It is not intended that they should win tournaments; but which versions should I go for?

I would have preferred max' them out, but there obviously not enough points for that, but what do I cut off?

My "max'ed version", where I am missing 3 points:

Omicron Group Pilot (21)
Emperor Palpatine (8)

Darth Vader (29)
Predator (3)
Advanced Targeting Computer (1)
Engine Upgrade (4)
TIE/x1 (0)

"Deathrain" (26)
Advanced Sensors (3)
Extra Munitions (2)
Proximity Mines (3)
Proximity Mines (3)

Total: 103

https://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Galactic%20Empire&d=v3!s!56:-1,-1,132,-1:-1:-1:;22:57,-1:23:3:U.124;144:43,126,-1,-1,-1,28,28:-1:-1:

Do I cut one of Deathrains prox.mine, and go light on ordnance? Should Vader fly without Engine Upgrade?

Give Vader VI to free two points. Then replace Advanced Sensors with Enhanced Scopes for a total of 4. Use the extra point to upgrade one of the Proximity Mines to a Conner Net. AS look nice on paper, but ES do more for you. Flying first is worth a lot when you are a minelayer. Conner Nets are fantastic to kill aces and Vader works well with VI, giving him an edge when fighting Soontirs and other Vaders.

why Deathrain with the big man?

he doesn't really benefit a whole lot from palpy (remember, your opponent rolls the prox mine damage; palpy only works on APL/projectots)

Agreed. Maybe go with the topics title and try Redline instead: http://geordanr.github.io/xwing/?f=Galactic%20Empire&d=v3!s!56:-1,-1,132,-1:-1:-1:;143:36,126,58,14,-1,-1,-1:-1:15:;22:27,-1:23:17:U.124Vader doesn't get the EU here, though, since Redline is a notch more expensive. Personally I would swap Vader for a slim Soontir and have the first Palpmobil list that actually interests me, but Vader is strong.

Clearly a mix-up from my side between Redline and Deathrain :-/

I think that I have come to the conclusion that the three in the same list, are not working.

I have to slim, one or more of them; down too much...

Punishers are hard to use with how expensive they are. Redline is fantastic with a miniswarm, Deathrain fits well into lists with aces, where he can be the ace-slayer while your ace hammers the groundwork of the opponents list.

Punishers are hard to use with how expensive they are. Redline is fantastic with a miniswarm, Deathrain fits well into lists with aces, where he can be the ace-slayer while your ace hammers the groundwork of the opponents list.

How would you set up a redline + mini swarm?

Haven't given much thought to that, but I would guess it is highly matchup dependant. Has your opponent the firepower to kill Redline faster than he kills things? set him up protected by the swarm. Does he not/has he set up in a way that he does not? Flank with him to make one of your threats go uncontested.

How would you set up a redline + mini swarm?

I'd probably go with something like:

Redline + Fire Control System + Cluster Missiles + Plasma Torpedoes + Extra Munitions + Autothrusters (40)

Academy Pilot x5 (12 * 5 = 60)

I'm curious how it would play, though. Has anyone tried a list like that or fought against it?

I dont find Autothrusters worthy for only 1 dice.

I dont find Autothrusters worthy for only 1 dice.

They'd be most effective against range 3 primary weapons. 2 dice plus convert a blank to an evade. However, I'm not sure whether they're worth it, either.

How would you set up a redline + mini swarm?

I'd probably go with something like:

Redline + Fire Control System + Cluster Missiles + Plasma Torpedoes + Extra Munitions + Autothrusters (40)

Academy Pilot x5 (12 * 5 = 60)

I'm curious how it would play, though. Has anyone tried a list like that or fought against it?

I believe Paul Heaver played something similar on a recent VASSAL tournament, with Flechettes instead of Plasmas, the logs are burried somewhere in the forum.

I dont find Autothrusters worthy for only 1 dice.

Do you have any math backing that up? I agree that it is not a priority autoinclude upgrade, but it is 2 points well spend if those aren't missing anywhere else. Certainly a better mod for Redline than Munitions Failsafe.

I believe Paul Heaver played something similar on a recent VASSAL tournament, with Flechettes instead of Plasmas, the logs are burried somewhere in the forum.

Hmm, the only VASSAL replays I see are in this thread, and I don't see a Redline + swarm list there.

Another version that might be interesting is to swap the 5 Academy Pilots for 4 Black Squadron Pilots with Crack Shot. It might fit a bit better with the glass cannon style of Redline -- try to take down some enemies quickly. And vs. aces, PS4 still works fine for blocking.

I'm not sure if Black Squadron + Crack Shot is worth it without Howlrunner backing them up, though.

http://teamcovenant.com/tcaces/2015/08/27/team-covenant-aces-season-2-week-2/

There we go. Actually he paired Redline with Soontir and a Doomshuttle. Maybe a logfile is somewhere else on the site. I am convinced to have seen his name in connection with Redline + miniswarm, though...

There we go. Actually he paired Redline with Soontir and a Doomshuttle. Maybe a logfile is somewhere else on the site. I am convinced to have seen his name in connection with Redline + miniswarm, though...

Interesting. That looks like a list with a fairly heavy anti-ace bias. Conner Net, Flechette Torpedoes, and Vader are all ways to hurt or impair targets without having to make it through defense dice, plus you have Soontir to fight aces on their own terms.

I'm curently fielding, "redline" the 40 point version -AT, vessery +VI, and the Omega ace+ PTL + Steleth d. And I like it there is almost always a TL for Vess and having the Omega ace in your face makes someone think about shotting redline and the steleth device helps protect him sometimes, either way they are not shoting at redline who will be shoting at them.

I'd like to keep AT on redline but I've found other uses for those points that play better.

I've taken redline about twenty times now and I like him/her but it needs help and distractions with other ships.

There we go. Actually he paired Redline with Soontir and a Doomshuttle. Maybe a logfile is somewhere else on the site. I am convinced to have seen his name in connection with Redline + miniswarm, though...

Interesting. That looks like a list with a fairly heavy anti-ace bias. Conner Net, Flechette Torpedoes, and Vader are all ways to hurt or impair targets without having to make it through defense dice, plus you have Soontir to fight aces on their own terms.

Redline, not Deathrain. No Conners here, although Deathrain could be good in a similar list.

Redline, not Deathrain. No Conners here, although Deathrain could be good in a similar list.

According to the site, pheaver was running Redline with Conner Net (in addition to missiles). Certainly not as flexible as the same thing on Deathrain, but I can see it still being useful.

Ah, I missed that.