Leave those tiny raiders to patrolling for smugglers and pirates and the like. Take a proper ship into naval engagements like any true Imperial would: as a rule of thumb, if a ship is smaller than 500 meters or doesn't have 'Star Destroyer" in its name its not worth bringing.

Spoken like a truly arrogant, Dangerous-to-your-starfleet-Commander-not-to-this-battle-station Imperial admiral.

Leave those tiny raiders to patrolling for smugglers and pirates and the like. Take a proper ship into naval engagements like any true Imperial would: as a rule of thumb, if a ship is smaller than 500 meters or doesn't have 'Star Destroyer" in its name its not worth bringing.

Spoken like a truly arrogant, Dangerous-to-your-starfleet-Commander-not-to-this-battle-station Imperial admiral.

You're going run the trench in a RAIDER???? How wide do you think that trench is?

I am no help in keeping this thread on topic.

I am no help in keeping this thread on topic.

I blame it on a lack of wave 2 stimulation to the brain's logic circuits.

I think the Raider will be an enabler/wrangler/chaser.

Enabler - 2 Raiders with OLPs paired with an Avenger ISD under Vader or Screed. Try to OLP 2 enemy targets infront of the ISD, and then ISD with Gunnery team just pounds away.

Wrangler - Prolly with a missile upgrade, not opposed to expanded bays. Chase ships sort of like Demolisher used to. When You are being Outflanked use your Raider to try and get behind them and give chase. An ISD with 4 Raiders might be really tough to deal with as they have a pretty potent payload and you still have to worry about the ISD.

Chaser - The Imperial Mindset seems to be one of the joust. Full steam ahead we will smite thee with our forward barrages. They rely on a very brutal offensive and its represented but their ship designs and even in game terms. I have used squadrons to chase ships I've severely damaged and finish them off. The raider may be better at this roll. Deploy them behind your jousting ship and as you pass each other the Raider can land the killing blow and end it. Hard in practice, but has huge pay off.

I have not played the raider yet or really looked at it. I will start with buying 2 and go from there. I am interested in a few lists with them as I think they add some much needed maneuverability.

back to topic, yay!

so, in regards to the Raider, I propose the ultimate premise of "the GSD is simply a better ACM platform; don't do it." The GSD has far more durability and far more punch in that regard, so we can forgot about that for the Raider and focus instead on something it is uniquely able to do

Raider-1

1.) Expanded Launchers (57)

**still think it's far too situational to ever see play, but that's a lot of dice and better low speed maneuverability. Comes out to 1 more point than a naked GSD-1. Add ordnance experts for 61 points.

2.) Instigator/Impetuous + ordnance experts (52)

short range is kinda sucky, but that's a potential four black dice at some poor squadron or an easy way to tie down enemy fighter screens

still quite decent versus ships, given the reliability of blue dice and re-rollable black dice

Ordnance experts work both v ships and squadrons

Raider-2

1.) Ion Cannon Crit Battery

OLP, Ion Cannon Batteries,NK-7s; whatever. This is the cheapest ion platform for the imperials, and the imperials have Skreed to guarantee results

OLP is probably the most immediately useful, as NK-7 gets too slow since it's the opponent's choice of token (need to exhaust; can't even use twice a round). OLP + Avenger sounds nasty

so, in short, the Raider is:

1.) a mini-better-than-VSD

2.) an anti-squadron Capital ship that isn't bad against other ships

3.) an Ion Platform ripe for Skreed abuse

OLP?

!Ole, pendejo!

or Overload Pulse

I see the raider with instigator title as being good to lock down bombers that are backed up by intel when flying next to another more valuable ship, like an isd.

Is it worth 44-48 points for the ship then 4 more for the title in that role? Hard to say, but i doubt it.

Yes, OP would be just a bit OP

The Raider's roll is clearly to be the smallest component in the triangle of triangles. It's just a shame we can't fit 1 ISD, 2 VSDs and 4 Raiders in a fleet.

I see the raider with instigator title as being good to lock down bombers that are backed up by intel when flying next to another more valuable ship, like an isd.

Is it worth 44-48 points for the ship then 4 more for the title in that role? Hard to say, but i doubt it.

ditto

but I fly B-wings, and would heartily welcome anyone willing to throw away a capital ship for free

against imperial mirror or other 1-dice anti-ship squadrons, though, it could be great for force unfocused fire

I think one of the Raider's strengths will be it's versatility.

People have talked about how poor it's Anti-Squadron fire (or choose your favorite term ) is are ignoring that it can't be engaged and tied down. It also gets to make it's attacks against any squadron that are in it's arc and in range. This can add up to a lot.

Also, if the other players squadrons are a credible threat, then using one of your ship's attacks for Anti-Squadron work is not wasted and it all adds up in the end - it's probably better to kill the carrier (if there is one), but killing the squadrons is a close second.

The raider gives you the option of doing both:

1. circle at speed 2 and hammer them with your Anti-Squadron dice

2. fly past them and let loose with the torpedoes at something else.

As an aside, Demolisher on a Glad2 can be quite handy in an Anti-Squadron role is push comes to shove as you can often hit squadrons with 4 blue dice (shoot from arc1, move, then shoot them again from arc2)

I see the raider with instigator title as being good to lock down bombers that are backed up by intel when flying next to another more valuable ship, like an isd.

Is it worth 44-48 points for the ship then 4 more for the title in that role? Hard to say, but i doubt it.

ditto

but I fly B-wings, and would heartily welcome anyone willing to throw away a capital ship for free

against imperial mirror or other 1-dice anti-ship squadrons, though, it could be great for force unfocused fire

If I were to use this, I'd use it in a similar fashion as suggested in the article -- with a couple squadron friends trucking along with it--- probably a pair of advanced.

