Hello there Armadians,

Me and some other forumers are trying to get together a deck plan of the Imperial Raider, however there is a bit of a problem:

The Raider was made last year by FFG to compliment their X-Wing and Armada tabletop games; and as such it is almost completely loreless.

Things we know.

We know it was designed by same person who designed the Imperial and Executor class Star Destroyers: Lira Wessex.

We know that it is 150 metres in length and has 6 double guns and 3 engines. (All of which can be seen on the model.)

We know from the cards, that it has a cargo bay, a hard point and one crewed section in the front, and a second cargo bay, most of the crewed areas, two more hard points, and the c&c in back. (It is tapered, there's less room up front.)

And we know that it is a dedicated anti-starfighter vessel, as per it's usage in the games.

Things we kind of know.

Using this mess of extrapolation: http://i.imgur.com/71tH7r6.jpg

We've estimated the height of the ship to be ~28-30 metres at the stern, and ~6-8 metres at it's thickest habitable point at the fore.

From the Cutter used here, and the Corellian Corvette, we've estimated 160 crew members and 16-ish officers as crew.

With 8X the crew of the Cutter, we can guess that this ship would require roughly 8X the facilities for the crew. (The box on the right is filled with sections of 8X rooms from the Sentinel packed together to give a rough idea of how much 8X is scale-wise.)

Things we don't know.

How many decks should it have?

What is the general layout?

What are the cutouts along the sides for? Airlocks, docking pays, robotic arms of some sort?

The usual TIE question for the panels (don't want to focus here, just how would their function differ from that of TIEs.)

~and~

What are the functions aboard a military ship? The SW Corvettes are roughly as massive as contemporary Guided Missile Destroyers, and have roughly the same function.

Former military experience would be appreciated here. Most of our military experience is second-hand, and while this is Star Wars we are designing a military ship. We would not like to misrepresent military operations, even in science fiction. (Plus it's better to get it out here, than to post the plans and hear "They would never do that onboard a real ship.")

So, anything we should be aware of; floorplans, operations, day-to-day hijinks, that you think is relevant: fire away.

That's what we have: we'll be making topics similar to this in a few threads to get the broad spectrum of opinions.

Looking at pictures of the model, the cutouts on the side appeared to be crew docking, but having the model in hand they appear to be more service connections. I'd assume loading ports for tibanna gas and ordnance.

Regarding the TIE panels, I go with my favorite interpretation of the original TIE wings, in that they are heat radiators. Both the TIE fighter and the Raider share one common feature, they are very small for the size and power of the weaponry they boast. In each case it would make sense that great amounts of heat would need to be expelled, and why not a black radiator panel with maximum surface area?

Now, speaking to the day-to-day function of the Raider and it's crew, I don't know that the Raider would have facilities to sustain a crew for more than a few days.

Looking at the craft, it doesn't appear like it's mean to land or even dock with non-specialized vessels, with the only visible crew hatches being small and located along the dorsal surface.

I would theorize that space is at a premium on the Raider (since it has to have pretty extensive ordnance racks, always being shown launching concussion missiles and sporting black dice in Armada) so things like a galley, crew quarters etc wouldn't exist or would at least be extremely sparse. More likely the ship is serviced and stored aboard a larger craft (like, for instance, an Imperial Star Destroyer) and launched as needed for patrol or engagement using the tractor beam just like a big ol TIE fighter.

The Raider is, after all, not meant to be a stand alone craft at all, but anti-fighter support to the larger Imperial cruisers.

Not military, but fairly knowledgeable about Star Wars lore.

I suspect that you are vastly over-estimating the crew compliment. In Star Wars, fighters are powrful and even weak fighters can pack a significant punch. I suspect that a large portion of the Interior space is armor for the habitable areas, as well as combined munitions storage space. I would expect that the average Raider has minimal human interaction and instead most anti-fighter qualities are handled by droids and computers. Given the required reaction time against fighters, this makes significant sense. I can't imagine a combat crew of above 40, with a small handful on the bridge and the remainder assigned to duties such as munitions maintenance, loading, and a compliment in the event of manual targeting. As well as a few for basic ship security.

As for the panels, I can see a few potential options. They could be radiators. They could be a form of combined radar emitter. They could be for basic power collection especially if the ship is largely firing physical munitions. It's also entirely possible they are capable of physical manipulation to improve handling in an atmosphere, which is far more important for a ship designed to intercept fighters capable of atmospheric operations than it might be on a small fighter designed explicitly to operate in a vacuum far from planetary bodies.

