Now in a casual setting? Do what ever floats your boat. I regularly help people when they make mistakes with dials or when they make actions that do little for them at that time. But this wasn't the case here, this was a National level event.

And by all means, what you want and pray for in every game is that it be decided by a lapse in the first turn of the game that has absolutely nothing to do with the actual skill of playing X-Wing.

I know that's what I go on Twitch to see!

So, a lapse in judgement is not skill? Hell, drunk drivers unite! This is the day to behold!

Jeff, you of all people who always demands rules to be done correctly on the facebook page should be the one that would want to uphold the rulings. Because otherwise, why even have them?

Edit: Especially when you are the one that usually insults people for not knowing the rules.

Edit: Especially when you are the one that usually insults people for not knowing the rules.

The last sentence is a lie. You edited your post for the sole purpose -- literally the sole purpose -- of adding a lie. That's ... fascinating.

I remember at my regionals the table next to me a guy deployed his YT-2400 backwards, first turn 2 forward: straight off the board edge.

THAT got loud.

If you're at Regionals, then the assumption is you're experienced with the game and are there to play for sheep stations. If you can't tell that your YT-2400 is pointing backwards by this stage, you deserve the consequences to fly it straight off the board.

Edit: Especially when you are the one that usually insults people for not knowing the rules.

The last sentence is a lie. You edited your post for the sole purpose -- literally the sole purpose -- of adding a lie. That's ... fascinating.

I can actually go into facebook and screenshot multiple insults to people not understanding the rules, a post where you were asked to be more diplomatic, and where you have insulted other newer players for not understanding a rule. I choose not to. I didn't want to get on that subject, just pointing out you have mixed responses to rules.

I can actually go into facebook and screenshot multiple insults to people not understanding the rules, a post where you were asked to be more diplomatic, and where you have insulted other newer players for not understanding a rule. I choose not to. I didn't want to get on that subject, just pointing out you have mixed responses to rules.

And you continue to lie. While hiding in anonymity. More and more fascinating.

I have never insulted anyone for not knowing the rules. (I happily insult people for many reasons, all deserved. For example, I've insulted many cowardly liars, and certainly will continue to do so.) "Not knowing the rules" does not deserve an insult. Pretty much just the opposite, in fact ... I go out of my way to help folks who don't know the rules, as best I can.

I'd say, judging from our respective responses here, which of us is more forgiving of lapses -- rules or otherwise -- is pretty easy to judge.

Take it somewhere else guys....

Take it somewhere else guys....

You are right, i'll take this to PMs, don't need to derail.

the game is meant to be a competition of list building and "flying" - when you punish someone in such a way for making an honest mistake - this is not a lapse of judgement, it's a screw up. Nobody is saying people should be allowed to change their dials after they reveal them (aside from certain cards) - in this scenario, if your opponent clearly demonstrates a mistake rather than trying to gain some advantage by playing fast and loose or switching the dial afterward, and you insist that he remove his ship from the game, you're completely missing the point.

Where im from, we don't take kindly to mizerly jerks who read the letter of the rule and not the spirit. Nobody is gaining anything from it - there's no need to insist this is a "learning opportunity" - you're just snatching up low hanging fruit and trying to win at all costs. It's gross behavior, and it makes you a sh*tty human being.

In one of our first tournaments here I made the mistake of mixing up my left and right. Flew one of my defenders in a Jonus Brothers list of the table on turn two.

It was on the final table, and I went on to win the game

Just to point out that flying a ship off doesn't automatically mean that you have lost the match.

Seems to me if FFG didn't mean for flying off the table to be a bad thing, they wouldn't have created a rule making it a bad thing. And it is a rule. With no stipulations for whether you think your opponent meant to or when in the game it happens.

Now if you want to let it slide for those reasons, that's your call. But let's not put people who do on this pedestal of character and sportsmanship and implicitly cast those who wouldn't do this as soulless win at all costs killjoys.

Me? I wouldn't let them off the hook. Because then I'm opening every mistake my opponent might make after that to the possibility of a do over, with the argument that I let that one slide, why not this one too? I clearly didn't mean to go left and bump you, I meant to go right....

And again, a casual game, sure, let it ride. But if we've paid to be in an event like a regional or Nationals, the expectation is you know what you're doing, and know the consequences if you don't.

Seems to me if FFG didn't mean for flying off the table to be a bad thing, they wouldn't have created a rule making it a bad thing. And it is a rule. With no stipulations for whether you think your opponent meant to or when in the game it happens.

Now if you want to let it slide for those reasons, that's your call. But let's not put people who do on this pedestal of character and sportsmanship and implicitly cast those who wouldn't do this as soulless win at all costs killjoys.

Me? I wouldn't let them off the hook. Because then I'm opening every mistake my opponent might make after that to the possibility of a do over, with the argument that I let that one slide, why not this one too? I clearly didn't mean to go left and bump you, I meant to go right....

