I have been playing X-Wing for nearly a year now. I am not the best player at the game and I do find this game quite difficult. Never the less I still go to comps and I still go to have fun. Yes I want to win but who doesn't want to win a game here and there. I have noticed that over my years of wargaming that X-Wing does have on the whole terrible sportsmanship when it comes to competitions. This maybe a situation or an anomoly in my area/city where the community is very active and big, so I am not saying it is happening everywhere. I am saying that as someone who has played in various comps over the years and has seen a wide avariety of players and rulesets and games that X-Wing does not do a good job of fostering sportsmanship in the same way as other games do or attempt to.

My first comp was a regionls and I found it to be fun in terms of finally getting out there and playing in a comp with mates, and playing 5 games aginst 5 different people that I never knew. I however was disgusted by how cutthroat people were willing to go to trample over a new player in an effort to win or make the cut. I know that as veteran in other games that the new players are the ones that will keep the game growing and also keeping a community expanding. Without new players any game is destined to eventually die. I have played in other comps and I have witnessed first hand incidents of groups of players ganging up on new players and even ganging up on TO's in their own stores in their efforts to persue a win or to make it to the cut or have the comp run the way they like it.

I have seen what sportsmanship can achieve; it can make a game more enjoyable to play for everyone and make comps at all levels less intimidating for everyone regardless of wether you are an old player or a new player or someone who plays once in a blue moon. I have seen what poor sportsmanship does and in X-Wing a lot of bad habits I have seen in Magic for example are coming out into X-Wing and really causing people to avoid going to competitions or even stop playing all together. It is now what any game deserves especially with the numbers of comps that happen every year and the number of people that play it.

Yes everyone ultimately wants to win, however there are different levels of it. I however believe that competitons should have some form of Sportsmanship score to encourage better player conduct. The attitude of 'I must win at all costs and if I loose I am leaving the comp' has to stop in my view; it will kill enthusiasim and the game in certain areas but it will also leave a bad taste in people's mouths. I personally believe how you win matters more than winning itself; I'd rather win and give my opponent a good experience than mercilessly beating him and then leaving them to wallow in the corner having a bad experience.

So ultimately it was a rant and a bit of a vent. I will still go to comps. I do not do very well but then again I do care if my opponent has a good game. I am interested how other people feel? Does X-Wing need Sportsmanship Scoring in comps? Do we need a system of enforceable rules to keep this kind of behaviour in check?

I'm sorry to hear about your bad experiences. I've played lots at lots of tourneys, and the only poor sport I faced was at a Regional (and a playtester to boot). Everyone else has been a good sport, even as we both being competitive (some more than others).

This game has a very set order of how the turns play out and when you do your actions/moves. Not sure how vets can "trample" a newer player other than bringing a better list and more experience to the table.

Sportsmanship DOES NOT equal bringing softer lists to make a competitive event fun for everyone. Discouraging WAAC? In a tournament? Get over yourself and leave the high horse at home. If I'm showing at a tournament and paying the entry fee I'm doing everything in my power to win. No "take backsies" if you forgot to focus, forgot your Isard trigger, etc. I'm going to be respectful and polite to you, and say "okay start of the combat phase" instead of going right into my shooting (since that is a relevant timing issue) but I'm not going to hamstring my list to make sure you have a good day...

I'm really not sure what you mean by vets "ganging up" on TOs or new players...like legitimately confused here. Rules are rules, there's nothing a player can do, no matter how experienced, to change what the rulebook/FAQ says. Also not sure what you mean by trampling...

If I'm showing at a tournament and paying the entry fee I'm doing everything in my power to win. No "take backsies" if you forgot to focus, forgot your Isard trigger, etc.

Well, some of will let that happen the first time it's missed. Larger events (and things in general) can make things hectic at first until the players settle in. All depends on the player and attitude.

It was a Regional. You really expect people to pull punches at one of the most important tournaments of the year?

Also, sportsmanship scores are one of the worst ideas on the face of the earth. They achieve nothing except letting friends boost each other's scores, and letting people who lose games be extremely spiteful against their opponent. Horrible, horrible idea.

At my first tournament I went to, and the closest official Store Tournament and that was over 2 hours from home, I was entirely demolished. Utterly destroyed by every list I came up against. Were they better than me? Probably. Did they have the opportunity to play more matches day-to-day than I did, coming from a smaller town with very few players? Absolutely. Was anyone malicious about it, or engaged in "screw the newb"? No, not one. They were all generous, helpful, offered some great list suggestions for me for the future, and even pooled some of the spare prizes to give me a consolation prize for driving the farthest and getting entirely demolished.

So, no.

Besides, like DR4CO said, it's a Regionals. I'd never expect anyone to do anything except shove their A-Game in my face the entire day and see if I can survive it. If your first tournament was a Regionals, that's a pretty rough place to start. Get play time in some local store tournaments under your belt before you start decrying the entire community.

Yeah, this thread isn't going to end well.

I am going to say that your experience isn't normal. And you may have misinterpreted things.