As for the exposed superstructure, it's likely largely related to servicing of the craft. Munitions ports, refueling, etc. This ship seems like the sort that would be boarded or disembarked in an atmosphere or in a hanger bay, where complex boarding maneuvers are less necessary. The idea of a soldier abandoning not only goes against the idea of dedicated fighter support trying to buy time for squadrons to evacuate, but also the spirit of the Imperial Navy itself.

I think this is awesome!

I agree with Tvayumat that the panels are hear radiators. That's been established as far as TIE fighters are concerned. With the Raider, I'm curious why one would need to radiate heat, when there's a big fat thruster to flush any excess heat out of. Maybe in order to allow it to remain stationary?

In regards to what thecactusman17 is saying about the crew complement, I'd agree that you wouldn't want to take the CR90 as a model for how many crewers there should/can be. The CR90 is primarily a civilian vessel that has CEC's modular customizability. The Raider is a military vessel.

While we know it as an anti-fighter craft that can protect larger capital ships, because we play Armada, I'm not convinced that that's what it's primary function is within the Imperial Navy. The Imperial Navy already has a great anti-starfighter (AS) platform: namely the TIE fighter. The Raider has a capability that the TIE fighter does not: a hyperdrive. I'd hazard to say that the corvette is a patrol craft designed to work away from the fleet, and it has AS defenses because that's the most likely threat out there on the Outer Rim. To me that also suggests that it should have the capability to cruise for longer periods of time, and therefore doesn't have a large crew complement to suck on oxygen and other resources.

I would disagree with thecactusman17 about droid-activated AS weaponry. The Imperial Navy was shaped by the Clone Wars, which I imagine would have left it very leery about allowing droids to have access to too many guns.

But these are my own thoughts on the matter. I've certainly spent a lot of time thinking and reading about the Imperial Navy, but I'm interested to see if you all have enlightening counter-opinions.

EDIT:

Incidentally, here's a forum thread on a roleplaying forum called the Rancor Pit. There was a discussion about the Raider there last year that you might want to revive. The people posting there can usually provide some interesting insight. I used to be a regular there, but since I started playing FFG games, I've stopped hanging out there.

Anyway, the link: http://www.rancorpit.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=5095&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0

Mikael I'm with you on the extended mission implementation. While certainly it's great at defeating snubfighters, it's good against all small craft, I'm willing to bet it would have been extensively used against small time pirate bands, a few Z-95s and some light freighters don't deserve anything as big as a VSD, or even a Neb, but they might be able to cause enough problems to merit a response. This ship seems well suited to both anti-squadron capital support, and independent small-ship hunting.

As for using the solar panels as a heat radiator, it's possible that it was included almost exclusively for combat situations to make sure that it's weapons loadout doesn't stress any other heat reduction configuration too much.

I would expect that the ship would include a complement of soldiers. Likely not very many, but the possible need of a space station/ship boarding operation, or a surface operation seemslikely enough to plan for. Plus many other Imperial ships tend to have a pretty high number of soldiers.

Cool project, Although I wouldn't worry to much about real life comparisons to naval construction I will give you some insight from someone who spent time living aboard a navy vessel.

1. Mission comes first. When a ship is designed the layout seems to have every piece of equipment placed then berthing as an after though. You would be amazed at the places they can stick a rack (Bed in Navy terms, beds are generally stacked 3 high) sometimes you would have a space with a few racks stuffed in a corner and sometimes you would have large 60 man berths. Also heads (bathrooms/showers) are not always attached to the berthings. They can be where it makes since but often times you will have several small berths sharing a head. (I remember on the ship I was stationed on I had to walk through the galley to take a shower.

2. med bays and galleys. Galleys are the only exception to the rule where living requirements are an afterthought. Galleys are usually used as triage areas during battle or on-board emergencies. for this reason they are usually placed next to the med bay.

With these two rules in mind I would place weapons, bridge, engine rooms etc where they make since then place med-bay/ galley then living areas

With the Raider, I'm curious why one would need to radiate heat, when there's a big fat thruster to flush any excess heat out of. Maybe in order to allow it to remain stationary?

I figured because it's able to mount such large weapon systems, like turbolasers.

