Two black dice at black range vs. anything in one arc... fares pretty well when compared with, say 3 blue dice shot at distance 1 vs. a single squadron...

I would argue that it is better than 3 Blue. 2 Black is almost worth 4 blue.

Vs. squadrons 2 black is exactly 3 blue in terms of damage (1.5), but without the chance of accuracies and less range, so not quite as good. But if you can target more than 1 squadron per volley the total result can be much better.

You are right. I always forget on here that the crits don't count when talking about anti-squadron

That's what I've been trying to say lyraeus. Esp with the simple math there. It's 1.25 average not 2.

Two black dice at black range vs. anything in one arc... fares pretty well when compared with, say 3 blue dice shot at distance 1 vs. a single squadron...

I would argue that it is better than 3 Blue. 2 Black is almost worth 4 blue.

Vs. squadrons 2 black is exactly 3 blue in terms of damage (1.5), but without the chance of accuracies and less range, so not quite as good. But if you can target more than 1 squadron per volley the total result can be much better.

You are right. I always forget on here that the crits don't count when talking about anti-squadron

That's what I've been trying to say lyraeus. Esp with the simple math there. It's 1.25 average not 2.

*1.5

.75+.75 = 1.5. Assuming no rerolls.

Two black dice at black range vs. anything in one arc... fares pretty well when compared with, say 3 blue dice shot at distance 1 vs. a single squadron...

I would argue that it is better than 3 Blue. 2 Black is almost worth 4 blue.

Vs. squadrons 2 black is exactly 3 blue in terms of damage (1.5), but without the chance of accuracies and less range, so not quite as good. But if you can target more than 1 squadron per volley the total result can be much better.

You are right. I always forget on here that the crits don't count when talking about anti-squadron

That's what I've been trying to say lyraeus. Esp with the simple math there. It's 1.25 average not 2.

*1.5

.75+.75 = 1.5. Assuming no rerolls.

+ Ordnance Experts = 2

Exact maths, probably.

I was trying to remember the math for rerolls the other day. I'm pretty sure it puts the average here at 1.875.

Hmm, it hadn't occured to me that Ordnance Experts would apply to AA black dice. Now, is that extra 4 points worth it to effectively make each black die have a 15/16 chance of hitting? Considering the number of attacks you can pump out against squadrons in a single round, combined with the fact that it also works against ships, I'm thinking it may well be worth it.

With regards to the range issue on the AA, I'm suspecting that it's not going to be that big of a problem as long as you're using the Raider as a hunter rather than shield. By this I mean that you have to actively move your Raider into range 1 of the target squadrons rather than hoping for the squadrons to fly close to you. Of course, usually the enemy squadrons would then be able to fly away, so for this tactic you would either have to pin down the enemy with squadrons of your own (or Instigator), or you would have to pick on squadrons that have previously actived earlier on in the round.

Make your Raider a Threat and the Squadrons will come to you to deal with you...

Win/Win.

Otherwise, its a Rhymer Ball that's hunting you, in which case, you hunt the Hunter aggressively to pin down and kill them...

I've run my Raider all of once (trying it out again tomorrow most likely) and the Raider-I with Ordnance Experts puts out some intense flak fire versus squadrons, coming out to just below 2 average damage per squadron. Once combined with other flak or preferably a small fighter escort, it gets pretty ugly pretty quickly.

With Screed it's a reliable source of ACM crits. Resolve the front arc shots first, with rerolls from Ordnance Experts. You should hopefully get a crit there. Then shoot the side arc and use Screed to get another crit. Absolutely not reliable with other commanders, but quite useful with Screed. It stands to reason that Overload Pulse on a Raider-II could also see a good payoff with Screed, but this is unconfirmed by my play experience. I'm also curious if it would be worth trying to abuse NK-7 Ion Cannons with Screed and 2-3 Raiders. It's an expensive upgrade, but stripping a capital ship of 2-3 defense tokens in a turn seems pretty **** mean.

Maneuverability at speed 2 is unparalleled and helps for mop-up duty on both other capital ships as well as squadrons who got stuck in a furball. It's decent at 3 or 4 (on the approach) but speed 2 is where it really struts its stuff. At command 1 you can apply the Navigate brakes on a dime and the extra yaw helps as you're working your way down to speed 2.

