as it disincentivizes deliberately tanking to win a prize for those who really want something but realize their odds of getting into the top brackets aren't great.

I will say that last place prizes have been done pretty comedically with one of my friend's Infinity group. At Adepticon, whoever gets last place in the Infinity tournament gets a starter box for a different miniatures game. It's mean, but it's a kind of kidding mean with a smile that's not intended to actually hurt anyone's feelings. My friend has won this prize, haha.

I am not opposed to last play prizes when its new dice or $10 in store credit. Usually its the fun prize that's like "hey bud, you had a rough day, heres your entrance fee back" It does great things for younger kids who may get discouraged and helps keep them coming back.

I think particpation prizes and raffles work better in most cases. Even if nobody tries to deliberately earn them, last place prizes just make second to last the least desirable place- I was in that position at my first D&D minis tourney, and I was a bit put out.

Now, in specific cases where a sole new player gets stomped into the dirt because they unwittingly entered a very competitive metagame* for the first time, that's different. But that's more something a store owner and the community need to identify on a case by case basis.

*I'm not talking about going to regionals for your first tourney- I'm talking about going to a weekly M:TG tourney as a fresh-faced newbie who didn't know what standard was or that lands weren't actually green permanents, and then having to stare down Faerie Control decks and a Time Sieve recursion deck. I mean, I still came back next week, and even brought my sister, but I think that was a combination of some fairly gracious winners and a very nice store owner.

I will say that last place prizes have been done pretty comedically with one of my friend's Infinity group. At Adepticon, whoever gets last place in the Infinity tournament gets a starter box for a different miniatures game. It's mean, but it's a kind of kidding mean with a smile that's not intended to actually hurt anyone's feelings. My friend has won this prize, haha.

That sort of prize can be fun (I've heard of a couple of tounge-in-cheek things like that done at old 40k tourneys*). You definitely need to know the guy who's getting it, though.

*My particular favorite was giving the second best painting score to a guard army that was merely spray-primed white, because "His army's winter camo blends in perfectly with the bases!" Although that might have been the players conspiring against a TO with his head up his backside.

EDIT: DRAT. Some day I will remember to copy-paste instead of hitting post when I know there's a risk of double posting.

if one or more people show up to play and are better then the locals so win all the prizes and are jerks that does not help out the store, same can be said for the locals.

The problem is based on this one single assumption. Why is someone from out of town better than the locals? What if the local store is the one the World Champion happens to play at?

The whole idea of prize snipping is based on the faulty premise that people coming to that store are in a higher weight class and the locals stand no chance.

There is no professional circuit for any of FFG's games, and just because you won the world championship doesn't mean you can never be beat.

I did not base the assumption on them being better that is why I said IF, it was mostly about how there attitude can make or break the spirit of friendship, that I feel the games are supposed to foster. Now having said that I am guessing that there are lots better than my local group, we play at most once a month, more like once every six weeks or so. Are the players who play more going to be better, yes. Do we just by the fact that it is our local store deserve the prizes? No, now this does raise the question what about the upcoming store champion? Based on what I have read about it, it sounds like it is supposed to be for who is the local/regular store players. For sake of the discussion let say that I am one of the best players in the world (not so, but lets go with it for this) and I have unlimited money so I travel all around the nation and get me lots of first round bye weeks for every single regional that may not be against the letter of the rule, but at least to me in this case would be against the spirit of the rule.

I actually find it a fairly amusing contradiction to see people post about players traveling to events solely caring about winning the prizes.

And the contradiction is those people making those posts are only upset about the situation because they or thiers didn't win the prize in the end. So in reality they were there for the prize as well, yet want to claim some moral high ground because they got beat.

You want the prize an event is offering? Win the event.

I think you're making faulty assumptions about people's motives there. I suspect their concern is more with few people winning multiple prizes (rather than lots of people getting a prize) than with the fact that they personally didn't win.

I'm on the anti-sniper side. If you're the kind of person that travels to multiple events to win prizes, particularly if you already have the prizes....even more so if you openly brag about having those prizes. Then you should be able to handle being name-called. It is, what it is. You're deliberately hunting for prizes, you're not there to make friends. So don't always expect a warm welcome.

I would have TONS of respect for someone that wins and then 'donates' their prize to the 2nd place player if they said "I already have one of these".

