There's one simple use for intel that I haven't seen discussed much, but I found both extremely interesting (And frustrating) the first time my opponent used Jan Ors against me.

Heavy squadrons do not prevent other squadrons from moving. They ALSO don't prevent squadrons from firing on ships, so once your bombers DO reach their target, you can proceed to bomb away regardless of engagement, rendering the ol "engage them with a TIE to delay bombing" strategy totally bunk.

I've started including a generic Jumpmaster 5000 in all my bomber lists.

Because nobody is paying that much attention to squadrons in general. Intel was always going to be the big game changer in squadron on squadron fights. The only reason I expected to see Firespray spam first was because 1) nobody was currently using squadrons so they would have free reign and 2) rogue+bomber is ridiculously easy to use. Once fighters started popping back up, I fully expect Intel to be the defining part of this wave.

Like I stated earlier and has been said by others, Intel will make Rhymerball's and the heavy strikes of Rebel bombers.

I honestly worry about Dengar and TIE Bombers. . .

I wish they would have given Jan a scatter token.

There's one simple use for intel that I haven't seen discussed much, but I found both extremely interesting (And frustrating) the first time my opponent used Jan Ors against me.

Heavy squadrons do not prevent other squadrons from moving. They ALSO don't prevent squadrons from firing on ships, so once your bombers DO reach their target, you can proceed to bomb away regardless of engagement, rendering the ol "engage them with a TIE to delay bombing" strategy totally bunk.

I've started including a generic Jumpmaster 5000 in all my bomber lists.

Because nobody is paying that much attention to squadrons in general. Intel was always going to be the big game changer in squadron on squadron fights. The only reason I expected to see Firespray spam first was because 1) nobody was currently using squadrons so they would have free reign and 2) rogue+bomber is ridiculously easy to use. Once fighters started popping back up, I fully expect Intel to be the defining part of this wave.

Like I stated earlier and has been said by others, Intel will make Rhymerball's and the heavy strikes of Rebel bombers.

I honestly worry about Dengar and TIE Bombers. . .

I wish they would have given Jan a scatter token.

As nice and amazing that would be she would break many things I think. . .

That would have been broken as hell. You would never get anywhere near Jan or any bombers because their X-Wing escort(s) would be damned near impossible to kill. You can't even accuracy any of the defense tokens because you're not actually targeting Jan.

There's one simple use for intel that I haven't seen discussed much, but I found both extremely interesting (And frustrating) the first time my opponent used Jan Ors against me.

Heavy squadrons do not prevent other squadrons from moving. They ALSO don't prevent squadrons from firing on ships, so once your bombers DO reach their target, you can proceed to bomb away regardless of engagement, rendering the ol "engage them with a TIE to delay bombing" strategy totally bunk.

I've started including a generic Jumpmaster 5000 in all my bomber lists.

Because nobody is paying that much attention to squadrons in general. Intel was always going to be the big game changer in squadron on squadron fights. The only reason I expected to see Firespray spam first was because 1) nobody was currently using squadrons so they would have free reign and 2) rogue+bomber is ridiculously easy to use. Once fighters started popping back up, I fully expect Intel to be the defining part of this wave.

Like I stated earlier and has been said by others, Intel will make Rhymerball's and the heavy strikes of Rebel bombers.

I honestly worry about Dengar and TIE Bombers. . .

I wish they would have given Jan a scatter token.

You want her to be 2 to 4 more points?

As nice and amazing that would be she would break many things I think. . .

I just think it would be fun. Plus it would be a way to make some of these expensive rebel pilots that only have brace a bit more survivable. It might well be broken.

There's one simple use for intel that I haven't seen discussed much, but I found both extremely interesting (And frustrating) the first time my opponent used Jan Ors against me.

Heavy squadrons do not prevent other squadrons from moving. They ALSO don't prevent squadrons from firing on ships, so once your bombers DO reach their target, you can proceed to bomb away regardless of engagement, rendering the ol "engage them with a TIE to delay bombing" strategy totally bunk.

I've started including a generic Jumpmaster 5000 in all my bomber lists.