Also seems to like playing little brother to the Demolisher, who it can keep up with.

So far I'm liking it. Just be careful due to the lack of Redirect tokens. It can take a solid hit with the brace, though, and Engineering commands are generally more useful for pushing shields around (it has 2 on each facing) than for regenerating them, all things considered.

One other nice little use I haven't seen mentioned yet is for Objective hunting - where the CR90 was a nice option for Rebels, the Imps now have the same thing.

Two black dice at black range vs. anything in one arc... fares pretty well when compared with, say 3 blue dice shot at distance 1 vs. a single squadron...

I would argue that it is better than 3 Blue. 2 Black is almost worth 4 blue.

Vs. squadrons 2 black is exactly 3 blue in terms of damage (1.5), but without the chance of accuracies and less range, so not quite as good. But if you can target more than 1 squadron per volley the total result can be much better.

You are right. I always forget on here that the crits don't count when talking about anti-squadron

That's what I've been trying to say lyraeus. Esp with the simple math there. It's 1.25 average not 2.

*1.5

.75+.75 = 1.5. Assuming no rerolls.

blue black here. .5 + .75.

Black black is 1.5 but only at close range.

Two black dice at black range vs. anything in one arc... fares pretty well when compared with, say 3 blue dice shot at distance 1 vs. a single squadron...

I would argue that it is better than 3 Blue. 2 Black is almost worth 4 blue.

Vs. squadrons 2 black is exactly 3 blue in terms of damage (1.5), but without the chance of accuracies and less range, so not quite as good. But if you can target more than 1 squadron per volley the total result can be much better.

You are right. I always forget on here that the crits don't count when talking about anti-squadron

That's what I've been trying to say lyraeus. Esp with the simple math there. It's 1.25 average not 2.

*1.5

.75+.75 = 1.5. Assuming no rerolls.

blue black here. .5 + .75.

Black black is 1.5 but only at close range.

Oh. You're one of those guys, with the Raider -II 's.

I stand sort-of corrected.

I thought for sure one of the titles was going to make criticals count as hits on squadrons, but I was wrong. I actually have used the carrier to some avail (granted it was in a Tarkin list for reliable squadron tokens).

In the movies, ISDs get taken down by fighters a lot. So, I'm glad they went with this.

but seriously, that raider though. freaking sh*tty AA.

black dice are what, 4hits, 2crit+hits, 2 blanks? .75 chance of a hit! EW! Take months to kill a Bwing.

Blues are what... 4hits, 2crits, 2focuses? thats .5 chance.

So on a blue black roll, you average 1.25 damage? THATS TERRIBLE.

But the black is the best possible die for dealing damage. Also remember that you are getting an attack at each squadron in range, *if the squadron in question does not have scatter* .

It's not perfect, but it's cheap for what it does, and Raiders can lock squadrons down, too.

*Fixed that for you.

In every situation you would want to use a raider for anti squadron duties, I'd rather have a few tie interceptors in all seriousness. 4 blue dice (minimum) producing an average of 2 damage (more than the raider) and can achieve accuracy results negating character damage mitigation effects (scatter/brace), movement 5 (roughly equivilant mobility), and a re-roll due to swarm will produce more damage (per interceptor with a minimum of 4 interceptors for 1 raider) to squadrons in all instances every single time while also giving 4 blue dice combined vs capital ships (slightly less vs capital ship for damage 2 vs 2.5 in the front arc, more if double arc firing). If howlrunner gets thrown into the mix, it stops being a fair comparison at all vs squadrons and heavily biases towards the interceptors due to the offensive dice moving to 5 and the counter dice moving to 3 (even point trade by upgrading one interceptor to howl runner if quad laser turrets are included on the raider to gain counter for more "parity"). Sure, the raider is more durable individually (hull + shields roughly would be like having 6 hull character squadron), but collectively the interceptors come out ahead if added together.

Yeah they "need" squadron commands now and again from a carrier, but then again, you could just bring 2-3 fire sprays or aggressors instead of the raider and come out ahead in basically all instances.