And again, a casual game, sure, let it ride. But if we've paid to be in an event like a regional or Nationals, the expectation is you know what you're doing, and know the consequences if you don't.

It's a world of difference between changing your dial because of a bump, and making a mistake and flying off the board - and you know it. Further evidence of your low character, in addition to sucking the life out of the game in order to win at all costs, you'll go further and lie about your intentions.

Seems to me if FFG didn't mean for flying off the table to be a bad thing, they wouldn't have created a rule making it a bad thing. And it is a rule. With no stipulations for whether you think your opponent meant to or when in the game it happens.

Now if you want to let it slide for those reasons, that's your call. But let's not put people who do on this pedestal of character and sportsmanship and implicitly cast those who wouldn't do this as soulless win at all costs killjoys.

Me? I wouldn't let them off the hook. Because then I'm opening every mistake my opponent might make after that to the possibility of a do over, with the argument that I let that one slide, why not this one too? I clearly didn't mean to go left and bump you, I meant to go right....

And again, a casual game, sure, let it ride. But if we've paid to be in an event like a regional or Nationals, the expectation is you know what you're doing, and know the consequences if you don't.

It's a world of difference between changing your dial because of a bump, and making a mistake and flying off the board - and you know it. Further evidence of your low character, in addition to sucking the life out of the game in order to win at all costs, you'll go further and lie about your intentions.

This is bologna. So now if you don't let someone cheat then you have "Low Character".

It IS a difference between flying off the board turn 1 and bumping a ship later in game, and he specified that it's a slippery slope - if you let someone change a dial for one thing, then they might expect you to let them change a dial for other things. Everyone here seems to agree that cutting someone some slack in a casual game is pretty much commonplace - but in a SERIOUS TOURNAMENT - and in this case Nationals - one of the highest possible forms of competition in this game - holding to the rules does NOT, make you have "Low Character".

I would argue that slinging insults at people in your manner is certainly more in line with your character than behaving in line with the rules at a National Tournament.

It does make you low character. It's not at all a slippery slope and the more "important" the game, the more necessary it is to not be a child and steal a major advantage from a mere mistake.

You guys have no leg to stand on here, you're talking about a slippery slopes and learning lessons when it's not at all relevant.

If someone tries to change their dial after the fact, that is cheating on the same level of being greedy and infantile that you are currently arguing from by insisting in stealing advantages from honest mistakes. This is not a slippery slope,nor is it difficult to distinguish between the two. We all know it when we see it, the example given in this thread is a far site removed from someone changing their dial after the fact, and to deny that is just further sleaziness.

I'm sorry that your feelings are hurt. Try not being a slime ball. You'll feel better about yourself.

Now in a casual setting? Do what ever floats your boat. I regularly help people when they make mistakes with dials or when they make actions that do little for them at that time. But this wasn't the case here, this was a National level event.

And by all means, what you want and pray for in every game is that it be decided by a lapse in the first turn of the game that has absolutely nothing to do with the actual skill of playing X-Wing.

I know that's what I go on Twitch to see!

Considering that the X-Wing YouTube battle report thing really hit its stride during the height of wave 5/6 Turretwing, it would be significantly more exciting to see someone fly a ship off the map and try to recover than have to see Soontir Deci fight against a Fat Falcon squad for the 37th ******* time. Why even record the game then?

Orient the dial relative to the ship so that this doesn't happen.

Today I forgot to place a dial down for one of my ships. My opponent flew it onto an asteroid (not close enough to the edge to instakill it). Maybe now I'll be less hasty and take an extra second to check that my ships actually have dials set. That's not bad sportsmanship and I would have done the same to him. No one but myself to blame.

Seems to me if FFG didn't mean for flying off the table to be a bad thing, they wouldn't have created a rule making it a bad thing. And it is a rule. With no stipulations for whether you think your opponent meant to or when in the game it happens.

Now if you want to let it slide for those reasons, that's your call. But let's not put people who do on this pedestal of character and sportsmanship and implicitly cast those who wouldn't do this as soulless win at all costs killjoys.

Me? I wouldn't let them off the hook. Because then I'm opening every mistake my opponent might make after that to the possibility of a do over, with the argument that I let that one slide, why not this one too? I clearly didn't mean to go left and bump you, I meant to go right....

And again, a casual game, sure, let it ride. But if we've paid to be in an event like a regional or Nationals, the expectation is you know what you're doing, and know the consequences if you don't.

Funny because FF did just that with the cloaking rule and boost....

But that is not the point, what is described is a goof in round 2. I really hope people can see the distinction. If your afraid you are opening a can of worms for the rest of the game and are so worried about now having to let your opponent off every time there is a bump, sounds like a total overreaction to but it is your call.

