Situation:

An enemy Poe has one health left. A Sigma Squadron Phantom at range 2 fires at it and rolls 3 blanks and a focus. >I don't have a focus token<.

He rolls defense dice and blanks. Either assuming that I had a focus, or mistakenly believing that my roll had a hit in it (I rolled into a dice tray and maybe he just glanced into it and didn't bother to double check), he gets rather angry at his dice and removes his Poe from the board. He is not aware that he did this until I told him after the game, and he said he could have sworn there was a hit in the roll.

I say nothing because I need to win at all costs. Did I cheat by allowing my opponent to do something that's not allowed? He did kind of intentionally ruin the game state on his own, the punishment for that should be not allowing the placement of the ship back on the board.

I say nothing because I need to win at all costs. Did I cheat by allowing my opponent to do something that's not allowed? He did kind of intentionally ruin the game state on his own, the punishment for that should be not allowing the placement of the ship back on the board.

Why? Why did you need to win at all costs? Was some 'heavy' standing over you threatening to beat you up if you lost? No one needs to win at all costs.

Regardless of the fact that he removed his ship, you still should have informed him that you missed and that his X-wing wasn't destroyed.

You didn't destroy the X-wing, and you failed to correct the error. And you can't say he intentionally ruined the game state, because he was under the impression his ship was destroyed. I would say you ruined the game state, because you allowed him to remove it, knowing it wasn't destroyed and let the game continue knowing it was wrong. And since when does a player get to decide a punishment in that situation?

Could he see this dice tray of yours clearly? What's wrong with rolling on the table like the other 99.99% of X-wing players out there?

Waiting until after the game to inform him... well, how good do you feel about that? I know others may chime in with "it was a missed opportunity" or some such rubbish, but that still doesn't make it the right thing to do. Did you cheat? I don't know. Does playing the game knowing errors have been made, but failing to say anything about it constitute cheating? I think so. This whole scenario just smells bad from start to finish.

Yep you should feel bad. He should have looked better that's true but he thought you had a hit. I understand wacc but come on.

Ask your self this:

Since you didn't kill his Poe, your opponent simply removed an in-play ship from the board. Is there are rule allowing you to do that?

Would this be a different situation if you claimed you rolled Crit Crit Crit and he didn't look at your dice to confirm?

I'd say the answer is "No" to both questions and it's pretty clear you cheated by not saying anything. Your opponent should be paying better attention, but mistakes happen.

You can help prevent problems like this for happening again by calling out your results. Helps keep everyone honest.

I doubt you're really a win-at-all-costs player. If you were, you wouldn't be here asking for opinions. You'd just quietly file this one away in your successful wins folder.

Instead, I think you're a DEICTWWTR (a do-everything-I-can-to-win-within-the-rules player).The distinction is important. A WAAC player will do ANYTHING, including cheating, to win the game. He'll play unsportsmanlike mind games to try to get under his opponent's skin. He'll try to distract the opponent so he can change the game state unnoticed. He'll beg and plead for take-backs and re-dos, but will ruthlessly deny them to all of his opponents.

If you deny someone a missed opportunity, that's not WAAC. What you did above, though. Yeah, that's kinda WAAC. But you're asking opinions, so presumably you won't do this again.

[DISCLAIMER: I don't really know you and don't actually presume to know you, but I am trying to make inferences from your posting habits and the circumstances of this thread. I hope you will not be offended by my disagreeing with your self-proclaimed title of being WAAC. Rather, I hope that if you disagree, we can discuss this as civilized gentle-beings instead of resulting to any name-calling.]

At this point, I think you are just using the rules forum to act as your conscience. At this point, if you are questioning why people seem to quickly get upset at you even for reasonable things, it is because you have terrible social skills.

At this point, I think you are just using the rules forum to act as your conscience. At this point, if you are questioning why people seem to quickly get upset at you even for reasonable things, it is because you have terrible social skills.

Well, hopefully his conscience will tell him he did cheat, and that he should feel bad.

@OP, you acted dishonestly to win a game of toy spaceships. How does that make you feel?

I was going to post a response but then I would be a PAAC (post at all costs) player.

Seriously though, did the OP describe something that actually happened in a game or was he asking a hypothetical question? I can't be certain one way or the other.

It actually happened.

I roll into a tray because dice don't end up getting cocked or hitting game elements. After I rolled I left the dice in the tray for a while, so he had ample time to double check.

I didn't falsely claim anything about my results, I announced an attack with my last Phantom and rolled it and died inside when I blanked, not feeling the need to announce my results. Then my opponent rolled defense and blanked and got angry and pulled his ship off the board.

We ended up having a great end game dogfight with PS 2 TLT K-Wing against a Sigma Phantom and he ended up god rolling with a crucial double evade roll to pull out the win. It ended up being a good game, SLAM ships in the end game are beasts.

It actually happened.

I roll into a tray because dice don't end up getting cocked or hitting game elements. After I rolled I left the dice in the tray for a while, so he had ample time to double check.

I didn't falsely claim anything about my results, I announced an attack with my last Phantom and rolled it and died inside when I blanked, not feeling the need to announce my results. Then my opponent rolled defense and blanked and got angry and pulled his ship off the board.

So why didn't you stop him at that point and say "Mate, I rolled snake eyes. What the hell are you doing?"

At first I was stunned, then I decided I could get a free ship out of it so I kept my mouth shut. Imagine someone elevating both fists and shaking them while chanting, "Win at all costs! Win at all costs!". XD

This is why I created this thread, because it felt iffy. It's a bit like the Rebel Captive thing.