Because nobody is paying that much attention to squadrons in general. Intel was always going to be the big game changer in squadron on squadron fights. The only reason I expected to see Firespray spam first was because 1) nobody was currently using squadrons so they would have free reign and 2) rogue+bomber is ridiculously easy to use. Once fighters started popping back up, I fully expect Intel to be the defining part of this wave.

Like I stated earlier and has been said by others, Intel will make Rhymerball's and the heavy strikes of Rebel bombers.

I honestly worry about Dengar and TIE Bombers. . .

I wish they would have given Jan a scatter token.

You want her to be 2 to 4 more points?

As nice and amazing that would be she would break many things I think. . .

I just think it would be fun. Plus it would be a way to make some of these expensive rebel pilots that only have brace a bit more survivable. It might well be broken.

I think Intel will have the largest impact. The ships that have it are pretty underwhelming,mbu the on the table, the impact of their ability will be massive. Right now, I can shut down a Rymer ball easily,mbu feeding it an a-wing a turn. One Jumpmaster ensures that there is no easy way to just lock bombers down.

Once we start seeing more squadrons on the table, absolutely. However, for Intel to have an effect, there needs to be something for Bombers to escape from in the first place. I expect the following sequence of events:

1) someone brings firespray spam

2) anti-squadron rogues, such as the YT-2400 start popping up to mitigate the firesprays

3) Intel makes its way into the mix to keep those firesprays free to move.

4) People realize that you can do more for less points by taking wave 1 fighters and giving them a squadron command to take out the Intel/Firespray combo. Think 4 Interceptors with Howlrunner, Mauled, and flight controllers.

5) Wave 1 bombers, also able to do more with less, start coming back by trying to get squadron commands in before the fighter screens.

6)???

7) Profit

By the way, 7 firesprays, at 126 points, is the most we can see at 400 points.

Well, this is pretty much how the theorycrafting on the forums has gone so far, so I think you're spot-on. "Cool, we get Rogues with bombers!" "Hmmm, better get some anti-squadron rogues to tie up those rogue bombers." "Yipes... all those rogues sure are expensive. If I just throw in a couple squadron commands..." "So if I run an intel ship with Corruptor and boosted comms, that's 5 speed twice for my generic bombers..."

Unfortunately, I fear the mysterious "stage six" is the min/max efficiency question: "Well, now I have a bunch of generic bombers, because that gets me the most dice/range/damage/flexibility/etc. Am I sure they're doing more damage than the same number of points in ships? Do I want 134 points in squadrons, or another ISD, two Glads/Whales/shrimps, three Raiders, four Corvettes, etc? And do I really need lots of squadrons if I run into a bomber swarm, or can I avoid them/outrun them/table the carriers/etc?"

In Wave I, many players came to the conclusion that they could make do without significant squadrons, based on their breakdown of the "point cost vs. opportunity cost vs. expected damage vs. degree of difficulty vs. risk of being tabled vs. objective disadvantage vs. local metas vs. tournament MOV vs. `[whatever else]" calculus. It remains to be seen whether what we got in Wave I will change that. I'm hopeful it will, but we'll see.

This is why I did the thread about how to mathematically calculate a "balanced" squadron mix. Essentially, how many bombers per fighter in order to have a reasonable response to heavy bomber lists AND still have enough anti-ship punch to not auto-lose to all ship lists.

For those who missed the thread, the Imperial take home was that 2 TIE fighters for every TIE bomber gets you essentially half-way between fighters and bombers anti-ship damage per point spent and compares reasonably to ships damage output.

So playing Imperial, 2 TIEs plus 1 bomber for 25 points will by my rule of thumb (and then modified to suit the list needs (like ships squadron values and so forth). If I'm finding myself in a heavy ship meta, going to a 1:1 ratio is still reasonable.

There's one simple use for intel that I haven't seen discussed much, but I found both extremely interesting (And frustrating) the first time my opponent used Jan Ors against me.

Heavy squadrons do not prevent other squadrons from moving. They ALSO don't prevent squadrons from firing on ships, so once your bombers DO reach their target, you can proceed to bomb away regardless of engagement, rendering the ol "engage them with a TIE to delay bombing" strategy totally bunk.

I've started including a generic Jumpmaster 5000 in all my bomber lists.

