I think the "prize sniping" thing is something that people need to get over. It's just competition, and at the very least, you'll learn from it. I also think it's poor spirited to presume and then condemn someone's intention for travelling to compete. There are people that can do it for multiple reasons: love of the game, like competing (and winning) and to meet new people/learn new metas.

Additionally, I think there's no great way to define it. I work very near my local game FLGS and in fact I go there about 2-3 times a week during my lunch breaks to shoot the breeze with the owner, buy stuff etc. But, being married and having several properties to look over, I don't get much (if any) time, to game there. Thus, many people that game there would not consider me a regular, because they never see me. The owner would, though; I spend a lot of money at his store. I placed first at our MoS tournamet. To the guys I played against, it probably looked like I was prize sniping, because they had never seen me before. I had no idea what the local "meta" looked like (only the meta that goes on in my house on Thursday night when I play against my buddy). Do you think they had any grumbling about me showing up and snaking top prize away from there? If so, do you think they were justified in feeling that way? (I'm not asking that rhetorically, I genuinely curious what people would think about it).

From your perspective:

-You play Armada at FLGS and have built up a base of 4-8 people whom you play against fairly regularly.

-Tournament day, a stranger shows up who you haven't seen.

-He wins the tournie.

-You don't see or play him again until next tournie.

-What you don't know is that he's a local and frequent patron of the same store you play at.

So, what do you think? Is there a justified grievance?

As far as I'm concerned, (and I run what passes for the Armara scene at my FLGS) if you show up for tournaments on the regular, you're part of my community.

If, OTOH, you drove a great distance to participate in Massing at Sullest, and never set foot in my store before, or will again after, (at least, until the next preview event) then you have removed somthing from my local gaming community. I will not be pleased. I wanted to see those ships on the table next week.

Maybe they just like playing in tournaments? There are many game stores in Houston I don't go to except for tournaments.

I think the "prize sniping" thing is something that people need to get over. It's just competition, and at the very least, you'll learn from it. I also think it's poor spirited to presume and then condemn someone's intention for travelling to compete. There are people that can do it for multiple reasons: love of the game, like competing (and winning) and to meet new people/learn new metas.

Additionally, I think there's no great way to define it. I work very near my local game FLGS and in fact I go there about 2-3 times a week during my lunch breaks to shoot the breeze with the owner, buy stuff etc. But, being married and having several properties to look over, I don't get much (if any) time, to game there. Thus, many people that game there would not consider me a regular, because they never see me. The owner would, though; I spend a lot of money at his store. I placed first at our MoS tournamet. To the guys I played against, it probably looked like I was prize sniping, because they had never seen me before. I had no idea what the local "meta" looked like (only the meta that goes on in my house on Thursday night when I play against my buddy). Do you think they had any grumbling about me showing up and snaking top prize away from there? If so, do you think they were justified in feeling that way? (I'm not asking that rhetorically, I genuinely curious what people would think about it).

From your perspective:

-You play Armada at FLGS and have built up a base of 4-8 people whom you play against fairly regularly.

-Tournament day, a stranger shows up who you haven't seen.

-He wins the tournie.

-You don't see or play him again until next tournie.

-What you don't know is that he's a local and frequent patron of the same store you play at.

So, what do you think? Is there a justified grievance?

As far as I'm concerned, (and I run what passes for the Armara scene at my FLGS) if you show up for tournaments on the regular, you're part of my community.

If, OTOH, you drove a great distance to participate in Massing at Sullest, and never set foot in my store before, or will again after, (at least, until the next preview event) then you have removed somthing from my local gaming community. I will not be pleased. I wanted to see those ships on the table next week.

Maybe they just like playing in tournaments? There are many game stores in Houston I don't go to except for tournaments.

Due to my schedule I rarely make it to my local play groups except for tournaments. I work overnights, and take care of my infant daughter during the day while mom works. I could probably squeeze more time at the shops - but that means I'm losing valuable time either sleeping, or with the family. Tournaments are an exception because they aren't every week.

I invite friends over to play decently frequently, but that cuts out travel time, and allows me to watch the kiddo.