A counter for intel?

*Fixed that for you.

*if the squadron in question does not have scatter* .

Honestly, throwing a couple of blacks at them, and doing enough damage to draw out the Scatter, before the Interceptors throw 5 Dice at them, is the best use of it, I feel...

Its either they choose not to use it, in which case, you're dealing reliable damage, or they start burning the scatter before the big damage blocks hit.

- Useful during deployment. As arguably the most maneuverable ship on the table right now, you can place a Raider almost anywhere as your first deployment and still be able to re-position him to deal with enemy counter-deployment before engagement begins. Very non-committal for very few points.

This is probably the most useful feature the ship brings to the table.

*Fixed that for you.

*if the squadron in question does not have scatter* .

Honestly, throwing a couple of blacks at them, and doing enough damage to draw out the Scatter, before the Interceptors throw 5 Dice at them, is the best use of it, I feel...

Its either they choose not to use it, in which case, you're dealing reliable damage, or they start burning the scatter before the big damage blocks hit.

Yeah, but... 5 blue are going to pop an accuracy to lock out the scatter anyhow.

Two black dice at black range vs. anything in one arc... fares pretty well when compared with, say 3 blue dice shot at distance 1 vs. a single squadron...

I would argue that it is better than 3 Blue. 2 Black is almost worth 4 blue.

Vs. squadrons 2 black is exactly 3 blue in terms of damage (1.5), but without the chance of accuracies and less range, so not quite as good. But if you can target more than 1 squadron per volley the total result can be much better.

As apples to apples as you can try and craft the scenario, the raider would have to be netting 5 squadrons in arc to be pulling ahead since base point cost is equivilant to 4 tie interceptors (this assumes re-rolls for the raider and none due to swarm for the interceptors).

Two black dice at black range vs. anything in one arc... fares pretty well when compared with, say 3 blue dice shot at distance 1 vs. a single squadron...

I would argue that it is better than 3 Blue. 2 Black is almost worth 4 blue.

Vs. squadrons 2 black is exactly 3 blue in terms of damage (1.5), but without the chance of accuracies and less range, so not quite as good. But if you can target more than 1 squadron per volley the total result can be much better.

As apples to apples as you can try and craft the scenario, the raider would have to be netting 5 squadrons in arc to be pulling ahead since base point cost is equivilant to 4 tie interceptors (this assumes re-rolls for the raider and none due to swarm for the interceptors).

*Fixed that for you.

*if the squadron in question does not have scatter* .

Yep. That's the nature of defense tokens, they modify the results of the attack dice/damage taken. Not every opponent has Scatter, not every opponent will use it.

2 blacks are still better than 1 blue for AS dice, even if you consider Scatter.

*Fixed that for you. *if the squadron in question does not have scatter* .

Yep. That's the nature of defense tokens, they modify the results of the attack dice/damage taken. Not every opponent has Scatter, not every opponent will use it.

2 blacks are still better than 1 blue for AS dice, even if you consider Scatter.

*Fixed that for you. *if the squadron in question does not have scatter* .

Yep. That's the nature of defense tokens, they modify the results of the attack dice/damage taken. Not every opponent has Scatter, not every opponent will use it.

2 blacks are still better than 1 blue for AS dice, even if you consider Scatter.

I get to make you use your scatter before my Rogues come in to hit you? Sounds great to me!

Yeah, if you have dedicated superiority squadrons coming in then your opponent doesn't have a good choice. Spend Scatter now to save two damage guaranteed, or save it to hopefully not get it accuracy'd, and hopefully block more than two. That doesn't sound like a fun decision to make, lol.

Ideally any scatter-TIE should also have an Escort. Only way to mitigate the above. But oh, those points...

Impetuous and Ruthless Strategists?

- normal squadron shooting - 1.5 hits, plus ruthless guaranteed extra hit - 2.5 hits.

followed by Impetuous shooting at a key enemy squadron - another 1.5 hits plus ruthless - 5 hits in all.

Just remember, tie pilot pensions come out of your salary!

I wouldn't expect the raider to take down squadrons by itself, but it is certainly a good specialist if you want to use it as an anti squadron escort.