The lack of turbolasers on the model (despite that being essentially standard armament in all the games I've played with it) caused me to go ahead and add them.

In this configuration, the panels make sense to me.

I would look at some cut always of submarines (newer the better) to get an idea of what realistic requirements are for a naval ship.

With the Raider, I'm curious why one would need to radiate heat, when there's a big fat thruster to flush any excess heat out of. Maybe in order to allow it to remain stationary?

I figured because it's able to mount such large weapon systems, like turbolasers.

The lack of turbolasers on the model (despite that being essentially standard armament in all the games I've played with it) caused me to go ahead and add them.

In this configuration, the panels make sense to me.

I think this guy can tell us what the inside of a raider is like. =P

With the Raider, I'm curious why one would need to radiate heat, when there's a big fat thruster to flush any excess heat out of. Maybe in order to allow it to remain stationary?

I figured because it's able to mount such large weapon systems, like turbolasers.

The lack of turbolasers on the model (despite that being essentially standard armament in all the games I've played with it) caused me to go ahead and add them.

In this configuration, the panels make sense to me.

I think this guy can tell us what the inside of a raider is like. =P

Canonically, the only approved cargo for the Raider is a 9v battery.

Well as far as deck layout i don't have much input but as far as crew complement and how it would work along with all its armament to kind of fill out the deck plan requirements, look into the DP20 frigate or Corellian Gunship. (star wars wiki link http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/DP20_frigate)The DP20 looks to have similar armament and is even a little shorter than the Raider and has sort of the same layout as the raider. I would compare the Raider to the DP20 instead of the CR90 in the lore because both are combat vessels and as others have mentioned the CR90 is not a primary military vessel.

Alright, so from my experience a ship of this class will have about 50 crew on board.

You will have the CO, XO, weapons officer, engineering officer, Intel Officer (or chief), supply chief (maybe a low rank officer in this position also known as logistics), medical officer, and comms officer.

Forgot one other, there will be a chief who is in charge of all the Enlisted personnel's welfare. He she is usually a Senior Chief or Master Chief (E8 or E9 respectively) and is in charge of making sure that the Enlisted personnel are treated fairly, taken care of and represented when officers are making decisions. There is usually a chaplain of some sort as well but since religion is rare in Star wars (to a degree) there most likely won't be one here.

The above are the main leadership and are the Division commanders under the CO and XO. The XO will usually be a LT Commander or Commander (gold oak leaf or silver oak leave respectively), any chief in a position is someone with YEARS of experience.

As for standard crew. . . We are looking at 5 to 10 in engineering (this includes engines, hull techs who make sure the piping systems and hull are in good order, and electricians). In modern navies there is not a huge need for many weapon crew but for Star Wars I would say another 6 to 8 total, then there is supply which is your laundry, food, ship store, and logistics which should be another 4 to 6, then you have maintainers for the aircraft (modern navies have Helo's) or TIEs in this care which should be 6 to 8, medical will have 1 doctor and 2 to 3 nurses. Beyond that you have comms which has several people and lastly you undesignated who run about 10 to 20 strong, they are looking to gain a rate (job/field of expertise).

I know in my Intel days that only E6 and above held billets where a junior officer could be. This is important because on smaller ships, you and the rest of the crew are your fire fighters, emt's, etc. You get trained on multiple systems so that in case of emergency you can do a critical job with some skill and are able to be lead by someone more experienced. Oh there will be a chief for every division which on larger ships are split into several divisions but on a small ship like this there will likely be only 1 of each.

Berthing's are usually towards the ship center with tiny hallways that requires people to turn sideways partially to fully to allow people to pass by each other, ladder wells are on the outside and any elevators will be I'm the center to get the most decks. Mess halls will also be in the center and a chief mess will be either above or below in an area less likely to get destroyed in an attack. The officers berthing's will be on the same level as many of the main berthing's but in "officer country" which was designated in the Navy with blue tile. This area has a fancy mess deck for the officers only. On small ships this will also count as a briefing room.

Hope this helps. If you have questions just ask. It is 2am for me so I know I am missing important things.

Forgot one other, there will be a chief who is in charge of all the Enlisted personnel's welfare. He she is usually a Senior Chief or Master Chief (E8 or E9 respectively) and is in charge of making sure that the Enlisted personnel are treated fairly, taken care of and represented when officers are making decisions.