Myself personally, I practice this when I win tournaments locally. I pass up on Alt-Art cards and medals. I give them to the player under me, or an opponent that I faced that I had a good time facing.

while i agree that if your like "LOLOLOL this is my third ISD this weekend" and you get called a d-bag, you earned it. FFG is also unique in that their prizes are more than 1st-3rd coins or pins and store credit.

i got to tournaments to play and meet new people, and practice for things like store championships and regional. If that makes me a shark so be it but that's how i want to play this game, at the highest level of competition i am capable of. Does that mean I should pass up my prize support, not really.

The entitlement stuff comes up here. I AM NOT AIMING THIS AT ANYONE. The fact that people automatically assume that because someone has something and they re-acquire it, that it will get passed down, bugs me. You didn't earn it. If I win a tournament, I earned it. I won my games, I got all the points, Its my prizes to do with whatever I like. If I want to pass it down to build the community up, fine. If i want to add it to my collection, fine. If i want to take it home and give it to my buddy fine. If i want to take it into the bathroom and wipe my arse with it, fine. Some people feel that because they don't have something and others already do, that when it is re-acquired by the people who already have it, it should be theirs cuz they showed up.

What makes you think people are acting entitled, or assuming they'll get anything? Personally, I just think there's an obvious nice thing to do, I certainly don't expect people to do it. Yeah, we get it, it's yours, your precious, that's up to you. Nobody's saying they have a right to it (whatever a right is), just what would be nice.

I was more miffed by the fact that we had players come in from out of store, who threatened the smooth running of the tournament in order to change the rules on it...

... the TO capitulated and I lost a prize for it in the end... But one of them gained one...

The problem you should be focusing on here is that you had a jackass show up to your tournament and screw it up for everybody else, which you would (rightfully) be pissed about regardless of whether he's a local guy or not. The problem is not that some big out-of-town Jasper showed up. Conflating his jackassery with the unrelated fact that he came in from somewhere else is, yes, harmful to the community.

Yes. YES. I travel a lot for tournaments! I hope people don't automatically assume I'm a ******. Let me at least PROVE I'm a jerk first!

I hate to add this, but the kind of list you bring can also affect perceptions of prize sniping.

If you're rolling in with Motti, 2 VSD and 2 Glads, THEN you mention you've already won TWO ISDs....you're probably a sniper.

I'm on the anti-sniper side. If you're the kind of person that travels to multiple events to win prizes, particularly if you already have the prizes....even more so if you openly brag about having those prizes. Then you should be able to handle being name-called. It is, what it is. You're deliberately hunting for prizes, you're not there to make friends. So don't always expect a warm welcome.

I would have TONS of respect for someone that wins and then 'donates' their prize to the 2nd place player if they said "I already have one of these".

Myself personally, I practice this when I win tournaments locally. I pass up on Alt-Art cards and medals. I give them to the player under me, or an opponent that I faced that I had a good time facing.

while i agree that if your like "LOLOLOL this is my third ISD this weekend" and you get called a d-bag, you earned it. FFG is also unique in that their prizes are more than 1st-3rd coins or pins and store credit.

i got to tournaments to play and meet new people, and practice for things like store championships and regional. If that makes me a shark so be it but that's how i want to play this game, at the highest level of competition i am capable of. Does that mean I should pass up my prize support, not really.

The entitlement stuff comes up here. I AM NOT AIMING THIS AT ANYONE. The fact that people automatically assume that because someone has something and they re-acquire it, that it will get passed down, bugs me. You didn't earn it. If I win a tournament, I earned it. I won my games, I got all the points, Its my prizes to do with whatever I like. If I want to pass it down to build the community up, fine. If i want to add it to my collection, fine. If i want to take it home and give it to my buddy fine. If i want to take it into the bathroom and wipe my arse with it, fine. Some people feel that because they don't have something and others already do, that when it is re-acquired by the people who already have it, it should be theirs cuz they showed up.

What makes you think people are acting entitled, or assuming they'll get anything? Personally, I just think there's an obvious nice thing to do, I certainly don't expect people to do it. Yeah, we get it, it's yours, your precious, that's up to you. Nobody's saying they have a right to it (whatever a right is), just what would be nice.

I found people often assume that its automatically being passed down and get offended when you keep it. I kept my winnings at one of the tournaments I had won and already had the stuff. I was going to give it to my locals who cant get out to events as they help me practice and effectively are a big part of my victories. There were some growns about it and i ended up passing it down not to "offend" anyone. I don't like being in that predicament. Maybe I want another Alt art card so i can play with one and keep the other at home in case something happens to the one i play with.

