I feel it should be like the hawk, with 1 primary attack, so that no one takes it without a turret. The missile boat should also have one attack, I think 0 is a stretch too far. The problem is that 6 health and 3 evade dice should cost at least 18 points, given that 5 health and 2 evades of the hawk costs 16.

I really like the concept of the high capacity launchers, where we can have unlimited missiles for a high point cost and using two missile upgrade slots.

Let's say we go with 4 missile and 1 torp upgrades. Use up two of the missile for high capacity launchers, then take maybe prockets, cluster missiles, and ion torpedos.

I could see a PS2 ship with a 5 dice short range (Prockets) and the two three dice attacks (Clusters) at range 2-3, or a super ion attack at 2-3. These upgrades would have cost 2+4+5 = 11 points without our high capacity launchers upgrade. So we are talking around 30 points before our high capacity launchers. Probably 6 points for high capacity launchers, for a total of 35 points.

And you still have slam and a potential for a title of some type.

It's not inconceivable that we may be getting more SLAM-capable ships in the future, and what is the only other ship in the lore with a SLAM?

Indeed. If FFG wasn't thinking of adding the Missile Boat at some point in the future, I don't think they would have made SLAM an Action. They would have made it some kind of K-Wing specific upgrade card.

I feel it should be like the hawk, with 1 primary attack, so that no one takes it without a turret. The missile boat should also have one attack, I think 0 is a stretch too far. The problem is that 6 health and 3 evade dice should cost at least 18 points, given that 5 health and 2 evades of the hawk costs 16.

I really like the concept of the high capacity launchers, where we can have unlimited missiles for a high point cost and using two missile upgrade slots.

Let's say we go with 4 missile and 1 torp upgrades. Use up two of the missile for high capacity launchers, then take maybe prockets, cluster missiles, and ion torpedos.

I could see a PS2 ship with a 5 dice short range (Prockets) and the two three dice attacks (Clusters) at range 2-3, or a super ion attack at 2-3. These upgrades would have cost 2+4+5 = 11 points without our high capacity launchers upgrade. So we are talking around 30 points before our high capacity launchers. Probably 6 points for high capacity launchers, for a total of 35 points.

And you still have slam and a potential for a title of some type.

I disagree with you about the attack, if we keep it at zero and make all the named pilots abilities combat buffs then we have to spend points to buy our attacks. This I think is more interesting because it would make a terrible blocker if it costs more than the academy pilot and incentivize us to invest more points into its payload.

Based on the legacy of the missile boat, (fast, evasive & lots of missiles) it'll have to come at a high point cost not to make it over-powered

It should be priced according to its performance, given that you pay for its ammunition, if the ship comes at a high point cost also it will never be taken.

I'd expect it to be priced similarly to a fully-loaded Corran, with damage output to match

Alternatively, a Munition Loadout title that prevents discarding of spent missiles or torps.

Exactly.

Except instead of having 3 Missile Slots, and 3 Torpedo Slots, I say just give it 4 Missile Slots, then have this:

Really make the Missile Boat into a MISSILE boat. Ya know?

I'm not sure this would even need to be a separate upgrade card at all. It's redundant - you just give the ship one missile slot and one torpedo slot, and build the ability and it's cost into the cost of the ship, and add the information onto a Missile Boat reference card. Like how the Cloak action and it's cost was built into the cost of the Phantom.

Having the ability as an upgrade card with limitations which takes up upgrade slots on the pilot card is just overcomplicating things for no good reason.

One primary attack is fine, and SLAM should be on there..

Advanced slam allowing you to pick up a target lock after slamming is good setup for the missile volley.

What I'd like to see is some sort of macross missile massacre option - the ability to empty off multiple missiles in one spread - maybe not your entire reserves, but if you could put out two concussion missiles attacks in one combat phase, you've suddenly got a very scary ship.

One primary attack is fine, and SLAM should be on there..

Advanced slam allowing you to pick up a target lock after slamming is good setup for the missile volley.

What I'd like to see is some sort of macross missile massacre option - the ability to empty off multiple missiles in one spread - maybe not your entire reserves, but if you could put out two concussion missiles attacks in one combat phase, you've suddenly got a very scary ship.

Sounds pretty cool. Again, you're looking at a comparision to Corran Horn though, except using ordnance, and as a ship ability, not a pilot ability.

If Corran wasn't already a thing I'd suggest some kind of Advanced SLAM/Fire Control System combo.

Take Target Lock

Fire Concussion Missile

Acquire second Target Lock through FCS

Fire again in the end phase

Weapons disabled (reload)

Advanced SLAM to reposition and acquire Target Lock for following turn...

It's the kind of mechanic which would seem to fit the Missile Boat pretty well...

It's not inconceivable that we may be getting more SLAM-capable ships in the future, and what is the only other ship in the lore with a SLAM?

Indeed. If FFG wasn't thinking of adding the Missile Boat at some point in the future, I don't think they would have made SLAM an Action. They would have made it some kind of K-Wing specific upgrade card.