Because nobody is paying that much attention to squadrons in general. Intel was always going to be the big game changer in squadron on squadron fights. The only reason I expected to see Firespray spam first was because 1) nobody was currently using squadrons so they would have free reign and 2) rogue+bomber is ridiculously easy to use. Once fighters started popping back up, I fully expect Intel to be the defining part of this wave.

Like I stated earlier and has been said by others, Intel will make Rhymerball's and the heavy strikes of Rebel bombers.

I honestly worry about Dengar and TIE Bombers. . .

I wish they would have given Jan a scatter token.

You want her to be 2 to 4 more points?

As nice and amazing that would be she would break many things I think. . .

I just think it would be fun. Plus it would be a way to make some of these expensive rebel pilots that only have brace a bit more survivable. It might well be broken.

Tycho would have 2 scatters to use and only 1 of them can be blocked by an accuracy

Stop Lyr, my heart can only take so much excitement.

with intel letting your bomber shoot ships when engaged, does escort trump that, and if so escort squadrons will be more important

Negative.

Escort states that you must attack it before attacking other *squadrons*. It's engagement that prevents you from targeting a ship, and Intel negates that.

Problem with Ties re efficiency is the buggers pop when you look angryily at them (their poor little life supportless hearts just can't take it )

Anti-squadron batteries especially interact with them in much the same way as a bugzapper

Which is part if why Armada is such an amazing game. Efficiency doesn't mean Dingus if the positioning is off (far superior to xwing's "oh just add a green dir or something")

Squadrons depend a LOT on the list they're accompanying. Taking a bunch if Bwings with shrimps , for example, is incredibly redundant . even the sillies might not back it since you got little room for anti squadron

On the imp side, I'm actually more excited about bombers with ISDs and Rogues with VSDs just because bring Rogue frees up the slow pizzas for navigate commands

Also ISDs get HUGE activations and will one round anything GSD/Neb or smaller with uncontested rhymer bombers (at 8 dice range)

My opinion about fighters, especially Imperial ones, is that they are anti squadron fodder at best. Maybe R&V changes that, but you're better off using ships to beat up on ships. I prefer the points on bombers would be better spent on upgrades/another ship.

If they help kill ships, that's just a bonus.

Which is why I like TIE fighters better than interceptors. So long as I'm not stupid enough to put my entire cluster between 2 Neb escorts, TIE fighters are sufficient for their cost. If they had 4 hp they'd be too crazy good. They don't need to last long anyway. Their goal is to put the hurt on enemy squadrons long enough for the bomber wing to help finish off a ship or two. I'd happily trade away a few TIE squadrons in exchange for most any ship.

I don't think B-wings and shrimp are overly redundant and can easily be in the same list. Stacking firepower is the name of the game and the two should work great teaming up on big ships. The shrimp then have the speed to run down anything that escapes the Bs. The shrimp don't make great carriers themselves of course, but the rebels have plenty of options there.

I can't wait to fly independence with expanded hangar bays.

Independence, expanded hangar bays (+ other upgrades)

Keyan Farlander

2x B-wing

2x Y-wing

Now that is bomber support.

All very interesting. Now who wants to come with me to help push that **** cargo ship faster?

Well, this is pretty much how the theorycrafting on the forums has gone so far, so I think you're spot-on. "Cool, we get Rogues with bombers!" "Hmmm, better get some anti-squadron rogues to tie up those rogue bombers." "Yipes... all those rogues sure are expensive. If I just throw in a couple squadron commands..." "So if I run an intel ship with Corruptor and boosted comms, that's 5 speed twice for my generic bombers..."

Unfortunately, I fear the mysterious "stage six" is the min/max efficiency question: "Well, now I have a bunch of generic bombers, because that gets me the most dice/range/damage/flexibility/etc. Am I sure they're doing more damage than the same number of points in ships? Do I want 134 points in squadrons, or another ISD, two Glads/Whales/shrimps, three Raiders, four Corvettes, etc? And do I really need lots of squadrons if I run into a bomber swarm, or can I avoid them/outrun them/table the carriers/etc?"

In Wave I, many players came to the conclusion that they could make do without significant squadrons, based on their breakdown of the "point cost vs. opportunity cost vs. expected damage vs. degree of difficulty vs. risk of being tabled vs. objective disadvantage vs. local metas vs. tournament MOV vs. `[whatever else]" calculus. It remains to be seen whether what we got in Wave I will change that. I'm hopeful it will, but we'll see.