My generation (I am 29) was raised with sharing is caring and helping out the "less fortunate" sometimes that means stuff like food and clothes, sometimes the "less fortunate" is the guy who got 5th place in Mandollies. We were told the right thing to do is pass it down, and it is, it really is. As I said sometimes i just want another copy to give to someone else. When I opt to keep those things i feel like i'm being actively judged.

Absolutely, fair is a different issue, as is the sportsmanship thing. ANYBODY that brags all the time is a total ass, whether they are local or not. And your TO really screwed you in your tournament Drasnighta, no argument.

But thats all sportsmanship stuff, which is nothing to do with the "prize sniping" issue. If those guys that came to yours has just played and been nice guys, i think we can agree it would have been cool?

I think this is more what it is really about. Years ago in a different game, where you won points and then at the end of the day used those points to bid for the prize support. I had a great day, and had more points than anyone else, mostly I played to the objective, they played to kill. I had enough points to out bid by one for every prize. I could have done so and been fully in compliance with the rules of the tournament but to me that would have been the jerk thing to do, so I ask the guy running it to put the top prize (one I was playing for) first and bid all my points. So it is not to me that a better player beat me, it is if they are being a jerk about it. As I know I am one of the big fish in our very very small pond.

I'm on the anti-sniper side. If you're the kind of person that travels to multiple events to win prizes, particularly if you already have the prizes....even more so if you openly brag about having those prizes. Then you should be able to handle being name-called. It is, what it is. You're deliberately hunting for prizes, you're not there to make friends. So don't always expect a warm welcome.

I would have TONS of respect for someone that wins and then 'donates' their prize to the 2nd place player if they said "I already have one of these".

Myself personally, I practice this when I win tournaments locally. I pass up on Alt-Art cards and medals. I give them to the player under me, or an opponent that I faced that I had a good time facing.

while i agree that if your like "LOLOLOL this is my third ISD this weekend" and you get called a d-bag, you earned it. FFG is also unique in that their prizes are more than 1st-3rd coins or pins and store credit.

i got to tournaments to play and meet new people, and practice for things like store championships and regional. If that makes me a shark so be it but that's how i want to play this game, at the highest level of competition i am capable of. Does that mean I should pass up my prize support, not really.

The entitlement stuff comes up here. I AM NOT AIMING THIS AT ANYONE. The fact that people automatically assume that because someone has something and they re-acquire it, that it will get passed down, bugs me. You didn't earn it. If I win a tournament, I earned it. I won my games, I got all the points, Its my prizes to do with whatever I like. If I want to pass it down to build the community up, fine. If i want to add it to my collection, fine. If i want to take it home and give it to my buddy fine. If i want to take it into the bathroom and wipe my arse with it, fine. Some people feel that because they don't have something and others already do, that when it is re-acquired by the people who already have it, it should be theirs cuz they showed up.

What makes you think people are acting entitled, or assuming they'll get anything? Personally, I just think there's an obvious nice thing to do, I certainly don't expect people to do it. Yeah, we get it, it's yours, your precious, that's up to you. Nobody's saying they have a right to it (whatever a right is), just what would be nice.

I found people often assume that its automatically being passed down and get offended when you keep it. I kept my winnings at one of the tournaments I had won and already had the stuff. I was going to give it to my locals who cant get out to events as they help me practice and effectively are a big part of my victories. There were some growns about it and i ended up passing it down not to "offend" anyone. I don't like being in that predicament. Maybe I want another Alt art card so i can play with one and keep the other at home in case something happens to the one i play with.

My generation (I am 29) was raised with sharing is caring and helping out the "less fortunate" sometimes that means stuff like food and clothes, sometimes the "less fortunate" is the guy who got 5th place in Mandollies. We were told the right thing to do is pass it down, and it is, it really is. As I said sometimes i just want another copy to give to someone else. When I opt to keep those things i feel like i'm being actively judged.

Yuck, I certainly don't like the idea of pressuring people like that. I'd have been friendly and judged you privately later

I hate to add this, but the kind of list you bring can also affect perceptions of prize sniping.

If you're rolling in with Motti, 2 VSD and 2 Glads, THEN you mention you've already won TWO ISDs....you're probably a sniper.

Yeah you continue to bring the ridiculous.

I hate to add this, but the kind of list you bring can also affect perceptions of prize sniping.

If you're rolling in with Motti, 2 VSD and 2 Glads, THEN you mention you've already won TWO ISDs....you're probably a sniper.

I don't understand this. Does this mean that they should have brought one (or both) of their ISDs into their list to prove they are not a sniper?