I would love to see the Missile Boat, but I actually think we will see a Millenium Falcon-only SLAM before we see the Missile Boat. Now it is canon that the Falcon got an illegal military grade SLAM, while the MIS is still in the Legends limbo.

Lotta red in that dial for a ship that was actually really maneuverable.

But then, I never really felt like the ship SHOULD have been as maneuverable as it was considering it was basically a gunboat carrying 10x the ordnance. So I'm okay with that.

The MIS isn't the GUN with more ordnance. They share manufacturer, and that's pretty much it.

While the GUN was an assault fighter designed to be cost effective and to be produced en masse to join the Empire's lines, the MIS was a 100% experimental prototype with all the advanced tech they could stuff into, sparing no expense, of which they never made more than 12 of it.

They both have wings and a "crest". That's all.

Let's remember that the MIS with the SLAM disengaged had similar speed and maneuverability than the T/D.

I feel it should be like the hawk, with 1 primary attack, so that no one takes it without a turret. The missile boat should also have one attack, I think 0 is a stretch too far. The problem is that 6 health and 3 evade dice should cost at least 18 points, given that 5 health and 2 evades of the hawk costs 16.

I really like the concept of the high capacity launchers, where we can have unlimited missiles for a high point cost and using two missile upgrade slots.

Let's say we go with 4 missile and 1 torp upgrades. Use up two of the missile for high capacity launchers, then take maybe prockets, cluster missiles, and ion torpedos.

I could see a PS2 ship with a 5 dice short range (Prockets) and the two three dice attacks (Clusters) at range 2-3, or a super ion attack at 2-3. These upgrades would have cost 2+4+5 = 11 points without our high capacity launchers upgrade. So we are talking around 30 points before our high capacity launchers. Probably 6 points for high capacity launchers, for a total of 35 points.

And you still have slam and a potential for a title of some type.

I disagree with you about the attack, if we keep it at zero and make all the named pilots abilities combat buffs then we have to spend points to buy our attacks. This I think is more interesting because it would make a terrible blocker if it costs more than the academy pilot and incentivize us to invest more points into its payload.

I don't think I understand the comparison you make with the Academy Pilot.

Under no circumstances we should get a ship that, if flying naked, should be as cheap as the T/F. Even if only for lore reasons.

The MIS must be rare and non-spammable.

I am totally in for overcosting the naked ship so that the generics cannot be spammed, as long as it gets access to upgrades at an exceptional cheap cost, to even it out. It is actually the same solution they have made with the K-Wing: an overcosted generic balanced out with an undercosted TLT.

Regardless of that, even when the ship is called Missile boat, I don't see the reason why it should be limited to bear and shoot only missiles. It is known that it could be configured to carry both torpedoes, missiles, rockets and heavy bombs. And it always had a load of 40 concussion missiles.

The model clearly shows 4 oversized warhead launchers. So I would propose this:

• The cheapest generic MIS is PS3 with stats 1/3/2/4 and costs 33 points. That is 3 points more expensive than the cheapest T/D generic and clearly overcosted. This prevents the spamming of this ship on the board. This overcost is balanced out below.
• To represent the default standard load of the ship, every MIS has one special (free missile) upgrade slot. This is represented with the usual (missile) upgrade icon, but with a special outline. The player may equip a (missile) upgrade using this slot at no cost. Considering that the most expensive missile so far is the Homing Missile, that could count as a -5 to the initial overcost.
• Every MIS has also 2 (torpedo), and 2 (missile) regular upgrade slots. This allows for equipping other kind of ordnance plus the High Capacity Missile Launchers without using up the Modification slot, that many will want for Advanced SLAM, or other.
• Every MIS may equip the High Capacity Missile Launchers, with this alterations: It uses up a (torpedo) and a (missile) slot (instead of two missile slots). It costs 0 (to compensate for the MIS base overcosting). It is Missile Boat only. Its effect affects both missile and torpedo attacks.
• Every MIS has two (free system) upgrade slots. Considering that systems go between 2 and 4 points cost, this detracts about 6 to the initial overcost. This also allows for making a build like PS 3 MIS with FCS+Jammer+AT+Free Homing Missiles+Launchers for 35 points.
• The MIS comes with one unique title "Thrawn's Chosen" that allows to equip a "Beam" cannon at no cost.

If we consider that 1/3/2/4 is kind of similar to the TIE Bomber (2/2/6/0) that is 16 points at PS 2, or to the overcosted TIE Advanced (2/3/3/2) that is 21 points at PS 2, the naked PS3 MIS should fall around the 15-16 points, or less accounting for the Attack of 1.

To balance it out, we give it free upgrades worth 18 points in the form of free dual systems, free missiles, and free infinity extra munitions, and free beam weapon.

Even when this might look overpowered for a ship under 40 points, it still suffers from the poor action economy of ordnance, that will need to be dealt with by the named pilots.