Did I cheat by allowing my opponent to do something that's not allowed?

Yes.

At first I was stunned, then I decided I could get a free ship out of it so I kept my mouth shut. Imagine someone elevating both fists and shaking them while chanting, "Win at all costs! Win at all costs!". XD

This is why I created this thread, because it felt iffy. It's a bit like the Rebel Captive thing.

"You felt IFFY?!?"

There was no "IF" about it. It was EXACTLY like the Rebel Captive thing. You allowed a mistake to happen, and did nothing to correct it, to the detriment of your opponent. You shouldn't feel "iffy". You should feel disgusted with yourself. And now you try and make out you both had a really enjoyable game, like that made up for it. What a crock!

Yeah this isn't him missing a focus action or something. It's removing a ship when it should still be on the board. Mental that you didn't pipe up.

Check the rules forum, saw the thread title, immediately knew who the OP had to be.

At this point I don't even understand how the OP has anyone to play with. This is like his 10th thread asking for input on a situation that boils down to him being a **** or both a **** and a cheat.

Stop cheating and learn how to actually beat someone at the game.

I do post questions that aren't of a moral, WAAC/Fly Casual nature in this subforum sometimes.

I believe this is the only thing I have done that could reasonably be called cheating. This is why I've posted this thread, to see if it's cheating or not and if I should make it up to the person or not and apologize. I'm trying to find out if I did wrong so that way I can amend my (potential) wrong doing.

Does anyone have an email address from someone on the design team to get a definitive answer? I asked a well regarded top player in my area and he doesn't think it's cheating. I'm not sure either way.

Bottom line: I wouldnt want to play with you. I view the game in such a way that we need to help eachother out. The game is very complex.

Yes you are cheating.

This is not a missed opportunity.

Nor is it a mistake as you knew what was going on.

Its a broken rule on the Compare Results step.

And if you did it knowingly you were cheating.

If this happened on a Tournament you'd be up for elimination.

The Power of the Dark Side is strong in you.

If you are asking this question, you already know the answer is yes.

No win in a game is worth dishonesty.

Yeah I even feel bad enough when an opponent rolls a dice less than they should. So a whole ship...mental.

Situation:

An enemy Poe has one health left. A Sigma Squadron Phantom at range 2 fires at it and rolls 3 blanks and a focus. >I don't have a focus token<.

He rolls defense dice and blanks. Either assuming that I had a focus, or mistakenly believing that my roll had a hit in it (I rolled into a dice tray and maybe he just glanced into it and didn't bother to double check), he gets rather angry at his dice and removes his Poe from the board. He is not aware that he did this until I told him after the game, and he said he could have sworn there was a hit in the roll.

I say nothing because I need to win at all costs. Did I cheat by allowing my opponent to do something that's not allowed? He did kind of intentionally ruin the game state on his own, the punishment for that should be not allowing the placement of the ship back on the board.

My take: You cheated.

There were NO options where he would have lost the ship. While I have no idea why he thought he needed to remove the ship you should have be VERY clear that your attack had missed and that there is nothing removing his ship from the game.

Situation:

An enemy Poe has one health left. A Sigma Squadron Phantom at range 2 fires at it and rolls 3 blanks and a focus. >I don't have a focus token<.

He rolls defense dice and blanks. Either assuming that I had a focus, or mistakenly believing that my roll had a hit in it (I rolled into a dice tray and maybe he just glanced into it and didn't bother to double check), he gets rather angry at his dice and removes his Poe from the board. He is not aware that he did this until I told him after the game, and he said he could have sworn there was a hit in the roll.

I say nothing because I need to win at all costs. Did I cheat by allowing my opponent to do something that's not allowed? He did kind of intentionally ruin the game state on his own, the punishment for that should be not allowing the placement of the ship back on the board.

My take: You cheated.

There were NO options where he would have lost the ship. While I have no idea why he thought he needed to remove the ship you should have be VERY clear that your attack had missed and that there is nothing removing his ship from the game.

Agreed, the onus for this falls on you. As your opponent, I would hesitate to play you again once I realized that you had let me pull my ship.

I play on Vassal since I have no local LGS so there are some vassal customs that don't have a counterpart IRL. Now technically rolling defense die is not optional but it seems common sense not to roll defense die if no hits are rolled or gotten via focus or gotten by an ability. Is it the practice IRL not to roll defense die if someone whiffs the attack roll? It seems like if someone is rolling defense die they think there are hits that can be cancelled. Once your opponent starts going for his green die it seems like you have time to realize he misread your roll.

For that matter, rolling your dice in a tray makes it more difficult for your opponent to read.

And it's common practice to announce your roll vocally, and then to announce any modifications.

Fly. Casual.

At first I was stunned, then I decided I could get a free ship out of it so I kept my mouth shut. Imagine someone elevating both fists and shaking them while chanting, "Win at all costs! Win at all costs!". XD

This is why I created this thread, because it felt iffy. It's a bit like the Rebel Captive thing.

So to sum up: You cheated. You know you cheated. You're now feeling guilty, so you've come to the Internet in an attempt to seek absolution of your sins and seek reassurance on your actions from total strangers.

Well, bad luck son. This might be the Internet, and we might be total strangers, but we're still people. And we know straight up cheating when we see it. You'll find no absolution here.

If it had been me you'd admitted that to after the game, and it was a tournament, I would have reported it to the TO and asked that you be expelled. Not for me, but rather to spare anyone else you might play that day the same treatment.