And if the TiE Fighter and/or Interceptors were not so week that might have some bearing, but to me when they pop so easy they are nonfactors.

Ignore those swarming non factors at your own peril.

Agreed. A pocket carrier (Expanded Hangars) Raider can easily manage a pair of fighter squadrons on the fly if necessary, and this combines well with the Instigator title to proc Swarm on Interceptor Counter attacks when engaging squadrons the entire "pod" is going after.

As a general rule I've found that successful use of TIE Fighters is highly reliant upon both bringing sufficient numbers as well as not being overly aggressive with them unless absolutely necessary. Anything that can weaken them before they can get their attacks in is a big problem, because they'll usually vanish in a single atttack against anything with 4+ blue dice if something can tag them for a damage point first. For that reason if you're flying them out front beyond fleet support range as skirmishers, they'll often disappoint you due to eating anti-squadron firepower (as the ships have nothing else to shoot at) and then being engaged and destroyed by other fighters.

And if the TiE Fighter and/or Interceptors were not so week that might have some bearing, but to me when they pop so easy they are nonfactors.

Ignore those swarming non factors at your own peril.

Agreed. A pocket carrier (Expanded Hangars) Raider can easily manage a pair of fighter squadrons on the fly if necessary, and this combines well with the Instigator title to proc Swarm on Interceptor Counter attacks when engaging squadrons the entire "pod" is going after.

As a general rule I've found that successful use of TIE Fighters is highly reliant upon both bringing sufficient numbers as well as not being overly aggressive with them unless absolutely necessary. Anything that can weaken them before they can get their attacks in is a big problem, because they'll usually vanish in a single atttack against anything with 4+ blue dice if something can tag them for a damage point first. For that reason if you're flying them out front beyond fleet support range as skirmishers, they'll often disappoint you due to eating anti-squadron firepower (as the ships have nothing else to shoot at) and then being engaged and destroyed by other fighters.

This is what I was trying to say, with only three health they just disappear from the map if you blink. I was not saying that you just let them do what ever, but they are so easy to kill they are almost a joke, now rebel fighters on the other hand have the health to stick around.

I think I've maybe seen one or two people hinting at this, but it doesn't seem to be the popular part of the discussion. What about using them as disposable blockers? They have the maneuverability to put them wherever you need your opponent to NOT be. I'm a big fan of VSDs, they just feel so right. Having a pair of Raiders on my flanks to park in the way as my opponents try to fly around me seems really helpful. If it buys me one more turn of frontal firepower with a VSD, it's worth it...

I think I've maybe seen one or two people hinting at this, but it doesn't seem to be the popular part of the discussion. What about using them as disposable blockers? They have the maneuverability to put them wherever you need your opponent to NOT be. I'm a big fan of VSDs, they just feel so right. Having a pair of Raiders on my flanks to park in the way as my opponents try to fly around me seems really helpful. If it buys me one more turn of frontal firepower with a VSD, it's worth it...

I suppose it depends on what you are trying to block. It certainly could work, but with the way this game works, (shoot, then move), it's highly probable that trying to block someone is going to result in you getting one-shotted, and not blocking anything (ie, VSD, ISD, Glad, AF, MC30 or 80). The ships that remain (Raider, CR90, Neb B are mostly fast enough that you might not successfully block them, at which point you've risked heavy firepower for no gain.

In any event, I don't know that selecting a raider specifically for the role of disposable blocker is cost effective way to use them, nor does it tap their full potential. Sure, you can use them as a blocker, but it can be used as much more than that, and even at only 48 points, is far too expensive to relegate them only to this lowly suicidal order.

I think I've maybe seen one or two people hinting at this, but it doesn't seem to be the popular part of the discussion. What about using them as disposable blockers? They have the maneuverability to put them wherever you need your opponent to NOT be. I'm a big fan of VSDs, they just feel so right. Having a pair of Raiders on my flanks to park in the way as my opponents try to fly around me seems really helpful. If it buys me one more turn of frontal firepower with a VSD, it's worth it...

I suppose it depends on what you are trying to block. It certainly could work, but with the way this game works, (shoot, then move), it's highly probable that trying to block someone is going to result in you getting one-shotted, and not blocking anything (ie, VSD, ISD, Glad, AF, MC30 or 80). The ships that remain (Raider, CR90, Neb B are mostly fast enough that you might not successfully block them, at which point you've risked heavy firepower for no gain.

In any event, I don't know that selecting a raider specifically for the role of disposable blocker is cost effective way to use them, nor does it tap their full potential. Sure, you can use them as a blocker, but it can be used as much more than that, and even at only 48 points, is far too expensive to relegate them only to this lowly suicidal order.

I'm not suggesting it's a complete throwaway, simply that some crafty placement could help mitigate the weaknesses of the other Imperial ships. Example: I've got multiple VSDs and I'm facing a few whales. I know that my opponent wants to skirt around me while keeping broadsides on me. Since I can pre-measure whatever I like, I can take the time to see where he's going to want to end up the next turn. If I park my Raider where he wants to be, it makes him either fly into me, thus slowing down and buying me time, or turn away, which limits shots in further turns. Plus, if the Raider lives (which it should only have taken long range fire the previous turn), then it's in good black die position.