It was a Regional. You really expect people to pull punches at one of the most important tournaments of the year?

Also, sportsmanship scores are one of the worst ideas on the face of the earth. They achieve nothing except letting friends boost each other's scores, and letting people who lose games be extremely spiteful against their opponent. Horrible, horrible idea.

Indeed, exactly the reason why we did away with them at GW tournys in the early 2000s... didn't really serve any purpose other than to hold people to ransom over them or be spiteful if you lost and didn't like it.

Competitions are competitions at the end of the day, cant help feeling the OP would probably get more enjoyment out of more casual games?

I know i don't play in tournys, not because im not a good player (i can get wins and draws now and then against friends who win tournys), but because i just prefer a more relaxed game.

Nowt wrong with either play style but you've got to expect people to be less forgiving is they have paid money to enter and a prize is at stake.

edit: From past experience as a TO and referee at countles wargames events, your best bet if you think someone is trying to 'trample' you is to ask a referee to watch part of the game. If someone is hurrying you or rushing you to make bad decisions they may be able to have a quiet word but they do have to see it, they cant just take your word for it.

Poor behavior DOES exist in tournament play and no one should deny it's existence. I have met and played against these hyper-competitive players and it can detract from what is otherwise an enjoyable experience. As long as my opponent is respectful, that's fine. Assume a confrontational alpha-male attitude and you've crossed a line that's completely unacceptable.

Yes it does exist. But, not nearly to the extent that the original poster is implying.

It was a Regional. You really expect people to pull punches at one of the most important tournaments of the year

See this is where I think sportsmanship is *most* important. Anyone can fly casual when nothing is on the line, it is when a person is 6 games into a regional and their near mentally exhausted opponent forgets to place Focus token when it is clear that is what they meant to do, that is when quality of a player's sportsmanship and fly casual is tested.

You shouldn't expect people to go soft on you at regionals : /

That's not poor sportsmanship. It's just weird expectations.

Some of my most enjoyable X-wing experienced were people mercilessly crushing a list I worked on for a week 100-0. If you don't enjoy that then don't go to competitive events.

It was a Regional. You really expect people to pull punches at one of the most important tournaments of the year

See this is where I think sportsmanship is *most* important. Anyone can fly casual when nothing is on the line, it is when a person is 6 games into a regional and their near mentally exhausted opponent forgets to place Focus token when it is clear that is what they meant to do, that is when quality of a player's sportsmanship and fly casual is tested.

I think the real sportsmanship is accepting your mistakes and not putting the other player in the position of having to say no when you ask for a takeback.

It was a Regional. You really expect people to pull punches at one of the most important tournaments of the year

See this is where I think sportsmanship is *most* important. Anyone can fly casual when nothing is on the line, it is when a person is 6 games into a regional and their near mentally exhausted opponent forgets to place Focus token when it is clear that is what they meant to do, that is when quality of a player's sportsmanship and fly casual is tested.

Regionals is also NOT the place to be taught the game. There is a reasonable expectation for your opponent to have a decent competetency in the game.

I think the best thing to do at tournaments is to remember to have thick skin, don't let other players bother you so much. Opponent hurrying the match along too fast for you to properly pick a manuever? Slow the pace down yourself (remember yourself to be reasonable) and if they complain, oh well too bad, remember at a tourney might not be the best place to make a new friend, save that for casual play. Your opponent being a jerk? Let them know their a jerk, but the best remedy is to better yourself and beat them.....nothing more satisfying than taking down an opponent that you don't see eye to eye with.

So. People play X-wing. Competition brings out the worst in some people. Same as in every other facet of life. It doesn't make it cool, or right, but it is going to be there. The best thing you can do, imo, is accept that everyone has the potential to be that way and try to not be hyper-competitive/WAAC yourself. Other than that, what can you do?

I have seen it go both ways.

During a Store Championship I witnessed one player allow another to completely change all of his movement dials because the guy was a "new player" and misunderstood some of the basic rules.

However in the same tournament during the fourth round my opponent flew off the board and demanded that the mat be measured. Stating that the game would be null and void if the mat wasn't exactly 3x3 because the rules state the game must be played on a 3x3.

The bottom line some people are nice some people are jerks.

Follow the Fezzik.

Or else.

Things.

Of an unpleasant and ambiguous nature.

"My first comp was a regionls and I found it to be fun in terms of finally getting out there and playing in a comp with mates, and playing 5 games aginst 5 different people that I never knew. I however was disgusted by how cutthroat people were willing to go to trample over a new player in an effort to win or make the cut. I know that as veteran in other games that the new players are the ones that will keep the game growing and also keeping a community expanding. Without new players any game is destined to eventually die. I have played in other comps and I have witnessed first hand incidents of groups of players ganging up on new players and even ganging up on TO's in their own stores in their efforts to persue a win or to make it to the cut or have the comp run the way they like it. "

Your first mistake was playing your first tournament at a regionals event. This is considered a premiere level event: You are expected to be competent-no, a veteran at the rules of the game, and the opponent has every right(and, make no mistake, the rules specifically say they are 100% in the right to do so) to deny you that missed focus action because you werent paying attention or because you weren't practiced at the game. The rules basically spell out "There are no new players at this event. No prisoners, no mercy. Good luck pilots." Significant prizes and glory is on the line, and you're expected to bring your A-Game. If you can't do that, you shouldn't attend a regionals. Full Stop.