There are also more tools to help keep squadrons in the fight this wave. Boosted Comms and Independence B-Wings are going to change things almost as radically as Intel. Going without squadrons will be a huge risk this wave.

The cheap intel ships will introduce a lot of flexibility. Because they work on themselves, and provide a bubble, you can use even a single corvette or a squadron token to activate them into a critical position, after which everything the intel ship now engages becomes heavy, so any of your squadrons engaged with them are now free to move or bomb ships.

This means you can activate your intel ship at all kinds of points in the activation sequence to ensure you get a bombing run or are able to reposition in the squadron phase for next turn.

Bottom line I think is that "TIEing up" enemy squadrons wont be very reliable. To negate their bombing you will have to either kill them outright or run away from them very fast.

Nym is brutal when he does go off.

Nym, not Lando, is the gambler's card. Pay a premium price for a fairly low chance that something amazing will happen early in the game. If it does go off, it's more than earned its points. If it doesn't, well. At least you had the fun of biting your nails while throwing those dice, right?

Nym is brutal when he does go off.

Nym, not Lando, is the gambler's card. Pay a premium price for a fairly low chance that something amazing will happen early in the game. If it does go off, it's more than earned its points. If it doesn't, well. At least you had the fun of biting your nails while throwing those dice, right?

I can't wait to fly independence with expanded hangar bays.

Independence, expanded hangar bays (+ other upgrades)

Keyan Farlander

2x B-wing

2x Y-wing

Now that is bomber support.

I agree. People salivate over B-Wings, and I've no doubt they're good IF they hit. But Tossing in a few Y-Wings suddenly makes Imperial commanders sweat. We can't just run away from the Rebel bogeymen fighters and expect to survive, suddenly there's a real expectation of regular bomber damage

If Rebels ever get a Rhymer equivalent, you'll see massive TIE swarms almost immediately as a response.

I can't wait to fly independence with expanded hangar bays.

Independence, expanded hangar bays (+ other upgrades)

Keyan Farlander

2x B-wing

2x Y-wing

Now that is bomber support.

I agree. People salivate over B-Wings, and I've no doubt they're good IF they hit. But Tossing in a few Y-Wings suddenly makes Imperial commanders sweat. We can't just run away from the Rebel bogeymen fighters and expect to survive, suddenly there's a real expectation of regular bomber damage

If Rebels ever get a Rhymer equivalent, you'll see massive TIE swarms almost immediately as a response.

I'm much more worried about B Wings myself. Imperials have pretty easy targets, so B Wings aren't much of a gamble against them, and they hit much, much harder.

I wouldn't count on Rebels getting Rhymer. Not only would that be very lazy on FFG's part, but it would also fly in the face of each faction having distinct fighter ecosystems.

How to negate 6x Firespray

Buy 6x Awings

For the cost of two squadron commands and 66 points, you get to eliminate 104 points.

You'll have a few losses, but the awing alpha strike should down 1 Firespray and put the next halfway (with average rolls). It's close enough there may be a few battles that go the Firesprays direction, but the alpha strike really skews things.

Even if the Firespray player scatters the squadrons, each individual A-wing is roughly 50:50 with the Firespray. Having invested far less into the fight and knowing it will take at least two turns, if not three for the Firesprays to free themselves they should arrive to a much different fight than the imperial hoped, heavily damaged and closer to the point where ship AS fire can take them out.

Just a quick thought on the good use of B-wings. I'm still toying with a few aspects, but here goes:

REBEL FLEET (399 points)

Another take on the same concept:

REBEL FLEET (400 points)

Keep in mind the Q7s only work on ships the same size or smaller... So the AF's wouldn't be able to slow an ISD.

Keep in mind the Q7s only work on ships the same size or smaller... So the AF's wouldn't be able to slow an ISD.

Of course not. But its the only speed 3 ship that's immune. And its huge. Much more likely for squadrons to get swept up and do a little bow riding. The only real worry would be a 2x or 3x ISD list. Any other list and you still have tractor beam targets. Then the ISD player has to choose whether the ISD goes it alone out ahead of the rest, or waits for the rest to catch up.