I guess I'm suggesting more of a defensive role, letting the VSDs continue to do the heavy lifting while the Raiders do their best to mitigate my weaknesses. I find that all too often ONE more round of frontal fire from my VSDs will finish ships, where a side arc falls just short.

Others have mentioned it here. Seeing the Raider ONLY as an anti-fighter ship is a mistake. Fighters are always better at dealing with other fighters. So 6 Ties are better than a Raider at dealing with enemy squadrons.

But what Ties can't do is strafe a mess of fighters from it's side arc AND punch a hole in an enemy ship from it's front. And at 44 points base for the Raider I, you suddenly have two or three super maneuverable ships that can jump into a Mon Cal Cruiser's rear and sit there forever. While also attacking swarming fighters with two anti-squadron dice. Which is badly needed as that large beast of a ship is a monster from it's sides, especially with Ackbar at the helm. In fact, Raiders can negate Ackbar's advantage by giving the Rebel player a difficult choice of whether or not to shoot at the Raiders and lose the extra armament from the sides.

In the end, the Raider's role is support. It's there to plug gaps in the normally sluggish Imperial strategy by countering attacks coming from the sides and squadrons ... while also then being used opportunistically to help the other ships focus fire on one target.

Blocking an AF, MC30, or MC80 from the front is the best possible place to be. It's only really the VSD and ISD you don't want to block. The VSD is slow enough it doesn't need to be blocked, the ISD is huge and while fast, it's not impossible to keep tracking (and lots of the time it will be angling towards you anyway)

Blocking an AF, MC30, or MC80 from the front is the best possible place to be. It's only really the VSD and ISD you don't want to block. The VSD is slow enough it doesn't need to be blocked, the ISD is huge and while fast, it's not impossible to keep tracking (and lots of the time it will be angling towards you anyway)

This, this is what I mean. If I can set up my Raiders to "catch" an AF for a turn, then my Raider is in the ideal place it can be AND I just kept my target from sneaking around behind my VSD. I think a pair of Raiders (and maybe a couple tractor beams) will keep my VSDs on target and dispensing the pain, while still giving the Raiders an opportunity to throw some black dice themselves.

Tried out my Raider-I with Expanded Launchers and Ordnance Experts last night. I was uncertain about whether I'd like the Launchers or not - the upgrade makes the little guy pretty expensive.

I was pleasantly surprised. With the Raider's superb maneuverability (especially at speed 2) I was able to get into a good spot vs. an Assault Frigate and due to its Command 1 it was easy to choose a Concentrate Fire command at the right moment. Unleashing a salvo of 5 rerollable black dice and 2 blue dice from such a little ship is very impressive, and I was able to lock down the Brace, allowing me to destroy the Assault Frigate.

I'll be trying this build out a bit more to see how I like it. So far so good. It's definitely got maneuverability that a GSD does not, barring some rough equivalence with Engine Techs and a ready supply of Navigate tokens.

Tried out my Raider-I with Expanded Launchers and Ordnance Experts last night. I was uncertain about whether I'd like the Launchers or not - the upgrade makes the little guy pretty expensive.

I was pleasantly surprised. With the Raider's superb maneuverability (especially at speed 2) I was able to get into a good spot vs. an Assault Frigate and due to its Command 1 it was easy to choose a Concentrate Fire command at the right moment. Unleashing a salvo of 5 rerollable black dice and 2 blue dice from such a little ship is very impressive, and I was able to lock down the Brace, allowing me to destroy the Assault Frigate.

I'll be trying this build out a bit more to see how I like it. So far so good. It's definitely got maneuverability that a GSD does not, barring some rough equivalence with Engine Techs and a ready supply of Navigate tokens.

What ships/squadrons did your opponent bring and same question for you?

How many points in your game?

Did your opponent bother shooting at the raider or see it as mostly a non-threat (prior to your roll of course).

What hull did you attack on your opponent?

I like the set up here:

What ships/squadrons did your opponent bring and same question for you?

I will also add in that most recent game that as deeply tempting as it was to just plow into the squadron blob and pour tons of damage into them, they were on the left-center side of the table and getting in there would've meant taking fire from 2+ ships and probably some bombers. It would've been suicide. So I stuck to the outside right flank and used it to support my VSD(s) in handling the Assault Frigate.

Perfect answers all around snipafist!

You gave me exactly what I was wanting to know--especially why your opponent had to activate to shoot another ship instead of it.

I have one too but have yet to get it on the table. It just seems like it would be too fragile and would work better as a pair of raiders instead of alone.

Perfect answers all around snipafist!

You gave me exactly what I was wanting to know--especially why your opponent had to activate to shoot another ship instead of it.

I have one too but have yet to get it on the table. It just seems like it would be too fragile and would work better as a pair of raiders instead of alone.

Thanks!

