Hi everyone!

I have been playing for a couple of months, I play Imperials. I have a league coming up and I plan to play a list with Soontir, Whisper and Omega Ace.

Question is, how do you plan turn 0 and the battle plan. I struggle at this and sometimes I start the game with not much clue of what to do next other than just fly around and try not to get killed.

Can you help me with thoughts, opinions or resources to learn a bit more?

Thanks in advance!

Plans never survive contact with the enemy.

Pick your primary target then set your ships up to go after it, don't second guess yourself once you've committed.

If you go in with a rigid plan you'll lose, being adaptable is important but not something that can be taught.

The basic question I always ask myself is "do I or my opponent benefit from having a denser asteroid field". That determines how I lay out the rocks, which is a big part of turn zero.

The first thing I do is decide where I want the obstacles to go. If my enemy has more ships than I do I will usually work to create a cluttered battlefield.

If, instead, I am the one playing a swarm I will try to push the obstacles out of the center of the map.

When placing ships it is important to know their role. Do you have a lone-wolf? Is your squadron a hammer-and-anvil? Then you may want to place your ships in two groups separated by a lot of space. If you are depending on concentration of fire from several ships then you will need to put them all together at the start and fly as a swarm.

I like to put large turret ships against the edge of the board to block at least one side from being flanked and to maximize their maneuver options.

Take all of this with a grain of salt, though. I've only been playing the game for a couple of months.

"Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win."
Sun Tzu

check this out, very useful article from our WC

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2014/3/20/turn-zero/

turn zero is a big, rich topic. when faced with the task of positing axiomatic principles, I always find myself instead fleeing to safety with concrete examples instead. flying a swarm? put those rocks in the corner, far away from your dudes. flying against a swarm? plop a three asteroids close to each other in the middle of the board and try to goad the swarm into flying towards it. flying aces with PTL? don't take debris fields. flying maneuverable, barrel-rolling, boosting ships? dense asteroid fields are your friend. flying big boosting ships? build nice, open lanes for them to fly and boost through. flying against brobots? bring debris fields, and arrange them close to your side of the board in anti-sloop formations. etc

One thing I often do is feint. Even if I don't have a solid plan for what to do afterwards. That usually forces my opponent to re prioritize.

Basically, if I'm set up to joust, my first moves are all hard turns away from the enemy's joust vector to drag them into an unexpected region of the board for engagement.

This is obviously dependent on what ships each side has fielded, but it's a useful thing to have in the mental toolbox.

check this out, very useful article from our WC

https://www.fantasyflightgames.com/en/news/2014/3/20/turn-zero/

turn zero is a big, rich topic. when faced with the task of positing axiomatic principles, I always find myself instead fleeing to safety with concrete examples instead. flying a swarm? put those rocks in the corner, far away from your dudes. flying against a swarm? plop a three asteroids close to each other in the middle of the board and try to goad the swarm into flying towards it. flying aces with PTL? don't take debris fields. flying maneuverable, barrel-rolling, boosting ships? dense asteroid fields are your friend. flying big boosting ships? build nice, open lanes for them to fly and boost through. flying against brobots? bring debris fields, and arrange them close to your side of the board in anti-sloop formations. etc

Sozin hit the asteroid placement already, it can make a huge difference.

When you have your asteroids placed, either to get in your opponent's way or to get out of yours, then think about what your opponent's list is good at compared to yours. Jousting list across from you? Stay out of arcs or at least at range 3 and drag them into the asteroids, also separate your ships so he has to choose who to go after and your other two ships can flank. Two ship meta list? Decide who the biggest threat is and try to nail 'em down, don't switch targets if you can help it, that's what he wants.

Play to your opponent's weaknesses and your strengths, but always come up with an initial plan, it's better to have a bad plan than to be indecisive in my experience. Once the game develops you can change your priorities.

+1 to everything said so far. Your turn 0 battle plan will also change based on different opponents and different lists. The best way to further develop your turn 0 plan is to get more experience playing against all those other lists. Vary your current turn 0 plan and see how it pans out through the match. Closer asteroids, split deployments, single squad deployed all within range 1, etc. Try it all and get a broad range of experience on your list!

Thanks!!! I look forward to play again!