I think that labeling people as prize snipers is something we should be very careful about. If they pay any relevant costs, then the more players a tournament has, the better for the game store.

As far as I'm concerned, (and I run what passes for the Armara scene at my FLGS) if you show up for tournaments on the regular, you're part of my community.

If, OTOH, you drove a great distance to participate in Massing at Sullest, and never set foot in my store before, or will again after, (at least, until the next preview event) then you have removed somthing from my local gaming community. I will not be pleased. I wanted to see those ships on the table next week.

Socially: How do you expect to have a community if you don't welcome new members? If people are traveling for Sullust perhaps if you were nice they'd travel more often.

Competitiveness: He comes and pays his money. If he wins he has taught you community how to play better. Being the biggest fish in a little pond is not something to aspire to, learn to play better, visit HIS events and grow the two communities. Sitting there and typing "Whaaa we wants our prizes and the nasty big man took them from us" is not a good competitive attitude. If you can be bothered to put in the time and effort to become better, trust me, he will come back and take your prizes next time. Highly competitive players will just smell blood in such an environment

All in I I find the idea that we compete for prizes but some one that wins them is held to be smaller for that is a deplorable attitude both socially and competitively.

I agree with the above. This thread is full of examples of why i hate people being described as "prize snipers".

They are entitled to play, same as anyone else if it's a public event

They paid the same as everyone else.

They follow the same rules as everyone else.

They probably travelled a lot further than everyone else.

They are playing the same game, and probably because they enjoy playing it. If you dont want them to win....learn from why they beat you and play better next time.

In absolutely no way is it unfair for "outsiders" to come in and be better than the local clique. It's a positive thing if people sit down and learn from it.

The OPs situation where it was only the TO and 1 outside player is different, but still not the players fault if there was no collusion between him and the TO. He was probably not aware there would be no other players!

Okay, i think the original post highlighted the 'prize sniping' as more of a supporting point to the fact that the MoS event was mismanaged.

So veering back on course here, it was a shame that your community did not get the MoS they deserved, please make sure you TO gets your feedback so they are aware of the community's dissatisfaction of the lack of notification and a process of decision making that did not meet the needs of the community.

Let me see if I understand this:

People are upset that "outsiders" come into their turf to steal their prizes?

Let me see if I understand this:

People are upset that "outsiders" come into their turf to steal their prizes?

Sounds like there is a "gamers union" out there somewhere with how some people view this prize situation.

Apparently the ownership of those prizes have already been determined and woe to anyone from outside the gamers Union that dares compete for those prizes!

This happens in Magic all the time. People travel to the events. The store I used to go to had plenty of people come in from other areas of the state. It just happens. We only saw those players when there were tournaments with prize support. We jokingly called them sharks, but they were all pretty cool people, and it helped strengthen the community as a whole. fun fact. They didn't always win too.

The issue I see here is that the ships aren't out for sale yet. People wanted them, didn't get them, and won't be seeing them in their local meta until release; this leads to resentment. This will all be moot in another week or two.

Let me see if I understand this:

People are upset that "outsiders" come into their turf to steal their prizes?

Actually no, we're upset because the date was changed with 1 days notice.

It then just so happened that no locals were able to attend, the prizes were then split between someone from far out-of-town and the TO.

As such, we've never seen the new ships in our area, but yes in a few weeks it won't matter. It was frustrating because we are trying to build a larger armada community, and as word of this fiasco has spread its possibly turned some prospective players off.

Let me see if I understand this:

People are upset that "outsiders" come into their turf to steal their prizes?

Actually no, we're upset because the date was changed with 1 days notice.

It then just so happened that no locals were able to attend, the prizes were then split between someone from far out-of-town and the TO.

As such, we've never seen the new ships in our area, but yes in a few weeks it won't matter. It was frustrating because we are trying to build a larger armada community, and as word of this fiasco has spread its possibly turned some prospective players off.

Ok, but that's the fault of the TO/store.

The outside player has zero bearing on this.

I would be ticked off at the store/to as well. I just see no reason to be upset with the outside player however.

It then just so happened that no locals were able to attend...

Did they address this with the TO before the event?

It then just so happened that no locals were able to attend...