Tournaments are not for the weak of heart. If you expect your opponent, that you yourself said had no idea who you are, to go easy on you in a premiere tournament where the end goal is a ticket to nationals, because you're new at the game, you're dead wrong. If you dont like that, don't go to regionals. Stay at your store, and play casual there where missed opportunities are not enforced by the rules.

My first tournament, I went in and played some close games, but lost them all and got clobbered 200-0 in one. I did not expect mercy, especially when MOV can make the difference in the outcome. My last tournament, I flew really well and beat my opponent in 25 minutes 200-0. I didnt feel bad because I simply flew my best and had no way of knowing that he was as inexperienced as he was. I knew he was relatively new, but there was no way I could have played much differently without allowing him the chance to beat me. We chatted after and he told me about his college classes and that he appreciated playing. No hard feelings, just his desire to learn.

I am going to say that your experience isn't normal.

I'd agree, except that after reading the OP twice it's not even clear what the experience was. Some things happened and they were bad, but what exactly were those things? Who was ganging up on whom, and in order to accomplish what?

Troll post?

People need to remember they aren't playing for money, they aren't playing for valuable prizes, they aren't playing for international fame and recognition.

These games of toy spaceships are not important. Winning is not important. Even the final game at the top table of the World Championships is not important.

Being nice to your opponent is important.

It's up to the individual to decide what being nice means, but it's important to be honest to yourself about it.

To the OP,

There are good players and bad players. Many in x-wing follow the mantra "Fly Casual", which in essence means to remember it is still a just a game. I have had good experiences and bad experiences from tournament play, but they have all been learning experiences.

My first store tournament I came in dead last. I made maneuvering mistakes a plenty and got "hot defence diced" by one opponent.

In another, I had a ship fly off the table from my mistaking a red 4 straight for a K turn and having to live with it.

In my first Regionals, I had my second round player not place his dial for his Falcon. He had initiative and moved his two B-wings first and then I went to move my ships and saw that Han was missing his dial. My opponent then realized his mistake. I called over the T.O. and explained the situation and the T.O. read out the rule (which I knew but I wanted the player to hear so he knew I wasn't trying to be a d-bag but it was how it was supposed to play out). 2/3rds of the dial was a maneuver that would send Han off the mat as he was kitting and that close to the board edge. I picked a maneuver that did send Han off the mat but I told my opponent to try and not be discouraged from playing x-wing from such an experience. It happens and it is one of those things where you will learn from it and never repeat. Mistakes are what you learn from.

There will be personal conflicts that arise in any head to head game. Competition brings out the best and worst in people but it depends on the person you are playing. If you have gotten more fun players over d-bag players it is because this community tries to remember to fly casual, but they aren't obligated to.

When playing any Premier level event you will face players that are better at the game than you. You can beat them but you will need to know your stuff inside and out to do it. That is what they are expecting from you. You will also meet players who are not so good at the game than you. Some players will recognize it and lighten up a bit by pointing some stuff out but some players will capitalize on your mistakes because that is the mind-frame in a Premier tournament. They don't know if it is a mental slip, a feint or a weird tactic being employed against them but they will respond to win because it is in their favour to do so just as it is in your favour to play as best as you can with the ships you are flying.

If you were playing against the next possible World Champion in x-wing and they forgot to take a focus action action at a crucial time, would you let them take it or would you think it was a mistake and try to use it to your advantage? It probably wouldn't matter in a pickup game, but in a Regional the outcome matters more. The level of play sets the competitiveness level but try not to be discouraged if players bring their A-game. They are supposed to and so are you.

I have been playing X-Wing for nearly a year now. I am not the best player at the game and I do find this game quite difficult. Never the less I still go to comps and I still go to have fun. Yes I want to win but who doesn't want to win a game here and there. I have noticed that over my years of wargaming that X-Wing does have on the whole terrible sportsmanship when it comes to competitions. This maybe a situation or an anomoly in my area/city where the community is very active and big, so I am not saying it is happening everywhere. I am saying that as someone who has played in various comps over the years and has seen a wide avariety of players and rulesets and games that X-Wing does not do a good job of fostering sportsmanship in the same way as other games do or attempt to.

Personally; every event I've been to in my area has been full of great people. Some people maybe a little more lacking in social skills than others but no one who's ever been an outright d**k. The closest I've got to a tournament breakdown was at an FLGS tourney when some guy who wasn't playing came downstairs and decided to start pointing out my trap to my opponent whilst we were on the top table. Still; it must be a bit crap having negative experiences at events so frequently and it's a shame to hear about areas that don't fly casual. Perhaps worth buying some ear plugs?