EDIT: Some more thoughts.....

1) It should be obvious, but there is no such thing as 1.5 hits - you will either get zero, one or two per volley. This is significant if you are engaging a wing of fighters a once - say 4 targets, you will probably get say one hit three times and a double hit on one. This makes Impetuous and ruthless particularly nasty at picking off weakened targets, as does the follow up fire from the now rather miffed tie squadrons.

2) alternatively, this is also a good potential use of squadron commands off the raider, especially if you have a token also. Bringing in a pair of ties not only feeds the ruthless strategists but again weakens some targets making them easy prey for the ruthless/impetuous combo.

In short, the raiders raw damage may not sound that great by itself, but it seems to be able to ramp up scarily quickly. It certainly seems to favour taking a moderate amount of cheap ties to enhance the damage you can do quickly.

This thing is a right-hook that your opponent will not see coming.

Raider-I, Expanded Missile Launchers, Ordnance Experts.

I sat two of these at the edge of my deployment zone, angled towards my enemy's flank. He ignored them at first, so used to slow-moving Imperials. Turn three, these things were sitting right at the side of his fleet, and blew their massive loads into a juicy Nebulon, turning it to space junk.

Some pointers:

1) One Command Dial: Makes this ship extremely flexible. Gather a navigate token early on, and you can pretty much guarantee to put yourself right where those black dice will do the most damage.

2) Maximum Firepower!: With that one command dial, you can guarantee you have a Concentrate Fire set up for your big unloading attack. With that in mind, and the Expanded Missile Launchers, I tend to dish out 4 Blacks and 3 Blues. Seven dice from a single attack? That's Star Destroyer territory. What's better is, three blues gives you decent chance to get Aims. That Nebulon can't use either of its braces, and you just hit its side arc? Yeah, it's gonna go down in one shot if you get decent roll

3) Works great with the ISD: By the time the Raider engages the enemy fleet on its flanking move, your opponent has a really tough choice to make: devote firepower to take down a "little" threat to his side, or focus everything on the enormous ISD that's heading straight at him. In my matches thus far, players who've focused down the ISD have killed it, only to have their fleet then facing nothing else, with their rears open to my Raiders, who finish the job the ISD started. In other matches, when someone peels off ships to engage the Raiders, anything else against the ISD will not be enough to take it out, leaving the ISD free to assist the Raiders when it's finished with its previous targets.

Two black dice at black range vs. anything in one arc... fares pretty well when compared with, say 3 blue dice shot at distance 1 vs. a single squadron...

I would argue that it is better than 3 Blue. 2 Black is almost worth 4 blue.

Vs. squadrons 2 black is exactly 3 blue in terms of damage (1.5), but without the chance of accuracies and less range, so not quite as good. But if you can target more than 1 squadron per volley the total result can be much better.

As apples to apples as you can try and craft the scenario, the raider would have to be netting 5 squadrons in arc to be pulling ahead since base point cost is equivilant to 4 tie interceptors (this assumes re-rolls for the raider and none due to swarm for the interceptors).

. If you only treat the Raider as an anti-squadron tool, and ignore is battery potential, then this is true.

And if the TiE Fighter and/or Interceptors were not so week that might have some bearing, but to me when they pop so easy they are nonfactors.

Two black dice at black range vs. anything in one arc... fares pretty well when compared with, say 3 blue dice shot at distance 1 vs. a single squadron...

I would argue that it is better than 3 Blue. 2 Black is almost worth 4 blue.

Vs. squadrons 2 black is exactly 3 blue in terms of damage (1.5), but without the chance of accuracies and less range, so not quite as good. But if you can target more than 1 squadron per volley the total result can be much better.

As apples to apples as you can try and craft the scenario, the raider would have to be netting 5 squadrons in arc to be pulling ahead since base point cost is equivilant to 4 tie interceptors (this assumes re-rolls for the raider and none due to swarm for the interceptors).

. If you only treat the Raider as an anti-squadron tool, and ignore is battery potential, then this is true.

And if the TiE Fighter and/or Interceptors were not so week that might have some bearing, but to me when they pop so easy they are nonfactors.

Ignore those swarming non factors at your own peril.