I'd prefer to see it with a 1 2 4 4 stat line, with 3 missile slots, 1 torp slot, and a system slot. If memory serves, it wasn't very fast (except when slamming) or maneuverable, but could take a real beating. Give it a dial similar to K-wing. Target Lock, Focus, Slam for actions. Base points somewhere around 16 to 18 for a pilot skill 2, and upwards of 26 for the highest skill pilot, with a max PS of 7.

I haven't read every post but it seems everyone forgot something. A tractor beam was on the missile boat. So it needs to have that on the action bar as well. The tractor beam let the pilot snag those traitor piloted Admiral Zaarin scum TIE Defenders and obliterate them.

The point cost for this should, if FFG makes it, would be in line with TD points; not 16-18 points for a PS2. Barely any missile boats were created by the time the second Death Star exploded. Base ship would cost 31 or 32 points, should be 1/3/3/3, 2 missile and torp slots, system, and a cannon slot that is added by use of a title card to add the tractor beam only. A title at 5 points should simply say "you never discard your missiles/torp cards." Why? Because if you played the flight sim then you know you could go through an entire mission killing everything and if you were good enough; no need to reload and still have stuff left over ON HARD NOT EASY. Maximum PS should be 9 and Mareek Steele as the pilot. The End.

It's the successor to the gunboat isn't it?

It'd be odd if they released it before releasing its predecessor.

This.^

Release the Assault Gunboat first. Then we can start thinking about the MIS.

Lotta red in that dial for a ship that was actually really maneuverable.

But then, I never really felt like the ship SHOULD have been as maneuverable as it was considering it was basically a gunboat carrying 10x the ordnance. So I'm okay with that.

Yes, power creep is strong with this one [TIE Fighter video game].

and what is the only other ship in the lore with a SLAM?

Currently? The Millennium Falcon.

It's the successor to the gunboat isn't it?

It'd be odd if they released it before releasing its predecessor.

This.^

Release the Assault Gunboat first. Then we can start thinking about the MIS.

I'm pretty sure that we are owed both of them in the same wave now.

I'm not sure this would even need to be a separate upgrade card at all. It's redundant - you just give the ship one missile slot and one torpedo slot, and build the ability and it's cost into the cost of the ship, and add the information onto a Missile Boat reference card.

Which is not how the game works. No non-epic ship in the game has special rules that apply to all ships of it's type, including generics.

Cloak is a type of Action, not a unique ability of the TIE Phantom. Just because it's the only ship in the game that uses that action so far doesn't mean it's always going to be. Just like SLAM is not always going to be K-Wing only. Which is why it's an Action and not a K-Wing reference card.

So I was playing some TIE Fighter recently, and I went into the Tech room for some more stats on the missile boat. And by the stats that they give, it is as fast as an A wing, as shielded as a B-wing, with the hull value of an A-wing, roughly.

But also, from that Tech room, we see how incredibly good the defender is supposed to be. It was faster than the fastest ships, super maneuverable (honestly, that thing should have everything green if you take from how it flies in the game), and just overall extremely powerful.

It's the successor to the gunboat isn't it?

It'd be odd if they released it before releasing its predecessor.

Z-95 says hi.

But also, from that Tech room, we see how incredibly good the defender is supposed to be. It was faster than the fastest ships, super maneuverable (honestly, that thing should have everything green if you take from how it flies in the game), and just overall extremely powerful.

Just about THIS powerful.

It's the successor to the gunboat isn't it?

It'd be odd if they released it before releasing its predecessor.

Z-95 says hi.

The entire PT says hi!

But also, from that Tech room, we see how incredibly good the defender is supposed to be. It was faster than the fastest ships, super maneuverable (honestly, that thing should have everything green if you take from how it flies in the game), and just overall extremely powerful.

Just about THIS powerful.

Haha, sounds about right...

But also, from that Tech room, we see how incredibly good the defender is supposed to be. It was faster than the fastest ships, super maneuverable (honestly, that thing should have everything green if you take from how it flies in the game), and just overall extremely powerful.

Just about THIS powerful.

Haha, sounds about right...

that will never be thematic or balanced, no matter how many times it's reposted

that will never be thematic or balanced, no matter how many times it's reposted

And your opinion on the subject will never stop being wrong!

So I was playing some TIE Fighter recently, and I went into the Tech room for some more stats on the missile boat. And by the stats that they give, it is as fast as an A wing, as shielded as a B-wing, with the hull value of an A-wing, roughly.

But also, from that Tech room, we see how incredibly good the defender is supposed to be. It was faster than the fastest ships, super maneuverable (honestly, that thing should have everything green if you take from how it flies in the game), and just overall extremely powerful.

The Defender should have been super powerful. I don't care how many points it costs, but I want my TIE Defender to feel like a TIE Defender.

It's the successor to the gunboat isn't it?

It'd be odd if they released it before releasing its predecessor.

Z-95 says hi.

And is the Z-95 more popular than the X-Wing?

It's the successor to the gunboat isn't it?

It'd be odd if they released it before releasing its predecessor.

Z-95 says hi.

And is the Z-95 more popular than the X-Wing?

For list building? Hell yeah it is.