Ordinance seems like high risk/high reward these days. Espexially With scum.

One wrong turn and Ndru can be pointed in the wrong direction with interceptors getting on his tail. Bye bye 25pts.

On the other hand that homing missle can 1-shot the games best aces with good/lucku positioning and a botched or nonexistant (thanks to modifiers) green roll.

People that are insisting that ordnance isn't worth it are relics of an elder era.

Get with the program guys. I've seen Han taking homing missiles to deal with evasive ships.

He is but the more points you put into him the less efficient he is- he's still in a z95 and has no repositioning nor does he out ps the true aces.

No, he's just as efficient, he's just 24-25 pts efficient Vs 17-19 pts efficient. Don't take ordnance if you don't think they'll pay up.

It's up to your way of building your team. Do you see Ordnance as just some upgrade that you can toss here and there, or do you see them as a good compliment to get more bang for your buck?

I take N'Dru with Lonewolf for 19pts. I consider that he'll be worth it, or why would I take him. I could leave him at that and move on to the rest of the list. But I could also give him Cluster Missiles and Glimmerstim for 6 more points, especially if I expect to see ships with low agility and high hit point. For 6 more points, I can make N'Dru a real threat to every big ship. Heck, he can even potentially one-shot a B-Wing or a Y-Wing!; He can strip tokens for an Ace, leaving him open for the rest of the squad to shoot at a tokenless Ace; he can just deny access to some zone, because believe me that no ship will want to be into his range 1-2 line of sight as long as he have his missiles; he can, and probably will, draw aggro over him, leaving the time for the rest of the team to get into position. Now, is all those things worth 6 more points? Matter of opinion, but I personally think they are.

But if you don't think N'Dru is worth it from the start, don't even consider bringing him with ordnance, because you'll probably be disappointed. He might just not fit your style, and that's okay. That's the beauty of this game, what works for me might not work for you, and vice versa. That brings diversity in lists and this creates the best tournament scenes.

I had some success with an alpha strike list during Regionals. It is true that they thrive against the 2 ship meta, but I think there is still a place for them in this 'new' meta. Obviously things will be influenced heavily by what performs well at worlds, but I think that many people don't like ordnance because of how poorly it compares to cannons, but I have ranted about that in the past. The bottom line is that cannons are not available on cheap ships (except for the Scyk, and we all know what an auto-include that is). To really evaluate whether or not ordnance is worth it means that you need to take a holistic view of your squad. Z95s with Homing or Concussion missiles will do damage if they are ignored. They are cheap, and can draw the heat off of your other ships long enough for you to get your ace into the end game to clean up, or they will get ignored and deal some damage before going on blocking duty.

TL;DR - You need to analyze what ordnance will do for your specific squad, because it changes a lot of intangibles about your squad. If your tactical knowledge can only comprehend "Throw lots of red dice at it", then ordnance is probably not for you, which is ironic because that is what it is expected to do - by definition.

*Edit - exactly what Red Castle said above - intangible things change when you include a small upgrade

OK. Let's backtrack for a second here.

What are the best alpha strike (burst damage) options in the game?

What are the best ships and pilots to take them?

What builds can these options be effectively used in?

In what instances can they be more effective than buying another secondary of equivalent value, or simply more ships (or ships with higher attack dice)?

Welcome to obese Han.

Before going to work, I would just like to say that I would love to try (and in fact, probably will):

5 Black Sun Soldier with Homing Missiles and Glimmerstim.

That's 5 4 dice+TL+F at PS 3. It means that it can potentially destroy 2 TLT Y-Wing before they even have the chance to shoot, at least one and crippling another. It can also destroy a fat ship in one turn. It can scare the hell ou of any Ace pilot. That could be very interesting!

Before going to work, I would just like to say that I would love to try (and in fact, probably will):

5 Black Sun Soldier with Homing Missiles and Glimmerstim.

That's 5 4 dice+TL+F at PS 3. It means that it can potentially destroy 2 TLT Y-Wing before they even have the chance to shoot, at least one and crippling another. It can also destroy a fat ship in one turn. It can scare the hell ou of any Ace pilot. That could be very interesting!

My brother brought exactly that list to a tournament we both went to. He took 3rd place, but I ate him alive in the semifinal with brobots and range control.

OK. Let's backtrack for a second here.

What are the best alpha strike (burst damage) options in the game?

What are the best ships and pilots to take them?

What builds can these options be effectively used in?

In what instances can they be more effective than buying another secondary of equivalent value, or simply more ships (or ships with higher attack dice)?

I'll give a shot at what I see as strong choices for ordnance:

Missiles:

Ion Pulse - Don't spend the TL and can ionize a large ship, this is good. Plus they're only 3 points.

Advanced Homing - The range 2 restriction sucks (i.e. screams at Rhymer) but they're only 3 points and bypass shields

Concussion - The only thing in the game that turns a blank to a hit (other than palpatine)

Cluster - Shreds low agility targets, synergizes well with AC or FCS, but that costs more points...

Homing - No Evade token, doesn't spend TL. This is a bit of an all-or-nothing upgrade, because the evade token can be used on any other attack, but hey, damage is damage.