For what it's worth, I think it could've weathered a single attack from the Assault Frigate (with definite damage to the hull, though). Two of them would've been trouble, though.

You need to be very considerate of their positioning to keep them safe, which isn't too tough to do given how maneuverable and responsive (Command 1) they are. They're definitely not a frontline ship (like a VSD or ISD), however, and I'd recommend keeping them on the edges of the battle, aiming to get a solid shot in and then sneak around behind, harrying slower ships from their weakest arc. I agree with you that I'd love to use them in pairs (my earlier game where I used the Raider-I to support the Demolisher worked out fairly well, so in theory it's working all right with an upgunned somewhat-similar partner) but at the moment I only have my one Sullust-won Raider so he's flying solo.

I have no experience with Raider-IIs, having been focusing on just the Raider-I profile so far. I'd think the improved blue dice front arc could help you get more use from the Evade tokens (in medium range) and allow harassment a turn earlier at the expense of a few more points and losing access to the powerful (but risky) ordnance upgrades in favor of the more circumstancial ion cannon upgrades.

I have no experience with Raider-IIs, having been focusing on just the Raider-I profile so far. I'd think the improved blue dice front arc could help you get more use from the Evade tokens (in medium range) and allow harassment a turn earlier at the expense of a few more points and losing access to the powerful (but risky) ordnance upgrades in favor of the more circumstancial ion cannon upgrades.

Yeah, I'm having a lot of fun with the Raider-I and trying to find the right place/time for the Raider-II.

It wants to be paired with Screed and some Ion upgrades, which just don't *seem* as potent as Ordnance upgrades considering the increased cost.

That said... Overload Pulse + Avenger looks delicious.

Yeah, I'm having a lot of fun with the Raider-I and trying to find the right place/time for the Raider-II.

It wants to be paired with Screed and some Ion upgrades, which just don't *seem* as potent as Ordnance upgrades considering the increased cost.

That said... Overload Pulse + Avenger looks delicious.

Yeah, Screed or Vader would be ideal for triggering the crit effects. Vader in particular can make great use of the Evade tokens when you're at short range and they wouldn't help you anyways. Ordnance Experts in particular have been a solid 4 point investment both times I've used the Raider-I, even with Screed. You can get a lot of reliable damage on ships and the damage it does to squadrons at short range gets impressive.

I like Overload Pulse + Avenger as well as the NK-7 Ion Cannons (discard defense tokens). I'm sure sooner or later we're going to get an Enhanced Armament-style upgrade for ion cannons, but that's a wave 3 hope at the soonest and nothing to be counted on.

Yeah, I'm having a lot of fun with the Raider-I and trying to find the right place/time for the Raider-II.

It wants to be paired with Screed and some Ion upgrades, which just don't *seem* as potent as Ordnance upgrades considering the increased cost.

That said... Overload Pulse + Avenger looks delicious.

Yeah, Screed or Vader would be ideal for triggering the crit effects. Vader in particular can make great use of the Evade tokens when you're at short range and they wouldn't help you anyways. Ordnance Experts in particular have been a solid 4 point investment both times I've used the Raider-I, even with Screed. You can get a lot of reliable damage on ships and the damage it does to squadrons at short range gets impressive.

I like Overload Pulse + Avenger as well as the NK-7 Ion Cannons (discard defense tokens). I'm sure sooner or later we're going to get an Enhanced Armament-style upgrade for ion cannons, but that's a wave 3 hope at the soonest and nothing to be counted on.

My experience is that Vader makes a great Crit-machine on the Gladiator, but is unreliable on the Raider.

Screed seems like the go-to admiral if you're hoping to score crits off that little guy reliably.

Yeah, I'm having a lot of fun with the Raider-I and trying to find the right place/time for the Raider-II.

It wants to be paired with Screed and some Ion upgrades, which just don't *seem* as potent as Ordnance upgrades considering the increased cost.

That said... Overload Pulse + Avenger looks delicious.

Yeah, Screed or Vader would be ideal for triggering the crit effects. Vader in particular can make great use of the Evade tokens when you're at short range and they wouldn't help you anyways. Ordnance Experts in particular have been a solid 4 point investment both times I've used the Raider-I, even with Screed. You can get a lot of reliable damage on ships and the damage it does to squadrons at short range gets impressive.

I like Overload Pulse + Avenger as well as the NK-7 Ion Cannons (discard defense tokens). I'm sure sooner or later we're going to get an Enhanced Armament-style upgrade for ion cannons, but that's a wave 3 hope at the soonest and nothing to be counted on.

My experience is that Vader makes a great Crit-machine on the Gladiator, but is unreliable on the Raider.

Screed seems like the go-to admiral if you're hoping to score crits off that little guy reliably.

Sorry, I should have been more specific: Vader for triggering crits on the Raider-II (presumably from the front arc shot). 4 blue dice (Concentrate Fire) and a reroll seems workable. I agree that Vader is not reliable for triggering crits on the Raider-Is due to the lower number of black dice (three if you're using Concentrate Fire).