Did they address this with the TO before the event?

Why? up until the day before there was no reason to believe the event would be changed.

But the timing of the event was changed, so the expectation here was changed, emergencies that call you away from work often don't give notice or leave you with a clear mind. The lack of empathy and compassion you are showing your TO here is a worry, you are wanting him to have prioritised man toys over real life problems.

So after the change in time, did the players tell the TO they could have participated on the Friday but not the Sunday? If they didn't, then could it be he was expecting 4-6 players and when only 1 showed up he had to make good a bad situation?

Your words are we want to have and build a community but your actions are destroying the very community you want. Both the TO and the store are parts of your community, Quite frankly no one in your community is winning here, this has become a loss/loss.

As far as I'm concerned, (and I run what passes for the Armara scene at my FLGS) if you show up for tournaments on the regular, you're part of my community.

If, OTOH, you drove a great distance to participate in Massing at Sullest, and never set foot in my store before, or will again after, (at least, until the next preview event) then you have removed somthing from my local gaming community. I will not be pleased. I wanted to see those ships on the table next week.

Maybe they just like playing in tournaments? There are many game stores in Houston I don't go to except for tournaments.

Like I said: If you show up to the tournaments, then you're part of my community. My objection is to people who show up for just one tourny, and that's the one with valuable prizes. That guy isn't here for the game. He's here to save money, (which I sympathize with) and remove an asset from my local tournaments. If this just so happens to be his first tourny, and he continues to show up, then that's also not a problem.

As far as I'm concerned, (and I run what passes for the Armara scene at my FLGS) if you show up for tournaments on the regular, you're part of my community.

If, OTOH, you drove a great distance to participate in Massing at Sullest, and never set foot in my store before, or will again after, (at least, until the next preview event) then you have removed somthing from my local gaming community. I will not be pleased. I wanted to see those ships on the table next week.

Socially: How do you expect to have a community if you don't welcome new members? If people are traveling for Sullust perhaps if you were nice they'd travel more often.

Competitiveness: He comes and pays his money. If he wins he has taught you community how to play better. Being the biggest fish in a little pond is not something to aspire to, learn to play better, visit HIS events and grow the two communities. Sitting there and typing "Whaaa we wants our prizes and the nasty big man took them from us" is not a good competitive attitude. If you can be bothered to put in the time and effort to become better, trust me, he will come back and take your prizes next time. Highly competitive players will just smell blood in such an environment

All in I I find the idea that we compete for prizes but some one that wins them is held to be smaller for that is a deplorable attitude both socially and competitively.

I'm happy to welcome new members. I'm not happy for people to visit us just long enough to remove a ship from the local scene.

See, if a regular player wins, I'll be playing against his new ship next week. So will my other players. The local gaming scene has been enriched. When the player who won the ISD never comes back, we lose some of that effect. Sure, in a few months, we'll all have ISDs. But until then, Massing at Sullust offered the chance to liven up the meta a bit.

But the timing of the event was changed, so the expectation here was changed, emergencies that call you away from work often don't give notice or leave you with a clear mind. The lack of empathy and compassion you are showing your TO here is a worry, you are wanting him to have prioritised man toys over real life problems.

So after the change in time, did the players tell the TO they could have participated on the Friday but not the Sunday? If they didn't, then could it be he was expecting 4-6 players and when only 1 showed up he had to make good a bad situation?

Your words are we want to have and build a community but your actions are destroying the very community you want. Both the TO and the store are parts of your community, Quite frankly no one in your community is winning here, this has become a loss/loss.

Once the time had been changed, within hours, 4 players informed the TO they could not make the new date. The other 2 were not aware of the change and showed up for the original date, only to be turned away and told of the change.....which they also could not make.

I agree the end result is a loss/loss, but its no fault of the players. The T.O personal emergency is VERY understandable, but the LGS had other options. I won't say "oh well, stuff happens" when there were obvious better choices.

Well I guess it depends on the actual difference between the TO, the LGS itself and the staff member who split the prizes. Still, whinging about the prizes going to someone outside your clique is wrong. Blaming the new player is wrong and boycotting your LGS is wrong, unless this the latest in a line of bad customer service and dodgy practices.