Torpedoes:

Plasma? They're only 3 points for a 4 dice attack that can plink an extra shield off. No dice mods, so either build for synergy or prepare sacrifices to the dice gods.

Advanced Proton Torpedo - The 5 dice attack that never happens... They're also way too expensive. Rhymer with PtL could be funny, until he got killed before getting a target into range 2 in arc... Guri? Nera Dantels? No good options here...

Crackshot earns honorable mention as the ordnance EPT. It gives you another damage, which may not sound like a lot, but that wins games.

I think the best ordnance platforms are cheap ships, that even after adding toys are in the teens or low 20s. That doesn't leave a whole lot of options, but what we have(by faction) is:

Rebel

Z95 - 15 for an Ion Pulse or Advanced Homing, 16 for Concussion or Cluster, 17 for Homing. +1 if you want to shoot before TLTs. This is where my experience is, and I will always vouch for Z95s with concussion missiles. Take 2 or 3 to really force tough decisions.

A Wing - Prockets didn't make my list above, but they are great on Jake and Tycho. I've tried using PtL and concussion on a green, but I had mixed results...

Y Wing - Nobody takes torpedoes because Twin Laser Turrets are so sexy. Horton with Proton Torpedoes and Extra Munitions is an interesting alternative though. He sacrifices quantity of attacks for 2 heavy damage attacks, which may or may not equal the offense he would put out with a TLT before dying.

Scum

Z95 - Access to glitterstim is crucial here. Both named pilots are also great. Kaa'to can do work with concussion missiles without needing to take drugs, while N'dru prefers cluster or homing and all the drugs he can get. Generics are also amazing choices, but suffer from lower PS than their rebel counterparts.

Y Wing - Same issues as rebel variants, but I guess the astromech situation is better. I haven't tried them.

Imperials

Bomber - The only ship that really benefits from extra munitions, in my opinion. Generics can take 2IPMs, and 2 Homing for the low-low price of 26 squad points. Not bad... Jonus helps if you want him, Rhymer attracts all of the agro.

Punisher - Not cheap, but can be more independent than most other ships in this list because they can take the FCS. However, after putting on all of the bells and whistles, these babies land in the mid 30's, where you could also choose to take a FCS Shuttle with HLC. Lack of a K turn makes the punisher a better ship to fly, but the shuttle can take vader/gunner/palpatine.

Summary: Once a ship gets into the high 20's to mid 30's, it can be compared to ship with HLCs. Math is not usually in favor of ordnance there... Even in the mid 20's imperials get access to the phantom. So, when building with ordnance in mind, keep the ships cheap, and have a plan for them. Draw heat away from your other ships, fly aggressively and block, or whatever, just know what you want them to do before they go on the table. It is also a story of diminishing returns, going from 3 to 4 attack dice is nice, but going from 2 to 4 is heavenly. Get more out of those little guns before they die.

Bottom line: I think Scum have the most reliable options out at the moment. Having access to Glitterstim makes them very hard to kill before they fire their missiles. Rebels require synergy and action efficiency built into the list to truly thrive. Imperials can take lots of ordnance on 1 or 2 ships and have points left for an ace to give your opponent a headache for who to target first.

Some alpha strike I've been having some success with:

3 x Sigma Squadron Pilot [FCS, RecSpec, SPA]

Evade, Focus, Focus makes you pretty durable.

Not technically an alpha strike list, since your damage is consistent, not delivered in a spike. It is a fun list, though.

Fair point, but it still plays like an alpha strike list. You typically only want to engage out of decloaks and completely disengage on every other turn.

3 x 4-5 reds outspikes most lists, though I'll admit the low PS is a gamble.

Games usually last 10-15 minutes after the first pass lol.

I used to run a Jonus Brother's list, but with Extra Munitions, I found it's better to drop Jonus and give everyone Homing Missiles. Jonus is the weak spot.

4 x Scimitar w/ Homing Missile, Seismic Charge, and EM.

I played 3 games tonight and won 2/3. I lost to 3 Scyks with Manglers and 2 Kihraxz Fighters. Too many crits.

In one game with a really good opponent, he had Poe, Jake Farrel, and Kyle with TLT. Poe was able to brush off most damage and regen any hits, but then he forgot about my Seismic Charges. I had K-turned without using my TL and was able to finish him off.

Bombs stripped his shields and then the first missile rolled 3 crits and a hit. No more Poe. In the same round, I was able to one shot Kyle in the HWK with one Homing Missile. I got 1 hit and 2 crits through. The crits were both double damage. It came down to Jake Farrell vs. 2 Tie Bombers. It was a long and brutal game, but I managed a win. It was hard fought and my opponent was skillful (besides forgetting about the bombs). I managed to finally land enough solid hits to finish him.

Darkhorse's strategy guide of using Seismic Charges and Missiles is great.

argh, been playing Redline so long I look at bombers and see anemic punishers

4 x Scimitar w/ Homing Missile, Seismic Charge, and EM.