It's an interesting idea but just doesn't seem to be worth the points even though it does lock down intel'ed bombers.

I see the raider with instigator title as being good to lock down bombers that are backed up by intel when flying next to another more valuable ship, like an isd.

Is it worth 44-48 points for the ship then 4 more for the title in that role? Hard to say, but i doubt it.

Not if that's all you can use it for, but it's not.

I've been running a pair of Raiders pretty regularly with a variety of outfittings and roles, so I'll share my thoughts:

- NOT a good platform for ACM/APT. It just isn't, not without Screed. Even with Vader or Ordnance Experts, there just aren't enough black dice to make it happen reliably. Screed or go home.

- Surprisingly tough to kill with that single brace when compared to the much one-shottier CR-90. More vulnerable to a series of smaller attacks than one big attack.

- LUDICROUS SPEED, GO! But seriously, you can afford to lose most of the shields and hull during an attack run, then simply speed out of range.

- Speed 2 maneuverability is unmatched. I love this speed on the Raider.

- Anti-squadron black dice are potent. Very potent. Alone they do a decent amount of damage, paired with Ordnance Experts they are all but guaranteeing two damage against every squadron at close range. Also, close range is hardly a huge problem for the Raider. Seriously, the medium range band is TINY, you're losing very little range.

- The anti-squadron raider wants fighter escort. I can't stress this enough. Both Instigator and Impetuous are fantastic titles against an opponent running squadron medium-to-heavy, but if your Raider doesn't have a couple lowly TIEs on hand to take the bomber heat off, it probably won't last long.

- Raider + Expanded Hangars is shockingly effective. With its single command dial, you have unparalleled flexibility in this regard. Add a Veteran Captain and on one turn you can activate three. The Raider's somewhat meagre armament is made significantly more dangerous when a target has been softened by a pair or trio of bombers. The Raider itself provides nice anti-fighter cover for bombers.

- Raider + Expanded Launchers + Vader = damage. Honestly, this ship makes a better torpedo than one with either ACM or APT. To heck with special crits, go for raw damage with accuracies.

- Useful during deployment. As arguably the most maneuverable ship on the table right now, you can place a Raider almost anywhere as your first deployment and still be able to re-position him to deal with enemy counter-deployment before engagement begins. Very non-committal for very few points.

In closing: I love the Raider. Seriously, it's a great little ship that lends a flexibility to Imperial fleet building we haven't seen yet.

In the movies, ISDs get taken down by fighters a lot. So, I'm glad they went with this.

but seriously, that raider though. freaking sh*tty AA.

black dice are what, 4hits, 2crit+hits, 2 blanks? .75 chance of a hit! EW! Take months to kill a Bwing.

Blues are what... 4hits, 2crits, 2focuses? thats .5 chance.

So on a blue black roll, you average 1.25 damage? THATS TERRIBLE.

I mostly agree. However, this works best against a cloud of enemy fighters in one arc. Suddenly that is 1.25 damage against every squadron that gets into range. Combined with a fighter screen that could be pretty effective.

I am hoping this is not the case, cuz that AA is pretty crap. ><

You mean an Average of 2 damage at a range that is longer than Distance 1 is bad?

In the movies, ISDs get taken down by fighters a lot. So, I'm glad they went with this.

but seriously, that raider though. freaking sh*tty AA.

black dice are what, 4hits, 2crit+hits, 2 blanks? .75 chance of a hit! EW! Take months to kill a Bwing.

Blues are what... 4hits, 2crits, 2focuses? thats .5 chance.

So on a blue black roll, you average 1.25 damage? THATS TERRIBLE.

Cap ship AAA was always about accumulating damage over several rounds, preferably used in conjunction with squadrons to keep the enemy in place.

My experience is that 2-3 ships firing more than 1 AAA dice + some TIEs can make a real impact, even on hull 5-6 squadrons.

3 hull TIEs just melt away.

4 CR90's were able to kill 2 B-Wings in 2 turns of AA fire. . . Got one of the CR90 A's though!

Two black dice at black range vs. anything in one arc... fares pretty well when compared with, say 3 blue dice shot at distance 1 vs. a single squadron...

Two black dice at black range vs. anything in one arc... fares pretty well when compared with, say 3 blue dice shot at distance 1 vs. a single squadron...

I would argue that it is better than 3 Blue. 2 Black is almost worth 4 blue.

Two black dice at black range vs. anything in one arc... fares pretty well when compared with, say 3 blue dice shot at distance 1 vs. a single squadron...

I would argue that it is better than 3 Blue. 2 Black is almost worth 4 blue.

Vs. squadrons 2 black is exactly 3 blue in terms of damage (1.5), but without the chance of accuracies and less range, so not quite as good. But if you can target more than 1 squadron per volley the total result can be much better.

Two black dice at black range vs. anything in one arc... fares pretty well when compared with, say 3 blue dice shot at distance 1 vs. a single squadron...

I would argue that it is better than 3 Blue. 2 Black is almost worth 4 blue.

Vs. squadrons 2 black is exactly 3 blue in terms of damage (1.5), but without the chance of accuracies and less range, so not quite as good. But if you can target more than 1 squadron per volley the total result can be much better.

You are right. I always forget on here that the crits don't count when talking about anti-squadron

Unless I'm missing an important rules distinction, Instigator (the one that causes enemy squadrons to be engaged) doesn't let enemy fighters shoot at any ships period simply because engaged squadrons cannot shoot at ships.

Unless I'm missing an important rules distinction, Instigator (the one that causes enemy squadrons to be engaged) doesn't let enemy fighters shoot at any ships period simply because engaged squadrons cannot shoot at ships.

They still can shoot at ships if there are no squadrons in range 1.

Instigater prevents enemy squadrons to escape the Flak, which has a good chance to deal 2 damage to a squadron.