At face vaue it just seems like a minor (very minor) unfortunate set of circumstances that should be learnt from but moved on from as quickly as possible.

Cheers

Mark

How did you get to 4 MoS events? Did you sleep? In what city do they have 24/7 Armada clubs...because...I want to move there.

3 in Edmonton Friday, Saturday and Sunday....2 and half hours away...very exhausting...and 1 in Calgary the following weekend cause their tournament package was late arriving....and the one coming up this weekend I can't make now cause of football playoffs up here but they have it this late cause the store had 2 kits.

How did you get to 4 MoS events? Did you sleep? In what city do they have 24/7 Armada clubs...because...I want to move there.

3 in Edmonton Friday, Saturday and Sunday....2 and half hours away...very exhausting...and 1 in Calgary the following weekend cause their tournament package was late arriving....and the one coming up this weekend I can't make now cause of football playoffs up here but they have it this late cause the store had 2 kits.

TO CANADA! *swoosh!*

Yep. Hothgary has another Sullust this Weekend.

Sunday 15th, at the Sentry Box (sentrybox.com)

Registration at 11, first game starts at 11:30

... and I get nothing but a reduced chance of winning... But here I am, still Pimpin' the tournament

Oh I dunno, dem November routes down ta' sunny Hothgary sure can make for some hairy situations, eh? I'm dreading a replay of my last attempted excursion down there... But I'll see

Mogrok, then I wouldst know thee!* -laughs- I only got to one of those three, but blast if I didn't even hear about that Friday event. Unless you're really plugged into the gaming community and the game stores in particular, then the Massing confirmations came really-really late. That was my only issue when it came to the whole thing, I/'theoretical we' knew too late. I'd have loved even a week's notice, but 3 days was the longest I had.

*Two and a half hours away from Edmonton, Mogrok, so... I'll hazard a guess and say Red Deer? Or the far-places, IE Lloydminster area?

Olds...perfectly positioned to travel to all, but no one local to game with.

prize sniping happens in every game and is somewhat unavoidable.

stores giving away the TOs "cut" is kinda bull. FFG doesn't have a program in place for community drivers like other companies do where they are reimbursed for their time via product. If the store gave away the TO cut I would expect the TO to receive some kind of compensation. I would also contact FFG and report that store as that's just detrimental to the community if no one wants to run an event anymore.

Sorry I have to call BS on this. The store gave away the TO prize becasue the TO didn't want the prize and wanted to run a better tournament. The TO is the store owner who has enough general knowledge to get a tournament running but he doesn't own the game. He wanted everyone to walk away with a prize, his prize was having people walk away with a favorable view of his store which giving away the squadrons did. I now know 11 people who are skipping the discounts on coolstuff and mini market to buy from his store b/c he is such a cool guy.

This doesn't sound like you are calling BS so much as you are explaining the situation, which is fine.

No need to get uppity, if Berger has incorrect information a simply correction should be fine, no need to "call BS" senen you are really just explaining the reality that he was unaware of.

I don't know how defending my local game store owner makes me "uppity". And btw the word "uppity" has a specific negative connotation and I wouldn't advise you to find different syntax.

btw the term"BS" has negative connotations. I would suggest a different term.

I've played a grand total of 14 games, all of them during tournaments, a total of 5 tournaments in all. (had a bye in one of the tournaments) I have always won tokens, the only time I didn't win anything was at Sullust. The only reason I only play at tournaments, is it just happens that they happen to fall on a day that I can play. Does that make me a prize sniper?

all of these tournaments I play at are spread out across multiple game stores, all of where I'm a regular at (customer not gamer). I don't play Armada on a regular basis with various leagues. And the only time I get to discuss meta, is when I spitball ideas with the guy that got me into Armada to begin with, Dallas Parker. (I heard he's really good at x-wing) Other than that I should be pretty easy to beat considering lack of game time or practice. That being said, if I'm able to win with luck. does the local league have a right to be pissed off at me, even though the store, or fate is not?

That being said, if I'm able to win with luck. does the local league have a right to be pissed off at me, even though the store, or fate is not?

Sure. Everyone is entitled to their opinions.