Oh darn, I'm a Rebel play but I'm a glutton for ordance too. Love the idea of spamming 4 of those guys, but I've only one Bomber, and two Punishers (for Redline and Deathrain). I should try to come up with an alternate list...lol

4 x Scimitar w/ Homing Missile, Seismic Charge, and EM.

I'm going to say it; that is one hell of a gorgeous list.

3 Scyks with Manglers and 2 Kihraxz Fighters.

So is that one. Tasty.

4 x Scimitar w/ Homing Missile, Seismic Charge, and EM.

I'm going to say it; that is one hell of a gorgeous list.

3 Scyks with Manglers and 2 Kihraxz Fighters.

So is that one. Tasty.

Thanks!

Yeah, the Scum one was really nice. I got him down to 1 Kihraxz Fighter, but it was a forgone conclusion. I kept complimenting him on it. I actually have enough ships to try it. Man, too many lists to try out! I still haven't used my Punisher, K-wing, T-70, ....well...and my Falcon, but I don't care about that.

Yeah, the Scum one was really nice. I got him down to 1 Kihraxz Fighter, but it was a forgone conclusion. I kept complimenting him on it. I actually have enough ships to try it. Man, too many lists to try out! I still haven't used my Punisher, K-wing, T-70, ....well...and my Falcon, but I don't care about that.

I use a similar list myself, only mine's 3x Kihraxz, 2xManglerScyks. When it comes to shooting, I let the Kihraxz shoot first to strip shields and tokens, then the Scyks pile in the crits.

One Alpha strike squad that I tried was this:

I used to run a Jonus Brother's list, but with Extra Munitions, I found it's better to drop Jonus and give everyone Homing Missiles. Jonus is the weak spot.

4 x Scimitar w/ Homing Missile, Seismic Charge, and EM.

I played 3 games tonight and won 2/3. I lost to 3 Scyks with Manglers and 2 Kihraxz Fighters. Too many crits.

In one game with a really good opponent, he had Poe, Jake Farrel, and Kyle with TLT. Poe was able to brush off most damage and regen any hits, but then he forgot about my Seismic Charges. I had K-turned without using my TL and was able to finish him off.

Bombs stripped his shields and then the first missile rolled 3 crits and a hit. No more Poe. In the same round, I was able to one shot Kyle in the HWK with one Homing Missile. I got 1 hit and 2 crits through. The crits were both double damage. It came down to Jake Farrell vs. 2 Tie Bombers. It was a long and brutal game, but I managed a win. It was hard fought and my opponent was skillful (besides forgetting about the bombs). I managed to finally land enough solid hits to finish him.

Darkhorse's strategy guide of using Seismic Charges and Missiles is great.

What they need to do is make the owner of the prox mine/clusters roll the dice, that way palp can modify them offensively. Jonus should also be errated to provide rerolls for mines. That would be super cool, then he becomes the prox mine king.

Wow, I really like that list idea. Never was a fan of quad Bombers with Jonus, as he didn't benefit himself and therefore didn't synergize with the ordnance, and did nothing special for bombs.

What they need to do is make the owner of the prox mine/clusters roll the dice, that way palp can modify them offensively. Jonus should also be errated to provide rerolls for mines. That would be super cool, then he becomes the prox mine king.

With Jonus, you just gave him a Homing Missile so he gets some sort of re-roll. He's usually the first dead, though. Once he's gone, the list does much worse. Also, it forced you to stick together, which isn't always possible or preferable. That's why I like EM and Homing Missiles on these guys. It's MUCH more effective. One of your Tie Bombers usually dies fast, but can most likely get a missile off. I had Blinded Pilot on that guy last night in one game and he didn't get a perfect shot off at a guy with no tokens before he was blown up next round. It happens and you just accept that one guy won't use all his stuff (or even most of it).

Proximity Mines in formation cover a lot of space. People forget about them. Use this build vs. the same opponent and they learn it quickly. Still useful later in game, though. They tend to forget then. Also know that after they see it, they will not want to end up behind where you are. It makes them more predictable.

A few of us were theorycrafting after a league night. The basic idea was to get as many dice as possible. This is one version of what we came up with.

Miranda + Jan + Advanced Proton Torpedoes + Target Lock + Focus = Profit!

http://xwing-builder.co.uk/view/344790/crazy-eights

My Alpha strike list right now

Talonbane Cobra

-crack shot

-Glitterstim

N'dru

-Homing Missle

-crack shot

-Glitterstim

Binayre Pirate

-Concussion Missle

-Glitterstim

Syndicate Thug

-Twin Laser Turret

-unhinged astromech

-BTL title

-99pts

Play Cobra balls out...he WILL die. Get that range 1 shot in first. Do it while they are trying to figure out what to do about N'dru, who is looking to 1shot Soontir.

Thug just continues blasting...the only ship with true staying power.

Meanwhile, while you worry about that stuff, you wind up ignoring the Pirate who set up a tasty concussion missle shot even at PS1. BOOM!

At 99pts you even have a small bid.

Im having lots of fun with this right now.

I really think that Graz the Hunter with a Concussion Missile and Glitterstim is a good alpha strike to grab your opponent's attention. Stick him out there and expect him to die early, but get that shot off. You can also use Cluster Missiles.