One issue you might be having is that you have ships that benefit from different initiative states. Soontir really doesn't want initiative -- he wants to see where all his foes are going so he can appropriately arc dodge. Whisper, on the other hand, wants initiative so she can attack first, which will net her a focus token on a hit (and other goodies, based on setup, such as Advanced Cloaking Device and Fire Control System).

If you've built Whisper differently, it matters less, but I think this isn't helping your turn 0 planning from the get-go.

I know this because I ran a Whisper+Fel list for awhile, but would struggle on either ship, depending on where initiative fell.

I guess you could call it hedging your bet, so one ship has the ideal setup no matter what... but there are better ways to do that.

One other thing:
It has recently been proven that a perfect execution of placement with 5 large obstacles would prevent a 6th from being laid.

Approximating that field is an excellent way of forcing the field-size against your opponent, if you have initiative.

Paraphrased from the Flight School topics that are around somewhere deep in the archives:

Throw a bunch of asteroids on the table at home, have your list fly circles around each asteroid without bumping.

Add a few ships in predictable patterns, try to stay out of their arcs while keeping them in yours.

Stay within a certain range for a few circles.

Put some markers on the table, have your ships reach those markers as exactly as possible in two turns.

This way, you will familiarize yourself very highly with the dials and the maneuvering capabilities of your ships and can be done in an afternoon or two. That will help very much in evaluating where to place the asteroids and your ships come setup time.

It will also speed up your decision making in the planning phase, and your confidence, both of which will unnerve your opponent to some degree.

1. mostly, go for the denser field since you ahve more maneuverable ships.

2. start in a corner

3. pick a ship you hate and shoot it dead. And don't stop and waste fire. Look at it. Stare at it and bring it down. Concentrate all fire upon it.

---

There. Plan 0.

Shoot the stabby ones, stab the shooty ones.

Wait this isnt a 40k forum, soryy...

I always take the biggest rocks, arrange them towards the middle and then start in a corner and sweep in towards the middle in an attempt to goad my opponent near the rocks.

Shoot the stabby ones, stab the shooty ones.

Wait this isnt a 40k forum, soryy...

More dakka!

One issue you might be having is that you have ships that benefit from different initiative states. Soontir really doesn't want initiative -- he wants to see where all his foes are going so he can appropriately arc dodge. Whisper, on the other hand, wants initiative so she can attack first, which will net her a focus token on a hit (and other goodies, based on setup, such as Advanced Cloaking Device and Fire Control System).

If you've built Whisper differently, it matters less, but I think this isn't helping your turn 0 planning from the get-go.

I know this because I ran a Whisper+Fel list for awhile, but would struggle on either ship, depending on where initiative fell.

I guess you could call it hedging your bet, so one ship has the ideal setup no matter what... but there are better ways to do that.

How did you end up adjusting your list?

Thanks everyone, very good advice!!!

don't second guess yourself once you've committed.

This. I think most games I lose is because I either second guess myself or don't follow through and kill the priority ship.

Hi everyone!

I have been playing for a couple of months, I play Imperials. I have a league coming up and I plan to play a list with Soontir, Whisper and Omega Ace.

Question is, how do you plan turn 0 and the battle plan. I struggle at this and sometimes I start the game with not much clue of what to do next other than just fly around and try not to get killed.

Can you help me with thoughts, opinions or resources to learn a bit more?

Thanks in advance!

I use a similar list as of a few weeks (epsilon leader instead of omega). guess the different fighter really -does- lead to different playstyles, but there a few things in common, too.

-obstacles: you want plenty of space for the phantom, dense fields for the other two (at least I do). best to clog up a part of the field and leave others wide open.

-we have pretty good PS, so most times we see where our opponent sets his ships up; use that knowlegde to really think about which ship would like to play where (not necessarily in the setup-phase, but later).

-play to win, not to "exterminate"; in quite a lot of games for me quickly after success comes "bloodlust"; this is where my ships die usually, though unneccessarily. it's okay (good!) to resist bloodlust and fly something safe that will give you an advantage a turn or two later.

-remember all the "specials" about your list; like the focus-after-hit, like the cloak. more important: learn when it's good NOT to cloak. many times I find myself in a position (usually when things run smooth, as I tend to not think things trough and see everything too relaxed) - only to have taken that cloak token without thinking and not have a good route to decloak from there. in turn, that leads to fewer shots from your list and more opportunities for the other guy to turn things around. something you should REALLY avoid.