I am glad to see a lot of sportsmanship in Xwing. Tons of example such as the game where a phantom cloaked out of the board before the rule change but the opponent forgave the error and didnt let it happen. The guy won anyway. Or the Bounty hunter list vs X wings and Biggs was removed from the board but allowed to be placed back since it shouldnt have been destroyed. Bounty hunter guy ended up losing. Mind you those were all big important tournaments. Heck, just in Nationals 2015 finals tokens were getting placed out of order after a shot.

Forget to focus?

Sure go ahead.

Move all your academies, then go back to put focus tokens on them all?

Sure go ahead.

Fly off the board on round one (or any round)? = LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL unlucky mate

the game is meant to be a competition of list building and "flying" - when you punish someone in such a way for making an honest mistake - this is not a lapse of judgement, it's a screw up. Nobody is saying people should be allowed to change their dials after they reveal them (aside from certain cards) - in this scenario, if your opponent clearly demonstrates a mistake rather than trying to gain some advantage by playing fast and loose or switching the dial afterward, and you insist that he remove his ship from the game, you're completely missing the point.

Where im from, we don't take kindly to mizerly jerks who read the letter of the rule and not the spirit. Nobody is gaining anything from it - there's no need to insist this is a "learning opportunity" - you're just snatching up low hanging fruit and trying to win at all costs. It's gross behavior, and it makes you a sh*tty human being.

Define "mistake". Where is the line? Is moving your ships out of the order you should've (same PS skill) a mistake that should be allowed to be fixed? Misjudging the maneuver in comparison to an obstacle or ship? The line is different for each person.

From what I understand, judging people is also against the original philosophy of "Fly Casual". But again, far too many have hijacked that term to support their own dogmatic beliefs.

the game is meant to be a competition of list building and "flying" - when you punish someone in such a way for making an honest mistake - this is not a lapse of judgement, it's a screw up. Nobody is saying people should be allowed to change their dials after they reveal them (aside from certain cards) - in this scenario, if your opponent clearly demonstrates a mistake rather than trying to gain some advantage by playing fast and loose or switching the dial afterward, and you insist that he remove his ship from the game, you're completely missing the point.

Where im from, we don't take kindly to mizerly jerks who read the letter of the rule and not the spirit. Nobody is gaining anything from it - there's no need to insist this is a "learning opportunity" - you're just snatching up low hanging fruit and trying to win at all costs. It's gross behavior, and it makes you a sh*tty human being.

Define "mistake". Where is the line? Is moving your ships out of the order you should've (same PS skill) a mistake that should be allowed to be fixed? Misjudging the maneuver in comparison to an obstacle or ship? The line is different for each person.

From what I understand, judging people is also against the original philosophy of "Fly Casual". But again, far too many have hijacked that term to support their own dogmatic beliefs.

It's original intention and the manifestation of its spirit has always been so clear and unambiguous. Truly shameful that someone would distort this paragon of human virtue.

The line could not get any clearer. Moving ships in the "wrong" order means the player can judge barrel roll distances and gain other positional information. In this case, it's obviously a no-go.

If you hit an asteroid or ship, or your three turn that you thought would skate you by the edge of the board doesn't quite, and you go off - those are all miscalculations, errors in your attempts to navigate the space and are not undoable.

If you reveal a dial the opposite direction to what was obviously the only way you intended to go, then the only mechanism at play here in someone demanding you remove your ship is pettiness and sh*tty humanism. If it doesn't impact the game, like the examples in this thread are CLEARLY referring to, then you should not even consider demanding your opponent take the ship off the board. The slippery slope or the "where is the line?" argument is as pathetic as winning a game because of an honest mistake, and not through the essence of the actual game being played

Yeah, militiristic casuals are just as bad as those that try to win at all costs.

The line is all wibbly wobbly. More a set of guidelines then "rules".

The line isn't wobbly at all. Read my post above.

This thread. So salty.

Edit: Nevermind, not really gonna get into the back and forth stuff.

The line isn't wobbly at all. Read my post above.

Where does calling someone a sh*tty human being fall on that line?

Should I have made my opponent fly his Soontir off the board? His dial setting was clearly a mistake and I always like to fly casual and all that, but if not on the top tables at nationals when should this type of mistake be penalized?

Tough call indeed. But from what I've read about the tournament on FB, it was a pretty good, fun tournament. It seems everyone had a really good time, and as far as I'm concerned, you did the right thing by yourself. You may have regretted the decision later, because the result would probably have been in your favour. But if you flew him off the board, would you be still asking yourself if you made the right decision in that case?

I think we can all look back on some games and wonder "what if?', but at the end of the day, you showed that you were a good sport. And I'm sure your opponent thinks that too. I've played a lot of guys over the years that have stuck to their guns and really punished a mistake, but you gave the other guy a break, and Nationals or not, that's not a bad thing. If you made it to the final match, I would imagine he would have accepted his fate without question.

Don't beat yourself up over it, buddy. You competed in the New Zealand Nationals, there's an achievement right there.

And lastly, GO THE MIGHTY ALL BLACKS!! We're gonna bring home the Rugby World Cup!