I apologize in advance if this post appears somewhat similar to the one below it (Newbie Observations). Also, many references are made to Warhammer: Invasion, so those of you who have played the latter may better understand what I am trying to say.

I bought and have been playing Warhammer: Invasion. That is a fantastic game and has gotten me thinking about other LCGS... hence I recently bought the CoC core set since I mostly play 2 player (I hear AGOT is more fun with multiplayer).

To get to the point, I am disappointed in CoC. I'm not sure if my playing style has been influenced by Warhammer: Invasion or if I have become spoiled by it, but I find CoC very slow. There are only 3 domains to begin with, meaning you can only play 3 cards max (plus you may want to save a domain to pay for card effects/Events). In addition, the resource allocation, while a clever mechanic, really seems to slow us down. I've read some articles about resource placement but I'm still finding the entire process much more restrictive than Warhammer's.

The same thing goes for card draws. Only two cards per turn, one of which one is placed as a resource in the early part of the game, seems meagre. Now I know that in many other CCGs one card draws are the norm, but I'm perhaps spoiled by Warhammer? There is great flexibility in that game in both resource and card draws based on how you play your units/support cards.

Finally, in a similar observation to the thread below this one, my opponent and I have many stories that run unopposed or with minimal fighting. I'm not seeing a lot of tense or close battles. Usually its a wash one way or the other.

CoC seems fun and I love the theme but I wonder, since the designer of all 3 LCGs is the same, if perhaps Warhammer: Invasion is an improved version of the prior two games. I see similarities in all 3 in that there is a trio of combat fields (3 challenges, stories, or zones respectively). Is it possible that each new LCG has learned from the "mistakes" of it's predecessor, hence steady improvement from AGOT to CoC to W:I? I know if I was building a series of, say, cars, I would improve each model over the previous.

Not trying to agitate anyone, and my experience is very limited with these games, but I really wanted to like CoC but it's not quite hitting the mark with me.

Hurdoc said:

I pretty much like CoC the way it is. Not being 'fast paced' is actually a bonus for me. The only thing that would make it even better would be a decent way to play it cooperatively.

I have not played AGOT nor WHI.... but IMHO

Hurdoc said:

Slow is a subjective perception of the time game... I love "very slow" games... so CoC is hurry. A normal game may take 10-15 min (three copies of the most important cards to run the deck); obviously with one Core Set there is a little pool of cards and game goes slow... in the CCG version you can easily win the game in two or three turns... with a T1 deck maybe in one turn!

Like all the cards games there are rush decks (like Sindicate) and cards that slow the game to stop rush decks (in MTG we talk about Red rush decks against Blue control decks, which could be itself a rush deck!). With the limited pool now available we have to wait, but in CCG there was decks without characters that could win a game easily!

You can play three card if you have they in your hand, and it depends on which cards you have (there some cards 0 cost but there is a lot of cost triggered abilities on table too!)

Hurdoc said:

It depends on the faction you play.... University has a great card pool to draw cards; Shub-Niggurath has a great draw/discard pile recoursing... and remember that it is not necessary to put resources always

Hurdoc said:

Again depends on the opposed factions... but there is a lot of new Characters Surprises playable from your hand as Actions not constrained to play in your Operations Phase: Terror of the Tides, Descendant of Eibon, the less useful The Thing Behind You, in some way Julia Brown/The Sleepwalker... And a lot of hand play: wounding, retiring from stories, making go insane everyone....

Hurdoc said:

Sure every new game have new appeal and this is enjoyable!

Opinions are welcome and necessary to evolve games and to create new games.

There is a lot of things that are new in CoC, but a lot are new in WHI too

Cheers!!

If I may share:

I've found that once I got the sense of how to 'play my cards right' I find that the game moves very quickly, and it is necessary to play an aggressive game to gain the tempo, and that every play counts. Resourcing decisions, faction matching, cost reduction cards, the all-important investigation icon all need your close attention.

Deck construction strategies has done a lot to sharpen my CoC play experience; I love my Syndicate deck filled with hit me, expendable muscle, dutch courage, etc. that put the opponent off balance, or the Terror inspiring power of Hastur that drives the opponents character crazy without the need to win a single terror struggle.

I think you will find that the games can be tense and down to the wire.

I'm the original poster and I did as the poster above me suggested. The game was much more fun tonight after we designed our own decks. Although we had little insight into how to do so correctly, we still put together some nice decks in factions that we each liked. The game was much closer and we were able to play some combos that were quite fun.

I still find that only 3 domains was frustrating, but I played Eat the Dead, which helped me quite a bit.

Takes a lot of resources to make four domains viable. And a lot of cards in hand. It would have to be a rush weenie and card draw deck.

The two games have a very different feel. I often think that CoC is too fast, (especially when I hear from the CCg players of turn 2 and three wins), where is the fun in that. In Invasion, you aren't going to have the clout to do enough damage fast enough to win in two or three turns. A bad starting draw in CoC that doesn't give you any playable characters can pretty much concede a story to an opponent. Now I don't have 3 set of everything, (1 of everything), so I can see my decks aren't the most they could be, but too often I find the game is over before I can actually start to implement the theme I was shooting for with a given deck, (unless I'm playing a Misk/Synd rushdeck I have).

The best thing I've found for the fourth domain is not to try to get characters down, but just for all those "spend 1 resource" actions that are out there.

While I find the resolutions of the story cards potentially far more interesting, I rarely find that they work out that way. While with W:I I find that the actual cardplay seems to be a bit more involved in terms of decisions. Too often in CoC, I really don't have too many options as to what I have to do. I either send these two guys to the story, or I lose.

I for one prefer the slower pace of CoC over other CCGs. It means that both players (assuming playable card draws) have the opportunity to play and enjoy the game.