This doesn't seem particularly empire-like, but I would expect the empire to have a commissar or political officer from the ISB or ubiqutorate who might serve the "same" function.

Another thing that I wrestled with when I was assisting in a deckplanning project for an ISD is how many shifts a ship runs. I've heard that submarines run on a different number of hours per day, because day and night doesn't matter for a submarine. The same could be true of a spaceship.

On my project, I just decided to go with 3 shifts with 3 persons to do each job. Of course, on my ISD project I knew the number of crew to allocate (MANY), and had a hard time thinking about what to have them all do. Lyraeus's mentioning of undesignated people seems like a good and easy fix to that. (Thanks!)

We ran 12 hour shifts on the Ronald Reagan and Carl Vinson. That is the norm. After the 12 hours you have the other 12 for medical, workout (small room for that), and secondary training (warfare training so that each person can do a bit of everything with the guidance of someone who is well trained). This usually leads to 18 to 20 hour days. Which was my normal for both 7 month deployment

We ran 12 hour shifts on the Ronald Reagan and Carl Vinson. That is the norm. After the 12 hours you have the other 12 for medical, workout (small room for that), and secondary training (warfare training so that each person can do a bit of everything with the guidance of someone who is well trained). This usually leads to 18 to 20 hour days. Which was my normal for both 7 month deployment

So, essentially two crews - a day and night crew?

We ran 12 hour shifts on the Ronald Reagan and Carl Vinson. That is the norm. After the 12 hours you have the other 12 for medical, workout (small room for that), and secondary training (warfare training so that each person can do a bit of everything with the guidance of someone who is well trained). This usually leads to 18 to 20 hour days. Which was my normal for both 7 month deployment

So, essentially two crews - a day and night crew?

We ran 12 hour shifts on the Ronald Reagan and Carl Vinson. That is the norm. After the 12 hours you have the other 12 for medical, workout (small room for that), and secondary training (warfare training so that each person can do a bit of everything with the guidance of someone who is well trained). This usually leads to 18 to 20 hour days. Which was my normal for both 7 month deployment

So, essentially two crews - a day and night crew?

More crew usually on the day shift to a degree. So in a 5 person ration days would have 3 and grave 2

What about positions that require readiness, but don't see a lot of action? e.g. crews for weapons systems. Do those guys just hang out by the weapon all shift, polishing the ordnance?

The Enlisted do things such as, Cleaning, readiness drills, training, some of them get assigned to other positions which is called TAD (Temporary Additional Duty) wish is extra personnel get assigned to positions that don't have or dont get enough personnel like Master-at-Arms, galley duty, supply, etc.

Some people go TAD to other positions to get cross training.

My curiosity is what the Boatswain's will be in the Imperial Navy. . .

Forgot one other, there will be a chief who is in charge of all the Enlisted personnel's welfare. He she is usually a Senior Chief or Master Chief (E8 or E9 respectively) and is in charge of making sure that the Enlisted personnel are treated fairly, taken care of and represented when officers are making decisions.

This doesn't seem particularly empire-like, but I would expect the empire to have a commissar or political officer from the ISB or ubiqutorate who might serve the "same" function.

To be fair most command master chiefs that I knew did more to enforce the COs will than represent the enlisted people to the CO. You are correct that a Political officer or Loyalty officer would probably be a good replacement for the Empire for this position.

Forgot one other, there will be a chief who is in charge of all the Enlisted personnel's welfare. He she is usually a Senior Chief or Master Chief (E8 or E9 respectively) and is in charge of making sure that the Enlisted personnel are treated fairly, taken care of and represented when officers are making decisions.

This doesn't seem particularly empire-like, but I would expect the empire to have a commissar or political officer from the ISB or ubiqutorate who might serve the "same" function.

I bet those that didn't like it were promoted to "airlock maintenance" and not heard from again.

Forgot one other, there will be a chief who is in charge of all the Enlisted personnel's welfare. He she is usually a Senior Chief or Master Chief (E8 or E9 respectively) and is in charge of making sure that the Enlisted personnel are treated fairly, taken care of and represented when officers are making decisions.

This doesn't seem particularly empire-like, but I would expect the empire to have a commissar or political officer from the ISB or ubiqutorate who might serve the "same" function.

To be fair most command master chiefs that I knew did more to enforce the COs will than represent the enlisted people to the CO. You are correct that a Political officer or Loyalty officer would probably be a good replacement for the Empire for this position.